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  #176  
Old 06-23-2011, 03:24 PM
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Assuming this is already a little late here in the thread, ROF really isn't too much of a huge deal because that wastes BB's quicker than a lower one. You have the same amount of ammo either way, so if the ROF is higher, you just have to conserve your ammo or use it sparingly. The problem I see is that "calling hits" and "not calling" hits is always a larger problem, which in turn results to the bastard FPS kids, or the bastard ROF kids. We've all done it before, and at any MILSIM standpoint, ROF shouldn't matter.

Everyone here knows that lighter and heavier bolts in the term.."Real Steel?" achieve the different ROF someone is looking for. If someone wants a higher one for a certain situation, they drop in a new bolt and head off.

As for the ammo limits, it sounds like a good idea, but the problem is checking for loose BBs and playing the Honor Game of friends bringing in Hi-Caps and Drum Mags to "piss off" the Visiting players on your field. (You being the owner of the field, and friends being yours of course) I've seen many higher, more prestigious teams "cheat" or "mess with" new kids just because it is fun.For Example, I was stuck with 9 kids on a squad during a weekly match, when the other squad was ALL veterans. Either they know I'm good at teaching kids, or they just want to be with their friends and have fun. Does it make the game MILSIM? No. Is it fun? Yes.

I've personally used 15,000 rounds in a day just because it was fun. (And I have an M4.)

Blade, I don't personally know you, but ROF doesn't seem to be the problem to me. It's Honesty.
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  #177  
Old 06-28-2011, 07:51 PM
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Flenner, I think we can all agree that honesty can be a major component into the equation but at the end of the day, we all know not all players are honest and not all players care about the other players in the field. Some play for fun, some play to relax, some play to teach and share with other players and some just play to win. Mix all these players together and you get a nice mixture of good, bad and ugly.

That being said, tactically speaking, it is true that using ROF is a very poor choice knowing that you will run out of bbs and have to reload much quicker than the other guy shooting semi only. I think we are all clear on that. The main problem here is not the tactical aspect of the high ROF, it is the fact that while Edward shot one bb at his opponent and got him killed on the first shot, his opponent, BOB, emptied 200 rds in the same time frame, which dug a hole in Robert's arm.

Have you ever notice what a drop of water can do into the dirt if it always drop at the same place for hours? Well, imagine the same results but speed things up a little. Let say 20 drops a second. How fast will you dig into the ground? THAT is the problem with high ROF; Safety. Everything else is pretty much details. Safety issue will be dealt differently depending on who is holding the high ROF weapon. The guy playing to teach and show will most likely go for semi only while the guy playing to win will always go to the extreme either by using the highest capacity magazine, the highest FPS or the highest ROF.

So at the end, I totally agree, the ROF is not the problem, it is the players. How can you fix the players? How long have we been trying to fix the players? which option is easier? Why some states are banning real steel instead of getting rid of the criminals? afterall, the gun are not the problem, it is the criminal. isn't it?
The majority will always pay for the minority screwing around...unfortunately.

That being said, we tried burst last weekend (not allowing full auto) and it went pretty good. Maybe there is some hope afterall
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  #178  
Old 06-28-2011, 10:13 PM
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You just hit everything on the head. Perfect.

It's a good thing I play for fun.
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  #179  
Old 06-28-2011, 11:35 PM
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I still think there are ways EOs can modulate the events to minimize behaviors such as not calling hits, keeping rules on track etc.. despite the variety of "goods, bads, and uglies"

From what I saw on Saturday down south, the way the event was coordinated FORCED the Milsim mindset on the players in a way that promoted people following the rules and encouraged teamwork. Though limiting ROF seems like a great limitation, you will be hard pressed to see a Milsim "mindset/concept" as a result. I think when many people think of Milsim, they think of an organized team systematically working towards an objective. Not a limitation of ROF or oddly specific rules. You will still have a chaotic mob rushing an objective, but they will be doing it shooting under a limited rate of fire. I think working on finding a way to get teams to work and communicate together is the first step (this is done with way too much event planning), then impose limitations for added realism.

