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Old 04-11-2010, 02:17 PM
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Question Problem w/ KWA SR-10

Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on what may be the problem. I have a KWA SR10 and when I first got it I was having problems with my bbs curving downwards into the ground at about 50 to 75 ft. I adjusted hopup in different positions with no go. I took it to AA where I bought it to have it checked, after dissasembly of hopup and removing any grease or oil from the bucking (warm soapy water), and it began to shoot correctly and I was able to adjust hopup to compensate or barely over compensate bb flight.

I recieved my mags from AA and I had not shot my SR10 for about 2 weeks roughly, I never changed the settings on hopup, it has been sitting in the gun bag in the closet. I went to test out the new mags I got yesterday and I'm having the same problem once again.

Another thing I noticed with it was that when it was working (temporarily) I would have to shoot about 10 to 20 rounds roughly and I could see the bbs flight pattern change from shooting curved down into the ground to a leveling height which is how it should be. I can put the gun away for a few hours shot it again and it would start the process again curving rounds into the ground about 50 to 75 ft and slowly leveling backup to normal. Unfortunately now it isn't doing any leveling what so ever, all shots are curving down at 75ft or so.

It's quite frustrating as I have made 3 or 4 trips for this same related problem to AA on my SR10. And the problem keeps recurring. Is anyone else experiencing any problems with their SR10 regarding to their hopup/bucking? I have had this problem since I took it out of the box (new).

I'd really appreciate any suggestions or help on this so I can forward them to AA. It looks like I'll be making another trip to AA again on Monday. It's so frustrating, I haven't even been to an event with this gun yet and I've been looking forward to it. I hear so many people having a great experience with this rifle, I'm hoping I'll get my chance too... eventually. For now, it looks like I'm gonna have to stick with my Echo1 MP5 Master Series which seems to be working great.

Last edited by Spanishcop; 04-11-2010 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:28 PM
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If I had to guess what would be causing this problem I would go with a mis-aligned bucking. If the bucking is slightly out of place the bb will spin the wrong way coming out of the barrel. It should look like a perfect circle for the bb to rest against.

Could you remove your barrel + hop up and take a picture at the hop up end? (like looking down into the barrel)
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:29 PM
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If you have had the problem since it was new and your warrenty isn't over already, I would give KWA a call and see if they will do anything.

EDIT: If they say they can't do anything which they may not. Do what Ninjafish said.
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:21 PM
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I was talking to a buddy of mine in which he states there may be problem with the H-Nub or the H-Nub being missing. When I opened my SR10 and pulled out the barrel w/ the hopup, the small rubber teeth on the bucking are not pushing down or showing up at all regardless of how high the Hopup is turned up. I looked at some pictures online of the 2G hopup bucking and the small rubber teeth are not showing up whether I roll the hopup to back or forward.

I'm not yet very familiarized with airsoft guns to tinker with them nor feel confortable taking hopup apart to check for the H-Nub. Until someone shows me how it is done. I don't want to take the chance of a spring or something shooting out and not know how to put it back together.

But if this is the problem..... I can't quite understand why it would work temporarily and then quit again.

Do H-NUBs go bad or wear out?

Last edited by Spanishcop; 04-11-2010 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:31 PM
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Here's a pic I found online of the 2G hopup/bucking system on the right. On my bucking I can see there are rubber teeth in the bucking but they are not coming down when Hopup units is increased or decreased.

I'm hoping this is the issue and it is a simple H-Nub problem. Again.... I can't quite understand why it would work temporarily and then quit again if the H-Nub is wore out (if thats possible) or missing.
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Old 04-11-2010, 04:12 PM
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I had a very similar problem like this with my KWA SR10. First of all, if you have the bucking with the teeth, you don't have the "H-Nub". It just comes with a rounded standard nub in the shape of a small cylinder (as shown above).

My problem was a little bit different from yours. At first, the bb's were perfect (once the hop-up was adjusted correctly). As I kept shooting, the bbs' trajectory declined, falling straight to the ground after 50-75 feet as well.

What I did:
On the side of the hop-up unit that contains all of the gears (to turn the hop-up on/off), the largest gear, the one that you physically touch to change the hop-up setting, possesses a small screw in its center. Set the hop-up at its desired setting (however you want it to shoot), and tighten that screw down very tight, being careful not to strip the plastic.

