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Old 06-16-2008, 12:13 PM
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Systema PTW Primer

PTW S 101 Rev. 2

I’ve been asked to post something by a number of people about the Systema PTW’s. Not exactly a data base of information, but more or less a basic guide to them since in the end they can get rather confusing. Also, I will attempt to answer the age old question: “Why would I spend 1500$ on a gun, when I can get the same thing for 500$.” Since I’ve owned a PTW’s for going on three years now, I believe I should post this for a couple of reasons. One, somewhere I can forward people to when they ask me via PM or AIM these questions. Two, so that AO has a collection of knowledge on this subject – the betterment of AO.

Getting into it now, the basic question someone new will ask, what is a PTW? Why would you make a post specifically about it?

A PTW(S) is an acronym that stands for Professional Training Weapon (System). It’s manufactured by Systema of Japan. For the sake of keeping it simple, these airsoft guns were specifically developed for the Military / Law Enforcement market. However, due to demand and Systema’s normal market, civilian there are lines of PTW’s that are available to civilians as well. These guns are not a typical AEG, such as TM, Classic Army, ICS, etc. They do not share the same internal make up as any normal type of AEG typically found in airsoft. PTW’s design allows them to be as realistic as possible without crossing the lines into a real gun, or a gas powered type gun. (I.e. Shell ejecting) As well, their use of materials creates a higher standard of quality then found in most other Airsoft guns. Systema’s goal was to make a 1 to 1 replica in size, weight and shape of the real weapon. High grade aluminum and steel make up the majority of the weapon. Fiber re-enforced polymer hand guards are, indeed the same as found on a real weapon.

Alright, so they’re a special AEG that’s made out of a slightly higher quality material, still doesn’t make the price tag any kinder. So, what else is special about the PTW?

Indeed, you can get 80% of the performance from a regular AEG; however you cannot get the reliability and the service that you receive when you buy a PTW. You will not find the Systema PTW type cylinders in any other airsoft weapon. Although other airsoft manufactures may make quick change gearboxes, they are not the same as the cylinders found in the PTW. In both the M4 and Mp5 style PTW, you can remove the main cylinder to quickly change your FPS. With a range of cylinders spanning the FPS spectrum from 300 to 500 FPS, there is a cylinder to meet every situation. Above this, especially with the MAX M4 PTW, you will get reliability second to none when using the 500+ FPS cylinder set. The reliability achieved by the planetary gear system is remarkable. Coupled with the electronic that control the PTW, you receive a gun that is powerful, reliable, and tough and can quickly be changed. But you must ask yourself – is this extra worth the difference in price? To some yes, to others no, to me I will never use another M4 / M16 AEG besides PTW.

A nice, very well laid out comparison, by Wallace:

Quote:
First of all, the facts.

1. Regardless of what brand, model, AEG, or otherwise, your airsoft gun will only be as accurate as the ballistics of the projectile allows. BBs are round, imperfect, unstable objects. And you shoot them out of smoothbore barrels for crying out loud. To say a PTW can always outshoot another AEG would be a lie, but so is the other way around – because in the end they would have the same “potential” as each other – no more, no less.

2. It is impossible to compare any AEGs once you throw in the upgrades. One can say “Oh I can put this gearbox and that hop-up in my Echo-1, and it will outshoot a stock PTW.” I am sure you can, but all you are proving is that you have excellent smithing skills. Perhaps if you put that same energy into the PTW, it will outshoot the Echo-1 twice over? Who’s there to say otherwise? To put things into perspective, I’ve seen a Honda CRX do 9-second quarter miles, when most “good” Porsches are at the 12-13 seconds. But that CRX was converted to rear wheel drive and has a tubular chassis… the only thing that’s still stock is the shell. (Kind’a reminds me of my TM M4 that the only thing still “original” is the grip and stock tube). Does it make the CRX a better car then the Porsche? Or is it just that the CRX’s mechanic absolutely kicks butt? You get the point.