Personally, I think Milsim is 100 percent communication, teamwork, and honor.
ROF may be a safety concern for several you (and maybe it actually is), but imposing ROF limitation won't add to the overall attitude of teamwork or concept.

concept vs. limitations
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  #180  
Old 07-24-2011, 09:39 AM
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first off.. ammo restrictions are a good idea because normal units carry around 400 rnds in the real world loaded in mags. and maybe another 150 to 200 unmaged in their ruck. and elite units (spec ops units) carry double that amount. so its more real then someone with a bazillion rounds dumping his mag everytime he hears something. at blind fury 6 (2009) i was leading a patrol (at my first ever airsoft event) with some kids of highschool age. before we left the airfield i had stressed sound dis, and squad formation. and every five minutes on of them was letting out a burst into a mud puddle because he likes the way his gun sounds. and they kept clumping up together making easy targets to get the whole squad killed. thats not milsim people. if these kids would've only had limited ammo they would have thought i better not shoot all my dope and beer before I get to the party.

second off.. radio limitations
in the real world infantry units dont all have radios. the P.L. has an rto (radio telephone operator) who stays close to him and listens to incoming information and orders, and gives command a sitrep or salute report from time to time..
here in airsoft everyone has a radio and there is so much useless traffic flying around that you can't get any use out of them. and how the heck do you remember everyones call sign.. how about the c.o. issue
out unit call signs like hunter two four or hunter two two to each squad. and if the rto heres his unit call sign he knows to reply back. its alot less confussing then calling every single player on the field up..

3rd off. i know they are the cool guys in the military and everyone wants to be them. but not everyone can be a seal on a clandestine mission. someone has to be the infantry in the war. and even do the boring objectives like guard the airfield or something.

lastly.. follow orders, if you get selected to do boring stuff do it. pay attention to chain of command and if your a leader be sure to lead (and not by yelling, this isnt boot camp) and know a few things about tactics and how to apply them.
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  #181  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:28 PM
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NO! You are not a Seal, you are not Sylvester Stallone. Almost all of the time, you are grunt. You have orders to do something that may not always seem glamorous. Who wants to guard a pile of munitions when they can be shooting badguys? No one, but it needs to be done. It is about acting, but not the same acting from sensationalized media and Hollywood movies.


Milsim and Airsoft in general fills different voids for different people. I use military simulation as a way to get an adrenaline rush. To me I don't care if my mission is to wipe the butt cheeks of civi's in a creek bed for a couple hours straight and not see anyone. Thats all good and fun to me. Here's why. It fills the void of things I don't get to do or feel IRL, such as: Having a reason for tactical y setting up a squad to cover all fire zones, When moving thru the broken terrain keeping your steps silent enough that IF there was a guy in your area he would have no clue of your position. Keeping total silence and scanning the area for the possibility that some bad guys mission to poop on us and kill the civi's or what ever. Its all a mind set. Its not.. Your this guy ect ect. Its the ability to pretend you are what ever you feel like that will fill the void. I love the surprise of someone getting into an offensive spot near me and all hell breaking loose. The adrenaline that creates for me is a huge part to milsim events for me.

I'm just saying that everyone has different things they pretend or different ways to view what role they are playing. No one goes to an Airsoft Milsim event and pays 30$ to pretend they are a grunt and have no purpose but to stare at a poop pile. If they get off on being a grunt to watch a poop pile then.. more power to em I guess Just my 2 cents. Everyone has a different urge, void, or area that airsoft fills for them Plus Camaraderie, alot of good people I have met playing this sport
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  #182  
Old 08-08-2011, 07:00 AM
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Milsim and Airsoft in general fills different voids for different people. I use military simulation as a way to get an adrenaline rush. To me I don't care if my mission is to wipe the butt cheeks of civi's in a creek bed for a couple hours straight and not see anyone. Thats all good and fun to me. Here's why. It fills the void of things I don't get to do or feel IRL, such as: Having a reason for tactical y setting up a squad to cover all fire zones, When moving thru the broken terrain keeping your steps silent enough that IF there was a guy in your area he would have no clue of your position. Keeping total silence and scanning the area for the possibility that some bad guys mission to poop on us and kill the civi's or what ever. Its all a mind set. Its not.. Your this guy ect ect. Its the ability to pretend you are what ever you feel like that will fill the void. I love the surprise of someone getting into an offensive spot near me and all hell breaking loose. The adrenaline that creates for me is a huge part to milsim events for me.

I'm just saying that everyone has different things they pretend or different ways to view what role they are playing. No one goes to an Airsoft Milsim event and pays 30$ to pretend they are a grunt and have no purpose but to stare at a poop pile. If they get off on being a grunt to watch a poop pile then.. more power to em I guess Just my 2 cents. Everyone has a different urge, void, or area that airsoft fills for them Plus Camaraderie, alot of good people I have met playing this sport
Unfortunately, those are the dice that are rolled sometimes. If this is your attitude, I suggest you stick to open plays and ditch your ambition to sign up for the MILSIM Ops. When you sign up for a big OP, you are agreeing to the whole package deal. You may be the guy getting steam rolled from minute one to minute last. You may be the guy that defends an area void of players. That's just how it goes sometimes. Ultimately it's up to the command to task their squads in areas they feel are best to the missions at hand. MILSIM isn't about fair, it's about getting **** done right. Whiners and *****y players need not apply.