My SR10 has quite a bit of recoil for an AEG that isn't blowback. I can't speak for any others, but mine kicks a bit. This recoil knocks my hop-up gear out of whack, either turning it on more, or off. The tightening of this screw solved my problem completely. Again, be careful not to over-tighten and strip the screw's housing (plastic).

Another issue:

What kind of magazines did you get? I have found that the newer versions of the MAG magazines (Plastic - 100 or 130 round) do not feed well at all in the SR10. The only successful magazines that have fed well for me other than the included hi-cap mag, are MATRIX 68 round magazines from Evike. You can get a 10 pack for, I believe around $70. If you did purchase MAG magazines, try to press the bottom of the mag up into the gun while shooting. See if the result is any better (after tightening the hop-up screw). These mags did not stay in my gun well at all, and holding them on the bottom was mandatory in order for the bb's to feed/feed correctly.


Side Note:
Unfortunately, my gun took approximately 3000-5000 bb's to completely break in the hop-up bucking (rubber sleeve with the teeth). The teeth came crooked and you could still see the rubber shavings on the end of them from the mold. It took a while to break it in. In the end, I just swapped it out for an old, normal KWA bucking that I had bought from their Pro Shop a while back. It worked wonders after about 500 rounds break-in. If the things that I mentioned don't help, try installing a new bucking. The 2GX bucking that came with my SR10 didn't impress me. The normal bucking, with a normal nub, out-performed the 2GX by a far shot. This may just be for me personally. I'm not making any general statement about most, or all of the SR10's. Just my experience.

Hope this helps! PM me or reply with any questions. Keep us posted on what happens.

Last edited by Slick; 04-11-2010 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 04-11-2010, 05:45 PM
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I can almost guarantee that your missing your nub.....
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK View Post
I can almost guarantee that your missing your nub.....
...or you did indeed install a H-Nub, which will not work with a 2G Bucking. You need to use the standard stock Nub with the KWA 2G Bucking.
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWolf View Post
...or you did indeed install a H-Nub, which will not work with a 2G Bucking. You need to use the standard stock Nub with the KWA 2G Bucking.
I take it you agree lol.
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:36 PM
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IIRC, I read somewhere that the H-nub will not work with the Gen2 bucking, because the whole point of the Gen2 bucking is that it accomplishes the same function as the H-nub, but better, and with a regular nub.
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:36 PM
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Just bought the SR-10 i personaly have had no problem with mine,but yes i think HK is right about the nub.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:46 PM
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I was referring to the standard nub. I thought they were all called h-nub... Buts I'm new at the terminology. Mine comes with the rubber teeth (2G) I think it's called. Anyways... I can see the teeth in there but nothing is bringing them down when I increase hopup. So I'll assume that's the problem. I'll take it down mon or tues. I'll keep ya posted on this.

Can the nub fall out on it's own, or is it maybe it wasn't installed when hopup was put back together?
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanishcop View Post
Can the nub fall out on it's own, or is it maybe it wasn't installed when hopup was put back together?
Its not unusual for them to come loose or get lost. I prefer to add a drop of crazy glue to keep em in.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:52 PM
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That sounds like a good idea, thanks for the tip
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:34 AM
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Here is a link to KWA's forum that provides the breakdown of the hopup. I figured I would share with the rest of you, for those that may be fairly new to t his sport and may feel uncomfortable about taking the hopup unit apart.

It really was not that bad, I was afraid there would of maybe been hidden springs jumping out and so forth and not know where they would go afterwards. The breakdown of the hopup was like I said very simple.

Here is a guide with detailed pictures to the procedure.

http://www.kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=493

After following this procedure..... the Nub is missing. HK you were right on the money. Thank you for your help buddy. I'll be picking up a new one today. I'm hoping this will solve my problems and I can enjoy my gun.

I'm going to BS and VC next weekend, I'm hoping my SR10 will be ready to go for it.

