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  #126  
Old 04-13-2009, 04:10 PM
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As red said, now the one who sold you could be in trouble with Systema now....you are so mean....
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  #127  
Old 04-13-2009, 05:12 PM
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It might put my plans to buy a Revolution or SCK on hold. I would still wait a good 6 months to see how the gun performs in the longer run, customer service, reviews, reliability, ect...

Even if there was a good distributer in the US, I would wait to see how the gun performs.

Lolz. Way to go Aaron.
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  #128  
Old 04-13-2009, 06:33 PM
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I'm sure the performance will likely be similar to the Systema guns. The two things that will make or break this gun are quality and compatibility. If these guns are 100% compatible with Systema guns, then they're going to sell like crazy. If not, then I don't see them as being as popular. Until I can get one in my hands, I'm not going to draw conclusions either way, but I'm hoping that they'll remain compatible, that way it will get people into the PTW class at a lower price, allow them to upgrade to Systema parts for reinforcement and additional performance if they want.

There is no doubt that the quality of Systema's PTW series will outclass that of Celcius, but from what I've seen so far, it appears Celcius is making a quality product. As always, quality remains to be seen until it's out and in the hands of players.

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  #129  
Old 04-14-2009, 06:51 PM
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just to put my two cents in.i know crimson falcon from asr,and he does own a systema ptw 08 max and from talking to him,he has told me all parts do interchange from the cylinder sets to everything else.i have always wanted a ptw but just couldnt justify 1300$plus for it. i wish all of the ptw owners would stop their crying over this,its agood thing cheaper parts ect..why all the crying over the ctw?i dont know but would guess most of you have the "jones disease"ie the jones have a above ground pool so i must have a inground pool ect..and you will not be special any more boo who.why did you get into airsoft to play army basicly because that what we do.not to go i have this and you dont like abunch of little kids
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  #130  
Old 04-14-2009, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buloushie View Post
i wish all of the ptw owners would stop their crying over this,its agood thing cheaper parts ect..why all the crying over the ctw?
I agree, some PTW owners are going to cry about this like pissy little babies (you know who you are). That said, I'm a PTW owner and I'm looking forward to a cheap PTW variant, and I know Systema is too. Why? Because people are probably going to upgrade to systema parts and accessories to reinforce their "cheap" guns. If that doesn't happen as Systema is hoping, then it will be good for us too, because it may likely cause Systema to reduce their pricing on the PTW in order to be competitive. That means lower costs for consumers, which is also good.

Again, I'm going to wait on the Celcius to pass judgement on it. IF it ends up being nice, then great, and if it's a piece of crap, then I'm sure MANY people will scream about it too.

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  #131  
Old 04-14-2009, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buloushie View Post
just to put my two cents in.i know crimson falcon from asr,and he does own a systema ptw 08 max and from talking to him,he has told me all parts do interchange from the cylinder sets to everything else.i have always wanted a ptw but just couldnt justify 1300$plus for it. i wish all of the ptw owners would stop their crying over this,its agood thing cheaper parts ect..why all the crying over the ctw?i dont know but would guess most of you have the "jones disease"ie the jones have a above ground pool so i must have a inground pool ect..and you will not be specail any more boo who. did you get into airsoft to play army basicly because that what we do.not to go i have this and you dont like abunch of little kids

Starting off from a moderator's point of view, you've broken several rules and you will be getting an infraction for it. In the future please try to use the built in spell checker, as well as your space bar.

Now moving on to what you actually wrote in your post, minus trying to be a PTW fanboy - which on this forum, will be hard to do. Congratulations to celcius to being able to take something and copy it identically. Unfortunately, that is exactly what airsoft doesn't need. More clones. We've been using clones of the TM Gearbox design now for 20 years, with more companies and clones coming out every day. Even today's gas guns are nothing more then clones of the Escort system which is... wow, probably 30+ years old?

What Celcius is missing and why I rip on them as a PTW user, is innovation. Above that, what they even cloned is lacking. It's proven that they've cloned an early Generation 3 gun. Meaning, they've cloned PTW technology from, about 4 years ago. They've cloned the less efficient microchips, wiring, and motors. And they still have not fixed some of the major problems with the PTW, that even the PTW users complain about, first and for most, their motor design will still go through brushes (and unlike systema; with their current dealer network, will probably be very difficult to find.) Their hop up unit is still just a PTW clone, so it will still be lacking in comparison to, lets say the TM m14 hop up.

