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Old 03-23-2014, 10:48 PM
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polarstar finally getting competition

anyone else seen this. drop in V2/V3 electro-pneumatic system
http://youtu.be/7ovcRCLsa8k

I kinda like that it fits in an existing GB shell. makes it easier to work in say a 417 or any V2.X gearbox. kind of a hybrid of the homegrown Kuba T1000 and polarstar system
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:34 AM
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This isn't an anti-polar star thread guys. Don't make it one.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:24 AM
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At first glance, it looks really promising. I've been waiting for someone to show up and give polarstar some competition, if only to drive prices down.

I'll probably get one for my AK when they come out.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:27 AM
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I want recoil. When can I has recoil?
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:34 AM
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Just the fact that you can fit it into a regular GB (i.e. AKs, MP5s, M4, etc) makes it a very promising system. Lets see the price now...
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:06 PM
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It's around $300 and not so compatible as they're trying to say. Can't customize anything compared to p*. Looks like a crossman brand for hpa
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:30 PM
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I don't know -- if you read their literature and assume everything works the way they say, then it has some big advantages compared to the fusion engine. A true open bolt design where the rifle firing causes the nozzle to run forward, fire, and then return rearward means you don't need a nozzle dwell, nozzle return dwell, or a closed bolt setting. The poppet dwell and nozzle dwell (in full auto) are controlled by the dials. The only setting I don't see represented or accounted for is the trigger de-bounce, which is an electronic issue that is fairly easily solved in software, and almost never used in any case.

The part that makes me curious is you saying it's not so compatible. Are you saying it won't fit in some gearboxes or guns? What's your reasoning, unless you've got your hands on one?
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:36 PM
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Thought that was the reason p* makes so many different nozzles? Their one system will fit all gearboxes but what about fitting into that gun and working?
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:05 PM
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That's a reasonable question, since they don't intend to do a removable nozzle design -- FPS will be controlled strictly by the regulator, and being unable to easily bump it past a certain point might make the system more palatable to field owners or event organizers who are concerned about possible safety concerns if someone were to deliberately ramp the P* up to serious velocities; A Red+ nozzle at 120psi or so, for instance.

They haven't indicated what the maximum FPS will be, though, but I'd guess 450 or 500 fps w/ 0.20.

Also of note is the theoretical efficiency... since the Polarstar uses two solenoids (poppet and nozzle), and the Wolverine unit uses just one to control both actions mechanically, it should be theoretically possible to get more shots per tank with this system. We'll have to wait and see what the finished product performs like, though.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:35 PM
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The controller board looks fairly basic but designing a new one that is more powerful and has more feature should be very easy if you understand micro controllers like the arduino or PICs. A few guys on AirsoftMechanic have teamed up and are building a arduino based fcu for the p*. Me, I've never played with the arduinos but I know a lot about PICs.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:47 PM
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the dsPIC chips are extremely capable -- Up to 40 million operations per second, and are almost overkill for something this simple. I've used them as a base for custom automotive ECU units to control spark and fuel injection timing.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:27 PM
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Looks like a great design. I would think it would be easy to mount in support weapons.

Mothman, recoil is coming. KWA has a gun I think.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:52 PM
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The video said American made. (Main reason I bought a p*)
I think the analog wheels for dwell and rof are areas for improvement.

Second the cheap idea for support weapons.
Time will tell if this is more efficient.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:19 PM
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I too was thinking of the possibility of dropping one into a support weapon. However, the formula listed on their site did not give me warm fuzzies about being used in a SAW.

[Tank Cubic Inches]*[Tank Pressure]/50 = shot count

68ci * 4500psi / 50 = 6120 shots

I'd like to make a few notes about this formula:
  1. They said this formula is a "rough draft"
  2. They didn't specify the final pressure used while creating this formula. Was it 40psi(min)? Or 120psi (max)?
  3. I suspect this formula holds true only under ideal/perfect conditions
  4. You never get a full 4500psi after a fill unless you let your tank cool off and then fill it again

I am looking forward to reading the more detailed air efficiency report they are currently working on.