3. You cannot really use the PTW’s high price as a point of argument because too many variables would be involved. As people have said, a lot of the advanced feature in the PTW has no equivalent in the industry, and there simply isn’t any way we can put a “value” to it so that we can draw “fair” comparison between the PTW and a traditional AEGs. Remember, you are the only person in the world that can decide if something is going to worth your while. Nobody else can.

With that in mind, let me also give you some perspective as to how I, as a distributor, look at the PTW.

First of all, I do not believe the PTW is for everyone. I will admit that for about 20% of the price (e.g. a CA gun) you can get about 80% of its usability, and if you are willing to forgo some of the niches you may even get 100% of what you wanted without spending a fortune. Furthermore, I will even admit that the current PTW is not without its flaws – poor water resistance for example.

So, there I’ve said it. PTWs are not perfect. But in reality, so is everything else. The bottom line is, everyone’s value is different. What is important to you may not be important to someone else, and viewpoints from PTW users could be completely irrelevant to some other hardcore airsofters – simply because what we wanted is different. Again, drawing from Locutus’s example – having a soup-up ricer may be more appealing to someone than buying a Porshce, even though your cost for the WRX (plus all the upgrades) can easily exceed the cost of a 911. Is that person crazy? I don’t think so. At one point in life I wanted a soup-up ricer too. Therefore, the important discussion should only be circled around “what can the PTW offer you” and each reader will have to draw their own conclusion “if you are willing to pay for these premiums”.

Now, personal opinions aside, as an enthusiast I also think many people have missed an important point in this debate. I support the PTW not only because of its unique features, but the fact that it is breaking new grounds for us. I have always been an early adopter in many parts of my life, and in my opinion innovators (especially those who actually delivers) really deserves our support… “Breaking the mold” requires some major guts, taking big risks, face your mistakes, and burn giant holes in your company’s check book. SYSTEMA’s willingness to stand up and say “We can make it better”, when everyone is so comfortably feeding us 15+ years-old designs, is enough ground for me to buy their stuff. This is also part of the main reason I want to be their distributor – that they are hungry for even more technological breakthroughs.

The bottom line is, if nobody embraces new technologies, then no company is going to innovate, and we would continue to stay stagnant in yesteryear’s standards. Someone (maybe you can call us the “dumb ones”) must fork out the cash so that the innovators know what the market will accept, so that they can perfect the right products, so that they can achieve economy of scale, and so that they can continue to bring better, cheaper merchandise to the market. Therefore, being an early adopter is nothing to be ashamed of. We are merely doing the community a favor by supporting the most relevant technologies, and providing innovators the financial resources they needed to keep innovating.

So, if you ask me "is my PTW worth it"? I would say "hack yeah, even just for the sake of making airsoft better."
Ok, so the PTW is pretty cool, what do I need to know to get my set up working?

A full stock PTW will use any large style battery, this goes from the Mp5 to an M16.
The M4 Crane stocks use a special type of battery; this is not your normal crane stock battery from a Classic Army CQB/r or the like. As well personal experiences tell me that aftermarket batteries, or custom made batteries do not work as well in these guns as Systema production batteries. As well, with the style that Systema uses - the metal re-enforcement as well as certain other changes just makes the Systema batteries superior compared to aftermarket or custom made batteries.

A common problem is stretching of the connectors, which leads to the gun not shooting. Now, I’ve only noticed this problem with the use of non-systema batteries in the gun. However, I’ve seen it at least five times so far. The fix is simple however – a pair of needle nose pliers fixes it for a long while.

What you need to get set up:
Two 9.6v Systema batteries should get you at least one full day of play time. The 12 volt batteries are not recommended unless you are going to be using the M150, 500 FPS cylinder in your gun a lot. The Rate of Fire on a 12 volt battery does go up substantially, however once more it is not recommended to constantly use the 12 volt batteries at 300 or 400 FPS.
Systema magazines are replicated both size and weight of real loaded magazines. Meaning, they are VERY heavy. Their steel construction also makes them rather expensive since systema uses real magazines that are gutted and airsoft parts are put into them. At roughly 40$ per magazine, you normally don’t want to buy too many. As well, due to the weight you normally don’t want to carry a lot either. However, you can buy 6 packs of magazines for a slight discount, normally equaling about 35$ a magazine. This will give you a total of 7 magazines, assuming one with the gun. This creates a nice set up as well, four double M4 pouches gives you the room to hold 6 spare magazines and 2 speed loaders. Or, three double m4 magazines will let you hold all 6, while keeping your rig down in size. (The final, 7th magazine in the gun.)