I will post updates once I Nub is installed to see if there is any other issues (hopefully not). Thanks again for everyone's assistance on this.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:04 AM
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When you replace the nub, instead of superglue (which can work, but you can't mess it up when you apply the nub), I sometimes use a little bit of grease on the nub to keep it in place when putting everything back together. It's enough to keep the nub from moving when putting the hopup chamber back on the barrel, and the grease never touches the inside of the bucking.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:35 AM
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From a very well done review of the 2G bucking, the tests show that the standrd nub works better than the H nub. Also, what magazines are you using. I had a problem with MAG brand mags. It was not the same problem but it could be causing it. Try using your HiCap that comes with the gun (if bought new). I have S-Arms mags that you can try if you come to Valley Creek the 18th. If the mags are not your problem, I'm at a loss. Hope this helps!
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:53 PM
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I got 120rnd king mags I believe it is... They fit perfect. It's not the mags... I just got the mags and I've been using the high cap on it until a couple days ago. I will have the nub on in a bit... But I'm still puzzled about having to shoot about 15 to 20 rounds roughly to get bbs to level up. Then the gun starts shooting properly again. Anyways... I'll update shortly.
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:16 PM
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Try loading your magazines with less bbs. The spring might have too much tension. Just some small fixes that might work. Won't hurt to try it.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:52 PM
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Fixed the nub issue

I put the nub that was missing and hopup is working again. I still haven't checked to see if it is still doing the bb climb for the first 20 rounds or so... I'll provide update on that soon.

Last edited by Spanishcop; 04-15-2010 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:59 AM
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I tested the BB climb issue and it is still doing it. I'm waiting to see what KWA has to say about it. I'm still very pleased with AA's customer service. They have been extremely helpful and understanting about these problems and have done everything possible to exceed customer service expectations.
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Old 05-21-2010, 02:12 PM
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Kwa fixed and working great

I GOT MY KWA BACK....
Just wanted to share with you guys some information on this problem.

I have attached the response from KWA on what they found to be the issues... I have added some comments with it.
I personally don't think these were the exact issues, as I believe we had attempted many if not all of these things with my Old SR10 before it was exchanged for the new one.

Moving on with KWA's Reply:

Quote:
NOTE:

======

NO MAGAZINE RCVD. WITH RIFLE

RCVD. WITH AFTERMARKET FLASH HIDER INSTALLED

RELATED THREAD: http://www.kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2563

CONDUCT COMPLETE PHYSICAL INSPECTION ON THE GUN, SPECIFICALLY HOPUP UNIT, CHAMBER, AND CHAMBER PARTS IN RELATION TO THE BARREL ASSEMBLY.


1. BARREL RETENTION C-CLIP SHOWS DAMAGE- THIS CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO MANY FACTORS, GENERALLY IS THE IMPROPER DISASSEMBLY OF THE BARREL OR INSTALLATION OF ANY INCOMPATIBLE BARREL ATTACHMENTS.
I did send a reply further explaining.... I was very careful removing the orange tip, and I followed the steps indicated on their website at: http://www.kwausa.com/support/index....wnews&newsid=7 The tip came off very easy and without any troubles. I'm not sure how else this C-Clip might have broke, but ok.

Quote:
-2. HOPUP BUCKING INSPECTION, STILL HAS FACTORY GREASE SOAKED IN.
Given this rifle apparently needed further break in... I did shoot numerous mags in this and the problem persisted. Now...KEEPING MIN MIND... that the SR10 I had originally had been shot about 4000-5000 rounds, the hopup taken apart and cleaned, bucking degreased in luke warm soapy water by a store rep, this did not fix the problem. I was still having issues with hopup and with having to fire 20 rounds to get BBs to fly in a straight path as they should. This problem would happen every time the gun was not used for a period of time of about 1 to 2 hrs. NOTE... this problem happened with 2 other brand new SR10s that were tested. Now there was a KWA MK4A1 that was tested and did not do this, just the SR10's. The rifle I shots soo many rounds through was politely exchanged by the retail store for a new one... which explains why there was probably not as many rounds put through the one I sent to KWA with the same issue.

Quote:
3. BARREL SHOWS SIGNS OF GREASE INSIDE. CLEANED OUT W/ FRESH COTTON PATCH.
Pretty much same as stated above... the employee cleaned the barrel several times to ensure it was clean and rifle still had issues.

Quote:
ASSESSMENT: GUN IS STILL BRAND NEW, THE FACTORY GREASE IS STILL ON CERTAIN PARTS OF THE GUN THAT REQUIRE FRICTION TO MANAGE FUNCTION. THE GREASE MUST BE CLEANED OUT (OR SHOT OUT) BEFORE PERFORMANCE WILL STABILIZE. THIS IS KNOWN AS THE "BREAK IN" PERIOD. NOT ALL GUNS HAVE A "BREAK-IN" PERIOD, HOWEVER MANY DO. A MAJORITY OF THE GUN HAS BEEN CLEARED OUT OR WIPED DOWN TO MINIMIZE THE GREASE.