6000 rounds out of a decently sized tank is great for an M4, M14, or AK, but I can easily go through >6K rounds in a day with my SAW. When you play paintball, you expect every respectable field to have a licensed air-smith and a 4500psi refill station. When you run low on air, just run to the proshop and get topped off. But (and please correct me if I am wrong) I don't know too many airsoft fields that can refill 4500psi tanks. For that matter, I don't know where to get a refill on my HPA tank outside of a paintball field. I tried the local scuba shop and a fire hall and both locations said they couldn't refill the tank because they didn't have compatible nozzles.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBod22 View Post
It's around $300 and not so compatible as they're trying to say. Can't customize anything compared to p*. Looks like a crossman brand for hpa
Curious as to what you would need to customize compared to a polarstar.

I also hope they are more efficient than existing systems. The limited tank capacity and the hassle of refilling has come to be the main deciding factor against any HPA set up for me.
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReverseFlank View Post
Curious as to what you would need to customize compared to a polarstar.
Considering the new fcu only has rate of fire and dwell you can adjust right? How is there not a huge difference in what you can customize with P*? Are all of the settings on the p* fcu pointless then?
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Gecko View Post
I too was thinking of the possibility of dropping one into a support weapon. However, the formula listed on their site did not give me warm fuzzies about being used in a SAW.

[Tank Cubic Inches]*[Tank Pressure]/50 = shot count

68ci * 4500psi / 50 = 6120 shots
To be fair, this is a step in the right direction -- The polarstar literature estimates shots per tank as ci * psi / 1000, leaving a 68ci 45k tank with just 3060 shots -- I used extremely low pressure and some other common tricks, but still only got about 5000-6000 shots per tank with my m249; the principle reason I sold it.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:23 AM
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Rotary, what was your FPS/Joule on the M249?
Were you at 400fps?

I am saying because we have been talking (P* owner and I) about how many more shots could the P* get if the FPS was reduced to say 350fps. Could you go up to 7000+ rounds with such FPS ?
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:28 AM
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I was running about 340fps @ 70psi, and the poppet dwell time pulled back.

Some people have had luck pulling the pressure -way- down, but since the air pressure also controls the nozzle, this drops the rate of fire drastically.

The best place to start imo is with the low flow poppet valves, which seem to offer some increased efficiency, as well. It may be possible to pull 7000 rounds out of a big 45k tank at 350 with some careful setup.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBod22 View Post
Considering the new fcu only has rate of fire and dwell you can adjust right? How is there not a huge difference in what you can customize with P*? Are all of the settings on the p* fcu pointless then?
...it was an honest question as I am not 100% sure what all the polarstar fcu is capable of. I am not saying there is not a huge difference, maybe you could use some of your apparent vast polarstar knowledge and educate me instead of jumping down my throat? No reason to be touchy and defensive, I am always willing to learn
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:51 AM
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Relax Flank, Abod22 was just asking you a question. I also wondered what pointless adjustment the P* have

I guess a list between both system adjustments would be nice to see .
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:02 AM
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It's cool, I really am curious though as to what features would be lost and to what degree they would be luxuries vs deal breakers for me.
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But why do we bother doing anything that's pointless. What would Leonardo Da Vinci have done if a management consultant forced him to run a P&L on the Mona Lisa? He'd stab the son of a ***** in the eye with a charcoal pencil. Then he'd go invent the helicopter.

[Texx] 11:14 pm: giving Loki Neg Rep is like pissing on a forest fire...sure its fun and toasty but come on
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
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I also wondered what pointless adjustment the P* have
There is none! That's the point here!
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:44 AM
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It's just that all the adjustments are needed in the polarstar because of the dual solenoids and how they control all the functions. With this single solenoid setup on the Wolverine they aren't going to need to control as much because, simply put, they don't have that much going on inside.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:05 PM
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Well, I guess I should have rephrase my question better;
Are the Extra P* adjustment required to make the gun operate properly or are they there to improve the performance, which would make the XMP model performing less?!
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