There are other choices for magazines in the PTW world now. As part of this revision I will go over them in very basic form with my personal experience with them. Unfortunately, for our Mp5 user friends, you still do not have any other choices in magazines at the moment.

SABER Plastic magazines for the PTW: These are plastic magazines very closely resembling the same type of build offered by the STAR series of magazines. They are light weight, and hold roughly 120 rounds of ammo as well. They are reasonably priced between 13$ and 17$ per-magazine. A far cry from the 35$ to 40$ per magazine for Systema manufactured magazines. However, they are not the perfect magazine or the end all. In my experiences, they feed very well once the magazine is broken in. SABER’s fix to the problem of PTW magazines sometimes not feeding properly was to simply put less tension on the magazine feed lips by putting softer springs in them. The downside of this, the spring that feeds the BB’s can often over power them, causing a BB fountain to happen out of the magazines. I personally have two boxes of SABER magazines, one of them I left loaded for nearly 4 months before using them again at the day of testing, the others where brand new in box. The magazines that had been left loaded in my vest worked fantastically. The ones that were brand new had the fountain problem. So in short you need break in time with them.

MAG Magazines for the PTW: These are aluminum shelled magazines for the PTW, at a cost of roughly 25$ a magazine. I currently have a box on order that I will add to this piece once I developed an experience with them.

More choices in batteries: Since I have been asked this a lot, the answer is simply yes; LiPo batteries work in PTW’s without any major concern. The one thing different with a PTW then with a standard style AEG is the fact that a PTW continues to draw power from the battery even if you are not using the gun. Meaning if you put it in a case and leave it there for weeks, it will continue to drain the battery. If you do this with a LiPo battery, you will destroy the battery. So if you want to use a LiPo battery, make sure to unplug is after use.

Basic Care:
Caring for a PTW is actually a lot harder than a regular AEG. Because of a PTW’s construction and the materials used, you must take care of your PTW like you take care of a real weapon. Meaning you need to wipe it down after it’s been in the rain, clean the mud off of it or it will rust. The steel parts on it replicate real ones, coating and all if your gun gets a deep scratch, it will rust. Since the magazines, dust cover and pins are all steel as well, they will rust. Your gun and magazines will get some rust on it, or rust stains on the finish. Do not be annoyed, it is rather natural for this to happen on it and its real counterpart.
Internally, there is not much that needs to be carefully watched; typical barrel and hop up care should be maintained, just like any other AEG. A little silicon oil and occasionally cleaning the barrel are good practices to get into. This will help the life of your barrel and the accuracy of it. It is also key to use good BB’s. Personally, I have shot Systema, KSC and Excel’s exclusively out of my PTW’s without a single Jam. I have shot Excel Bio’s and STRAIGHT .36’s sniping, maruzen Grandmaster’s would also be a good choice if you are sniping with your ptw.

A short list of known working BB’s:
Excel (and excel Bios)
Airsoft Elite (and bios)
KSC
G&G (and bios)
TSD
Systema BB’s
Please note I am not limiting it to just those companies, but please only use high quality BB’s in your PTW!

External parts:
Remember, real parts fit your gun much better then airsoft. From gas blocks to grips, real parts will fit in your gun. Fortunately for us we live in the United States, real parts are often found used, from KAC rails to PRI grips, if you know where to look you can find them pretty easily at either the same price if not cheaper than their airsoft counterpart. As well, do you really think that a hong kong company can stand up to the quality of Knights, or PRI? (PRI Is made IN Ohio, mind you.) Sling adaptors, sights, etc… all real-steel parts will fit. It’s not that you need to use real parts, but however – since you can, why not?