-PROBLEM DESCRIPTION OF 20-30 ROUNDS PRIOR TO STABILIZING BEFORE SUBMITTING THIS GUN FOR RMA MAY BE RELATED TO THE MAGAZINE. TOP OF THE HOPUP CHAMBER SHOWS WAX MARKS WHICH MAY BE RELATED TO THE BBS USED OR NON-FACTORY MAGAZINES, AS DESCRIBED IN THE THREAD. CERTAIN BBS HAVE A WAXY COATING THAT CAN DEFLECT THE FRICTION NECESSARY FOR HOPUP TO OCCUR. LIKEWISE, MANY MAGAZINES ARE PACKED WITH A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LUBRICANT INSIDE (FOR MISC REASONS).
Now this was my MAIN PROBLEM I was having...... I don't think it was the magazine as KWA High Cap that was included with my rifle seated well and not only this magazine...but the "4 RIFLES" tested had also been tested with MAG Magazines and King Arms Magazines. Also the BBS used were KSC Perfect .20 and .25 BBs.... So I'm not sold exactly on this being the problem.

Quote:
OBSERVATION - THE ATTACHED MUZZLE BREAK HAS AN EXTREMELY SMALL EXIT DIAMETER THAT MAY CHIP, STOP, OR OTHERWISE AFFECT THE DESIRED ACCURACY OF THE GUN. AN OPEN FRONT IS RECOMMENDED FOR THE BEST PERFORMANCE.
This muzzle break installed has an opening big enough for the barrel to fit in. It now has a Madbull 6.01mm 455mm which carries the barrel through the muzzle break and stops at about 1/4inch from the end of the muzzle flash. Should not be a problem.

Quote:
PARTS REPLACED:

#2, BARREL RETENTION CLAMP

TESTED TO 800RDS @ APPX 400+ FPS W/ KWA BRAND 0.20G BB'S

I have received several PM's from individuals stating they have been having issues with their recent purchase of the KWA SR10s and were wanting to know what the problem was or if I had figured it out. The only thing I can say....is do everything it says above...and if that doesn't fix the problem...... Send it off to KWA.

I have to say...... KWA's customer service was outstanding and I kept in contact with a specific customer service rep by email. KWA stands behind their product and I'm very impressed with how well they treated me and the gun.

FINAL NOTE: My KWA SR10 is performing unbelievably. As soon as I got the gun out of the box from KWA... I put the Battery in and loaded up some King Arms magazines and tried it. The gun was awesome. The very first BB all the way until I went empty flight pattern was PERFECT. The rifle for some reason sounds much better when I fire and the trigger pull seems to have quicker response.

Cant wait to take it out on the field.

Last edited by Spanishcop; 05-21-2010 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 05-21-2010, 04:01 PM
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Glad to hear your problems were resolved. Red assured me KWA was a top notch company when I purchased mine back in March, so I'm happy to see them stand by their product after the sale. I have yet to experience any issues with mine other than a few bb's left in my MAG mid caps from time to time, although I haven't upgraded anything either. Last week in Springfield my hop up appeared to finally be broken in after roughly 4000 rounds, so I'm hoping mine holds out. Anyway, Congrats and I'd love to check out your upgrades at an event in the future.
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Old 05-21-2010, 04:50 PM
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Glad you got this worked out. I wish I'd have seen this earlier.

I know that this issue seems to be hop-up related, but it may not have been. It may be a compression issue. Did you chrono the gun to see if fps was consistant? Sometimes this issue can be due to inconsistant compression, causing inconsistant trajectory. This is usually a matter of too much, or too little, lube in the cylinder/piston head interface. I guess it's a moot point now, but for future reference it's a good thing to check.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:41 PM
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This really doesn't apply to you now because your problem was different and you got it all fixed up, but I agree with Crisis. When I first got my KWA the first 20-30 shots would curve down after about 60-70 feet and it was because I would load my 100 round MAGs to full capacity. So I had to start loading them to about 60-70 so that it would shoot straight. Also in the winter I noticed that my bb's would curve down until I shot about 50 rounds with any of my magazines, I'm guessing that the bucking or the grease on it was cold and it had to be warmed up. So depending on how long ago you had these problems that might have caused part of it. But it seems like I had almost the exact same issues.
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