Above that, as I've followed the reviews very closely, the CTW reviewers are good at attempting to sell a product, to someone looking to cut corners and not get the best bang for their buck. Taking a knife on a video to show how 'strong' the metal is in a receiver doesn't mean anything. The fact that they've completely ignored the flaws in the gun (like the early samples shooting full auto on semi auto) is laughable. The fact of who they've chosen for their 'reviewers' is also... well, bluntly dumb for a company trying to break into the market.

Celcius as a company, seems to completely not get what they need to do. Sure, the cheaper price might be attractive, However, you can have a Systema challenge kit for $200 more. With this challenge kit, you get the full systema warranty: So if you have an issue, it gets fixed. As of right now, there is no info on a dealer network, let alone warranty. Above that, Celcius is apparently not going to aim for the LE/Mil market at all, which tells me they're trying to sell a sub-par product to Civilians because they know that is the only market they will get into.


I could continue to Rip celcius, but as darkstar pointed out this will work in the favor of current PTW owners. As more people use at least, PTW styled guns, the cheaper and more flavors of magazines will come out. The cheaper batteries will get. The cheaper metal bodies for those who want trade marks will be. Perhaps even some companies will come out with replacement parts for both the PTW and CTW that are better then the standard stock parts. (See Motor and Hop up.)

Seeing how Systema is already dominating the market though and also seeing how quickly PTW's have taken over the 'on the field' market, it will be very, very hard for the CTW to actually take off in my opinion. Because bluntly, the Systema rifles sell themselves. People may look at the 1300-1500 price tag and drop their jaw, but to put it in perspective, my M4 MAX was 1200$, plus a 6 pack of mags and some batteries, so lets say I have 1600$ wrapped up in it. However, it's also a 2007. So it's going on it's third summer of use. So about 500-550$ a year, and I don't think I will have another problem with it for at least another year, if not two. I don't mean anything, brushes, hop up, etc. I would not be surprised if it does not last longer. However, just like anything - Systema improves their technology (which is something I question the CTW on), and I will probably want to over haul my gun with new parts; eventually. So, for a gun that performs great, is rock solid... if I use it for 5-6 seasons, it's costing me 250-320$ a season. Expensive? No, you can't even get an echo 1 package for that much with magazines and all. And you'll be lucky if it makes an entire season with out having to put money into it.

However, it's all in what you plan on doing. I plan on playing airsoft for many years to come. So investing $1600 on a gun, mags and battery with knowing I have peace of mind in my weapon - it's a no brainier.. why wouldn't I? If you plan on playing airsoft, but you're unsure of how long you will be playing with it; then no - it's not worth the investment. And as of right now; the CTW isn't either. You will still have nearly 1100-1200$ wrapped up in a CTW, if not more depending on your optics / rail systems / etc.

As I said, I doubted Celcius' business plan. Since they have little to no in house engineering staff; the question remains: Will they continue to improve their rifle like the PTW? Since they've copied an older model of the PTW, will they update it to the newest generation PTW technology before release? Will they have an extensive dealer network? Will they even offer a warranty?

However, in the end I hope two things out of this:

1. That Systema realizes they have some competition and lowers their price. If systema dropped their price $150-200, the CTW would be blown out of the water.

2. That more after-market parts makers see that the PTW is the new gun of choice for the skirmish market. (Since it really is.) And their engineering staff gets to work on making new and upgraded parts for the PTW.

3. That more reliable magazines come out, specifically in a cheaper price range too.

4. That more PTW's get fielded.


In closing though, you are everything that is wrong with Airsoft and fanboyism. Your comparison is absolutely terrible, I would love a cheaper PTW. However, I want just as much as I get from my PTW. I will not sacrifice quality or reliability for a simple dollar figure. Some people may, however when their guns break and they have no warranty or dealer network, I know my money is well spent. The fact that you're already a raving and belligerent fanatic to a gun that... isn't proven yet, is absolutely amazing on so many levels. And, you can ask anyone who I've sold on a PTW. I do not say that my gun is better then theirs, and they can't have it or shouldn't have it. Since I got my first PTW way back in 2003/2004 - I have been trying to promote and sell the PTW concept, and at first; I got laughed at. Now at the past event; I wouldn't be surprised if 1/4th of all people on the field had them.

In the future, think before you post. Think about what you've written, it's really ignorant in light of the facts at hand, on both sides concerning the PTW and the CTW. Congratulations on speaking to Red Falcon, but his comparison to the PTW; which is an older model its self, was terrible. And as a moderator, never post like this again on AO. It's simply asking for infractions.