Internal parts:
There are 4 cylinder types for PTWs, each cylinder color responding to a certain level of FPS and a spring inside of it.

Black – M90 spring, roughly 300-320 FPS. (9.6v battery Recommended)
Blue – M110 spring, roughly 360-390 FPS. (9.6v battery Recommended)
Gold – M130 spring, roughly 410-440 FPS (9.6v or 12v battery)
Red – M150 spring, roughly 510-550 FPS (9.6v or 12v battery)
Silver - M170 spring, roughly 550-600 FPS (12v battery or 11.1v LiPO)


With internal parts comes a series of questions of what are the differences between the models? Well, long and short is they continue to improve and refine the PTW series. The 2008 guns will be better than the 2007’s, the 2007’s will be better than the 2006’s. The 2006’s are the first year of the “Gen 3” guns that are worlds a head of the “Gen 2”. However, beyond getting into the technical details, there are two basic models of PTWs. MAX and Regular.

Regular PTW: This PTW is the current standard commercial grade PTW. Using an Aluminum barrel, from the factory it is put together with from the line parts. They are currently marked ‘C’ grade guns, fit for civilian use. They come from the box with a Black, M90 cylinder so that they shoot 330 FPS.

MAX Guns are hand tuned from the factory, using a re-enforced gear inside of the box. This makes them slightly stronger and more reliable at higher FPS. They also come with a Red cylinder in the box, unlike the regular models. They also have a steel outer barrel, making the gun a good bit heavier in the front. This is why a MAX gun normally costs about 300-500$ more than a regular gun.
Since 2007 models, all new PTW’s have come standard with tight bore barrels, since this is a question I am often asked.

Super MAX guns: These guns are new for 2008/2009. They once again, come out of the factory hand tuned like the MAX styled guns. However they are factory equipped with a higher torque ratio gears, and the Silver M170 spring. These guns are for ultra-high FPS only, and to be blunt, have no room on the airsoft field. A collectors piece, or training piece more then anything.


Update 2008:
With 2008, the PTW has gotten a few changes.

The 2008 version Systema Professional Training Weapon guns feature a whole a whole array of improvements over the older versions. The control board and ECU have had comprehensive full-scale revisions and a new addition to the 2008 model is an LED feature to the S.E.C.U., which indicates the present state of the PTW during engagement. It may sound like a minor thing, but it can be used to determine the condition of the PTW; when to change the battery, to any serious issues with the PTW.
Even though the PTWs before the 2008 version had a superb trigger response for rapid shooting, the response time has been improved for this 2008 version. The trigger reaction program has been changed in Micro Second increments to allow a crisp trigger response. The program was designed with the 490 type motor in mind, which Systema have adopted for use with all their 2008 models. Other revisions include:
-Improved Burst Function - instead one trigger pull releasing 3 BBs, with the right control, in burst mode, you can release 1 or 2 BBs.
-Changes to the Trigger Switch - 2 Stage Trigger; by using an even shorter stroke, the PTW mimics the trigger travel of a real firearm.
-Improved longevity of the FET, with a reduced power consumption, improving the efficienct by three times.
-Incorporation of a Tight Inner Barrel for all models - Systema have decided to adopt the 6.04mm inner barrel for all models.
-Changes to the Air Seal Packing - changed from conventional air seal packing to an O-Ring.
-Change in the Piston Head Guide Sleeve - Improved Torque
-Standardization of the Cylinder Unit - Since 2007, Systema have standardized the Cylinder unit of the M4 versions for greater expansibility
This, making the 2008 PTW better than ever, not that the 2007 or any earlier model where ever clearly lacking, the newer versions now have even more to offer the end user. With Systema continuing to update their technology shows us the commitment to having the best possibly airsoft gun you could get.

Ok, so I’m sold on a PTW, but what is so special about the Law Enforcement or Military versions?

