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Old 01-23-2010, 05:57 PM
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Lipo Help

Hopefully this is in the right section of the forum.

I'm looking at this little guy for my KWA SR10 (400fps):

http://www.ebairsoft.com/firefox-111...rt-p-2088.html

However, being the Lipo noob that I am, I'm unfamiliar with the difference between a 15C and a 20C battery. I know that the higher the "C" rating, the more amps it provides, probably increasing ROF and trigger response. Could someone correct me if I'm wrong/provide assurance with this statement?

I would like to get this one:

http://www.ebairsoft.com/firefox-111...ry-p-1881.html

KWA's crane stocks have much smaller battery compartments than other AEG's (ex: Dboys, Classic Army crane stocks). Although the difference between the 15C and the 20C is only 2cm in length and .5cm in thickness,(15C is 10cm x 1.5cm x 1.5cm; 20C is 12cm x 2cm x 1.5cm), I'm unsure if the 20C will fit in the stock. Could anyone shed some light on this situation?

Overview on what I'm asking:

1. Is the jump from 15C to 20C worth it?

2. Will my ROF/trigger response suffer with the 15C?

3. Can the 20C fit the KWA crane stock?

I'd appreciate any help on this guys.

Sorry for the noob post. I searched the forums with numerous key words and could not find a Lipo primer anywhere (I was positive there was one on here at some point).

Thanks,
Slick

Last edited by Slick; 01-23-2010 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:06 PM
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1: It should.
2: No, it won't. The jump from my 12c to my 20c is decent, but both are fast.
3: Yep! ^_^ Fits in mine.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:10 PM
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Unless you've been using a 12v NiMH battery, with either option you'll see an increase in ROF/trigger response over an traditional battery.

I personally am not a huge ROF fan, given the choice I'd go with the 15c.

I've never used a KWA crane stock, so I couldn't tell you about that.

edit: MacGyver got it
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:18 PM
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Some things that may help regarding which battery to choose: Battery Information

KWA M4A1 (Potentially useful information, especially posts #12 & #17 by Darkstar)

From what I've gathered, as long as you're meeting the required amperage of the motor, and then some, you'll be fine. If both battery packs are substantially above the needed amount, I don't believe it'd change anything considering the voltage is still 11.1v, but I'm not a battery expert either
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:02 PM
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Wow. Great posts by everyone. Thanks a lot for the help.

MacGyver: Thanks for the confirmation on the 20C fitting in the crane stock as well as the reassurement that the 15 will be plenty fast

Aiden: Yeah, ROF isn't one of my "key" focus subjects when considering a battery, but it's a perk. I'm going with the 15C as I do not want too high of an amp rating.

Nitemare: You da man. Great links! I read them thoroughly. I also found out that KWA's amp rating for a motor is 20amps continuous at 11.1v. So I'm going to play it safe and go with the 15C.

Thanks again guys!
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:12 PM
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The C rating of a battery does not matter as long as it is over the potential amperage a motor may need. A motor only draws the amperage it needs to complete a cycle and no more. If something is jammed etc and the gun refuses to cycle it will easily draw enough power to blow a fuse or do more damage. So in a normal operating gun the C rating will not matter typically anything 30 amps or more will not be needed. Some torque motors in high fps setups say 500fps or so has the potential to draw 40 amps.
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Last edited by Warlock; 05-15-2011 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:25 PM
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Wow.. I'm glad this was posted, it answered some of my questions that I was just researching thanks alot for the links and knowledgeable responses
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:32 AM
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For example:

I'm pulling a M130 with my 12C battery. Trigger response is good, but a tiny bit sluggish. In auto, it actually picks up a little after a slight moment. Because of the initial draw is the strongest, (Or anytime in Semi) you may have a slightly higher response with a higher C battery, if the motor and setup is drawing more then the C of the battery.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:49 AM
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Gotcha. Thanks Warlock and MacGyver. I guess I'll go with the 20C then?

However, on KWA's forums, they mentioned that when it comes to performance and durability combined, the max they would go with would be a 11.1V 1600mah 18A LiPo.

I've been trying to understand the calculation method to calculate amps, and I think I'm correct.

With an 1100mah 15C LiPo, you would be getting 16.5 amps.

With a 1200mah 20C LiPo, you would be getting 24 amps.

Am I correct?
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:06 AM
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What formula are you using?

I haven't messed with electrical stuff in a while, I'm a Mech Engineer. =)
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Discharge rate is simply how fast a battery can be discharged safely. Remember that ion exchange thing further up the page? Well the faster the ions can flow from anode to cathode in a battery will indicate the discharge rate. In the RC LiPo battery world it is called the “C” rating.

What does it mean?

Well Capacity begins with “C” so that should give you a pretty good idea. A battery with a discharge rating of 10C would mean you could discharge it at a rate 10 times more than the capacity of the pack, a 15C pack = 15 times more, a 20C pack = 20 times more, and so on.

Let's use our 1000 mAh battery as an example; if it was rated at 10C that would mean you could pull a maximum sustained load up to 10,000 milliamps or 10 amps off that battery (10 x 1000 milliamps = 10,000 milliamps or 10 amps). From a time stand point, this equals 166 mA of draw a minute so the 1000 mAh pack would be exhausted in about 6 minutes.

This is calculated by first determining the mA per minute of the pack. 1000 mAh divided by 60 minutes = 16.6 mA's per minute. You then multiply that number by the C rating (10 in this case) = 166 mA of draw per minute divided by the packs capacity (1000 mA) = 6.02 minutes.

How about a 20C rating on a 2000 mAh battery? 20 x 2000 = 40,000 milliamps or 40 amps. Time wise, a 40 amp draw on this pack would exhaust it in about 3 minutes (2000/60= 33.3 mA minutes multiplied by 20c = 666 mA per minute - divided by the packs capacity of 2000 mA = 3 minutes). As you can see, that is a pretty short flight and unless you are drawing the maximum power for the entire flight, it is unlikely you would ever come close to those numbers.

Most RC LiPo Battery packs will show the continuous C rating and some are now indicating a burst rating as well. A burst rating indicates the battery discharge rate for short bursts of extended power. An example might be something like “Discharge rate = 20C Continuous / 40C Bursts”
Source: http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html

Curiosity killed the cat. I knew it was output, but there's some GREAT info on it. I've never seen "C" rating used outside of airsoft or RC cars, but outside of that world Lithium Polymer isn't seen much.
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:22 AM
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Thanks for the confirmation That's what I did. Sounds good.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:51 PM
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i was just about to look uop that C rating and scrolled down and see it. that makes alot of sense and is verry nie to know thanks
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Old 04-17-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitemare View Post
Some things that may help regarding which battery to choose: Battery Information

KWA M4A1 (Potentially useful information, especially posts #12 & #17 by Darkstar)

From what I've gathered, as long as you're meeting the required amperage of the motor, and then some, you'll be fine. If both battery packs are substantially above the needed amount, I don't believe it'd change anything considering the voltage is still 11.1v, but I'm not a battery expert either
Nitemare's evaluation is correct.
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