However, the exception to not wanting to pay 30 bucks, or w/e cost, is if the event fails to deliver and/or starts to fall apart due to event structure/staff. I've walked out of a few myself.
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  #183  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:43 PM
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two words boys and girls... GLOW BELTS!!!!! I wear one in the staging area just like a real FOB. Nothing is more realistic then being reflective on a FOB!

But seriously, I like blades you can only reload mags here at the box thingy. It's simple its easy and it solves the problem of too much ammo available. Personally I don't carry loose ammo or speed loaders 99% of the time and loading at the car between evolutions or when I run out of water is good enough for me. I also kinda like the wave style respawn but I would have to try it to see if I really like it. I bet it would be hard to implement any change in spawn rules since people tend to hardly follow our current ruleset.
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  #184  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:59 PM
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The way I see it, soldiers don't carry a rucksack full of loose 5.56, so why should I? I only refill at breaks or in respawn, not in the middle of a fight, even if I need to. I will normally retreat out of the combat zone to reload, since I don't want people shooting at me when I can't shoot back, much harder to reload .
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  #185  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:17 AM
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Few things you guys are more than welcome to discuss about:
- Team division- If you don't divide by green tan how else? Unless a whole team shows up in contractor gear or insurgent stuff.
- Communication - I feel its just common sense to use proper radio etiquette. If you don't need to talk, DONT. If you do, it needs to follow a military format ( that's the name of the game. Milsim)
- Referee & field officials - More of them and watch for people doing things that are dishonorable ( on purpose or not) Not calling hits. Putting extra rounds into people after they're dead, not counting full medic counts, death counts ect ect.
- FPS - This is personal preference I feel. I don't mind people shooting over 400 up close but not over 500. Is it safe, probably not but i'm into the pain I think the way things are ran here and many other places are very respectable.
- ROF - Once your putting like 25 plus rounds down range in a 1 second burst. I think its time to SLOW YOUR ROLL Yeah that's cool n all but I feel it could cause ill feelings on the field for example. I'm 100 ft out and your shooting 30 rounds a second. At the muzzle your getting 400 fps but that's not the velocity when it his 20 ft or even 100 ft. So i'm about 1.2 seconds out from the time I yell hit to the time your BBS are in flight. I yell dead and I get hit with 30 more rounds. I'd be kind upset about that. A little ridiculous IMO. I was just using this as an example As far as milsim. No rifle shoots 30 rnds a second at least no rifle a solider would be issued and rocking.
- team SOPs and Structures - If you don't have a team your missions are general, if you have a team there should be many objectives that can be dished out to different squads that all tie into the same roll and everyone execute to what ever extent they want. More squad based mission would be great. Less This one dude has control over green and he issues stuff to do.
- Magazines limitations - You should be limited to the amount of lose ammunition you can carry and how many rounds In mags you can carry. Adds a sense of simulation to your Military Simulation
- BB limitations - ^ Yep Up there

This is just my two cents
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  #186  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:22 AM
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Unfortunately, those are the dice that are rolled sometimes. If this is your attitude, I suggest you stick to open plays and ditch your ambition to sign up for the MILSIM Ops. When you sign up for a big OP, you are agreeing to the whole package deal. You may be the guy getting steam rolled from minute one to minute last. You may be the guy that defends an area void of players. That's just how it goes sometimes. Ultimately it's up to the command to task their squads in areas they feel are best to the missions at hand. MILSIM isn't about fair, it's about getting **** done right. Whiners and *****y players need not apply.

However, the exception to not wanting to pay 30 bucks, or w/e cost, is if the event fails to deliver and/or starts to fall apart due to event structure/staff. I've walked out of a few myself.
Point was, People can use airsoft to pretend they're magnum PI if they really want to. Its all a matter of what you personally get out of the game Yeah Most of the time the events are pretty organized but there are those times Wether its a milsim event or an open play. If I'm winging plastic, I'm having a good time!
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  #187  
Old 08-09-2011, 02:39 PM
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On the rate of fire I was wondering what people would think about maybe having say 400 - 450 fps or whatever fps you want n option of 3 round bust instead of semi auto only.
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  #188  
Old 08-09-2011, 02:58 PM
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The problem with three round burst is that it is not readily available for most guns. You can get mosfets, but you can easily change to up to seven round burst and at that instance what's the point?
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  #189  
Old 08-09-2011, 03:21 PM
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Someone with a good trigger finger can probably pound out rounds on 3 burst almost as quickly as full auto. This would be especially true of anyone who run high voltage batteries, and PTW owners. As far as I'm concerned, Semi auto is just fine for 400+ guns. If you want your rate of fire, bring your FPS back down.
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