Really there is not much to be said about those two versions since we are in the consumer market. If you really want to know more about the Military versions please contact me in private about them. The short end is they are a slightly higher tuned PTW that is specifically offered to the LE/Mil communities by a specific distributor with the intent on only servicing that market.

Here is a short guide, for all curious about the different versions from Standard / Max / Mil:

http://www.zshot.com/TB-060712.asp

I’ll add to this guide as I see fit, or as I see questions brought to me about them.

Special notes:
Thank you to first and foremost, Wallace – a great AO member, and owner of Zshot.
To all members who own PTW’s
To all those who read, and remind me of the mistakes I make in this piece, thank you.

Cheers
Fox
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Last edited by Fox; 01-23-2009 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Rev. 2, Edit 1
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:16 PM
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Very nice. Helpful post. One suggestion, adding pictures to illustrate the difference between the PTW and a standard AEG.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:25 PM
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Yeah I'm getting to that... was bored at work so I decided to. I'll put pics up of everything shortly.
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Old 06-16-2008, 09:57 PM
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Just a quick question-

What kind of RPS can you get with a 9.6 or 12 at any of the velocities that you have worked with?
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:15 AM
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At *stock* PTW's are programmed to be 600 RPM (Same as the real M4) with a 7.2v battery.

I'm going to say I probably get 13-15 or so with my blue cylinder on a 9.6

And easily 18-20 RPS with a 12 volt. I can empty a magazine really, really quick with a 12.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:46 AM
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Damn it Fox, I was so intrigued at this thread that I read it right before work. I was late.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:17 PM
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Nice thread
I have one question for one of my friends. Will airsoft ris units fit good on a PTW ?
hve read that KAC ris will fit, but cant find them :P
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Old 12-20-2008, 08:02 PM
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The long and short to answer your question is this:

Some will, some won't.

The CA one will fit if you remove the gas tube.

Some others I have heard fit, such as G&G and G&P - under the same circumstances, removal of the gas tube.

Honestly I bought my parts used for my M4, from ar15.com - picked up my RAS for only 130$ +6$ shipping, full nearly new KAC RIS kit, panels, grips, RIS with some minor scratches. (It's gonna get the **** kicked out of it anyways, what do I care.)
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Old 12-20-2008, 08:42 PM
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Did you just get the RAS from the classifieds?
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Old 12-20-2008, 08:58 PM
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Posted in the WTB section with a list of stuff I wanted to buy... got about 16 emails.
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Old 12-20-2008, 08:59 PM
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Wow thats alot, thanks.
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:50 AM
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that was a lot of info, thank you
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:18 AM
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thanks now i know what bbs wont jam
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
As well, you will not find the cylinder change ability in any other AEG out there. In both the M4 and Mp5 style PTW, you can remove the main cylinder to quickly change your FPS.

This is untrue. The ICS M4/M16 series beat System to market with removable cylinders in 2004, over a year before Systema. The cylinder swap out is pretty much the same between the PTW and ICS guns. Obviously the PTW cylinders are much nicer and are more smooth to insert and remove than the ICS guns, but the approximate time to swap the cylinder is about the same between the two guns.

On BB's, I primarily use TSD Tactical BB's in my PTW and have never had one jam. I have used Excel BB's and Excel BIO in the past which I did have some minor jamming issues with, but overall my experiences with using Excel BB's are good. Don't use MadBull BB's in a PTW, or Maruzen. The Grand Master BB's work fine though. Obviously don't use Crosman BB's or Tokyo Marui BB's in a PTW. They both will shred in the gun.

Also Fox, as you get time, you might want to post the chart (or a link to the chart) from the Systema (zshot) website which outlines the differences between the standard, MAX and LE versions of the PTW's. I noticed you missed a few things about the differences. The MAX's gearbox is also supposed to be factory tuned, and the plastic of the hadguard, pistol grip and stock are also made of a more impact resistant material. How does that effect most airsoft players? Hard to say. I've never had any plastic parts on my PTW ever break.

Good post Fox!

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Old 01-23-2009, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
This is untrue. The ICS M4/M16 series beat System to market with removable cylinders in 2004, over a year before Systema. The cylinder swap out is pretty much the same between the PTW and ICS guns. Obviously the PTW cylinders are much nicer and are more smooth to insert and remove than the ICS guns, but the approximate time to swap the cylinder is about the same between the two guns.
I would have to disagree to a point there. ICS system is, indeed a split gearbox. However it's not an Actual fully contained cylinder system like the PTW's. Same concept, different ways of carrying out. You can't really compare the gearboxes between an ICS and a PTW as well.

Quote:
Also Fox, as you get time, you might want to post the chart (or a link to the chart) from the Systema (zshot) website which outlines the differences between the standard, MAX and LE versions of the PTW's. I noticed you missed a few things about the differences. The MAX's gearbox is also supposed to be factory tuned, and the plastic of the hadguard, pistol grip and stock are also made of a more impact resistant material. How does that effect most airsoft players? Hard to say. I've never had any plastic parts on my PTW ever break.
All grips are made by DPMS (Last I heard) so they should be the same. As for a chart, no such thing exists in a such a simple format. Systema's website is currently under reconstruction, and there isn't information like that on zshots - especially not about the LE models.

There is also a note already on the main post about the MAX gear box.


As for what BB's to use, I've never actually had a jam in with Skimish BB's.

I've used:
Excel
Excel Bio
Systema
G&G Bio
KSC
Airsoft Elite Bio
Straight .30 and .36

The only time my gun has jammed or eaten BB's was when I tested the new Bioval BB's.. and my M4 suddenly turned into a shotgun.

As Darkstar said, stay away from cheaper BB's. No crossman, etc. But if you're buying a 1.5k Setup, I would assume you don't skimp on BB's anyways.


I'll update this thread with all the new information from 2006 (my current M4) to 2009 (my 10.5in CQB) when I receive my new rifle.

I'll go a head and start making a comparison chart as well for regular vs. MAX. However, I am not going to include LE/MIL guns for the specific reason they are not to be sold to Civilians for recreational play. Doing that will violate Systema and Zshot's regulations.
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Last edited by Fox; 01-23-2009 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:06 PM
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You'd surprised, Fox. I've seen expensive toys come in with crappy BBs in them. I know of one GBB the guy spent at least $800 on - full metal WA. When I took it out of the box, the mag was full of green .12 Cybergun.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
I would have to disagree to a point there. ICS system is, indeed a split gearbox. However it's not an Actual fully contained cylinder system like the PTW's. Same concept, different ways of carrying out. You can't really compare the gearboxes between an ICS and a PTW as well.
While it's obvious that the actual design of the ICS and Systema cylinders are different, their function is identical. You said that we can't find the cylinder change ability in any other AEG, which is indeed incorrect, because the ICS PCR-97 (M4/M16 style) series does have the ability to quickly change out the cylinder in order to change muzzle velocities. Not really much to argue about there. Further, ICS beat Systema to market by over a year. I'm not saying that ICS's design is more or less superior, as each person will individually make that comparison themselves. Do the two of us think the Systema design is superior? Of course!

One thing I should also say about differences between the ICS and Systema design is that ICS's design is based on the Version 2 gearbox. ICS essentially redesigned the V2 gearbox to created a two-part assembly that locks the cylinder onto the gearbox when the receivers are close, but allows the cyinder to unlock from the gearbox as soon as the receiver is opened to allow the entire cylinder assembly to be quickly removed. The ICS cylinder assembly contains the air nozzle, tappet plate, tappet plate return spring, cylinder head, cylinder, piston head, piston body, spring and spring guide.

The Systema cylinder, mimics all of the same functionality as a standard cylinder, and can be compared to the ICS cylinder assembly in function. The Systema cylinder includes the air nozzle and related spring assembly that is integrated into the cylinder head. The spring guide for the Systema cylinder is integrated with the rear cylinder cap. The piston and piston head are also unique in that the piston head contains a receptical to capture the rear portion of the air nozzle, which facilitates the functionality of a tappet plate. Since Systema's design does not include a tappet plate, the function of the redesigned air nozzle and piston head was made so that the air nozzle moves to properly allow BB's to load into the barrel.

For our readers, NONE of the parts from the ICS assembly are interchangable with any parts of the Systema version, nor are any other parts of either gun interchangable.

I'm not sure why you'd say we can't compared the two when functionally (with the exception of Systema's electronics), the function of the parts do the same thing and achieve the same end result: propelling a BB out the end of the gun's barrel. Each gun has a battery, electrical circuit, trigger, gearbox, piston/cylinder assembly, etc. It is possible to compare each piece of the system part-for-part, even though Systema's way of doing things in a newer and more advanced design.

I'm just saying that I think there should be an exception clause. "With the exception of the ICS PCR-97 series, Systema is only the second company to introduce the ability to quickly change their gun's cylinder in order to change the FPS of the gun." You might also want to includes some of the technological differences and benefits of Systema's system over the ICS system's use of older Version 2 technology.

Secondly:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
All grips are made by DPMS (Last I heard) so they should be the same. As for a chart, no such thing exists in a such a simple format. Systema's website is currently under reconstruction, and there isn't information like that on zshots - especially not about the LE models.
I haven't seen any changes to the zshot website, and I was easily able to find the chart I was previously referring to. Please feel free to post a link to this chart in your primer. It should help more people to understand the differences. I am also not aware of any production parts for the PTW that are made by DPMS. To my most recently knowledge, all parts are made in Japan by Systema. I'll have to check with my source at zshot for any updates.

Here's that link: http://www.zshot.com/TB-060712.asp

Otherwise, everything else looked pretty good.

Darkstar out.
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Last edited by Darkstar; 01-23-2009 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
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On BB's, I primarily use TSD Tactical BB's in my PTW and have never had one jam. I have used Excel BB's and Excel BIO in the past which I did have some minor jamming issues with, but overall my experiences with using Excel BB's are good. Don't use MadBull BB's in a PTW, or Maruzen. The Grand Master BB's work fine though. Obviously don't use Crosman BB's or Tokyo Marui BB's in a PTW. They both will shred in the gun.
never use Crosman BB's
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:01 PM
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Revised for 2008 and Edited once.
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:39 PM
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Nice thread
I have one question for one of my friends. Will airsoft ris units fit good on a PTW ?
hve read that KAC ris will fit, but cant find them :P
A UTG RIS rail WILL fit a Systema M4!
AWOL has it on his gun.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:20 PM
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Fox - What kind of range do you get with the blue cylinder? I'm guessing 200ft+?
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
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A UTG RIS rail WILL fit a Systema M4!
AWOL has it on his gun.
Yes, but the UTG RIS is made for realsteel, not airsoft.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:45 AM
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Just a quick question about warranties on the PTW. I've tried to contact Zshot via e-mail with this question but my e-mail rejects the message so I'm asking it here. Ive been looking for a challenge kit recently but I have not found a dealer in Ohio that has one in stock. I have found one in the US but within another state. My question is that If I were to buy the PTW from them and then have it assembled here in Ohio at Airsoftsmith would my warranty still be valid?
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Old 05-23-2009, 01:55 PM
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Firefox, I'm with Airsoft Arms. Challenge kits are very difficult to get as Systema is usually sold out before their shipments from Japan arrive. I believe their next shipment arrives in early June, but I can't tell you if they still have SCK's available on that shipment.

As far as warranty goes, there is no manufacturer's warranty on the SCK's as they do not guarantee that the assembly process performed by individuals. I've seen people completely ruin challenge kits before, and it's not something Systema is responsible for. Regardless of where a challenge kit is assembled, there would be no warranty, so it's not really going to matter. The only different would be that you'll probably end up paying more for it to be assembled locally.
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:08 PM
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Thank you darkstar, I was under the impression that a challenge kit assembled by a place like airsoftsmith had a warranty with it but thankyou for clearing that up for me.
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