Cheers,
Fox
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  #132  
Old 04-14-2009, 11:53 PM
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one i'm not a ptw fanboy!second what are the infractions you speak of?you missed my point.it's that we are all in this hobby to have fun and not worry about what john doe has or doesn't have.have you forgotten that we are playing with TOY GUNS ?plus its crimsonfalcon not red falcon
Quote:
In the future, think before you post. Think about what you've written, it's really ignorant once you read it back. It's also very apparent you don't know facts of the PTW or the myths of the CTW very well. Congratulations on speaking to Red Falcon, but his comparison to the PTW; which is an older model its self, was terrible. And as a moderator, never post like this again on AO. It's simply asking for infractions.
you say never post like this again?why because i had a few typos?or because we dont share the same view on something?
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In closing though, you are everything that is wrong with Airsoft and fanboyism.
no thats whats wrong with airsoft quotes like that
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  #133  
Old 04-15-2009, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buloushie View Post
second what are the infractions you speak of??
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In the future please try to use the built in spell checker, as well as your space bar.
That should sum it up.
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  #134  
Old 04-15-2009, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buloushie View Post
one i'm not a ptw fanboy!second what are the infractions you speak of?you missed my point.it's that we are all in this hobby to have fun and not worry about what john doe has or doesn't have.have you forgotten that we are playing with TOY GUNS ?plus its crimsonfalcon not red falcon
you say never post like this again?why because i had a few typos?or because we dont share the same view on something?

Infractions are called for on two reason, quoting the rules:

Quote:
4) English Mothertrucker! Do you speak it?? - There is a spell checker supplied at the the bottom of a "new post" screen that is directly next to "Preview Post button". Spelling and Puncuation go hand in hand, and this rule applies to both.

8) Opinion Posts - These were forbidden once, and they now are again. Why you may wonder? Because "What is a good X" is not a clear enough question. If you are interested in the data pertaining to a particular item, form your question and type it, such as "how does the velocity of x rifle compare to x rifle", etc etc etc.
Now, going beyond that.

It's not that we don't share the same point of view on something, or even opposing points of view. However, it's the fact that you don't have any proof of what you're saying; nor does anyone else who is on the CTW bandwagon. Where as I have personally, 6 years of use with the PTW series of weapons to prove what I am saying. Where you're trying to say that the CTW is the best thing ever.

What I am trying to do, is prove that for saving a little as $200, you're going to in the end, with the current state-of-development in the CTW, spend more. If I was terribly worried about what everyone was using, I would be on a giant crusade to rid the world of JG and Echo 1. But I'm not, I'm simply stating if you can afford to spend $1200 on a set up for a CTW; then you can afford to spend $1500 on a PTW set up and get a much better, more reliable gun for your dollar.

I have no idea where your comments about toy guns are coming from. Believe me, this same thing happens with real guns too. "Oh, I have a stag arms." "Well, I'm better then you because mine is an LMT." "Well, I'll one up you and buy an LWRC" "Oh yeah? We'll I'll get a KAC rifle." It happens everywhere, with everything. And it's up to the end buyer what they want. And my only goal here, is to present, clearly what the PTW offers over the CTW in it's current state of development. And also push what I hope, happens to the PTW (or clone) market for the better.


An infraction is this: I give you one for breaking a rule. Once you get three infractions, you get temp banned. Once you get five infractions, you get a perm ban.

I was going to actually not give you one, but since you made the same spelling / grammar mistakes and absolutely did not try with your post, you are getting one.


Cheers,
Fox
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  #135  
Old 04-15-2009, 12:36 AM
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wow two misspelled words.and the world comes to an end.if misspelled words are infractions on this board,then i just dont know what to say about that.well i will leave it at this you can have your board i'll go else where.after reading alot of the post and responces to them i have seem a very elitist attitudes towards alot of people and thats not why i got into airsoft
Quote:
.Now moving on to what you actually wrote in your post, minus trying to be a PTW fanboy - which on this forum, will be hard to do. Congratulations to celcius to being able to take something and copy it identically. Unfortunately, that is exactly what airsoft doesn't need. More clones. We've been using clones of the TM Gearbox design now for 20 years, with more companies and clones coming out every day. Even today's gas guns are nothing more then clones of the Escort system which is... wow, probably 30+ years old?

What Celcius is missing and why I rip on them as a PTW user, is innovation. Above that, what they even cloned is lacking. It's proven that they've cloned an early Generation 3 gun. Meaning, they've cloned PTW technology from, about 4 years ago. They've cloned the less efficient microchips, wiring, and motors. And they still have not fixed some of the major problems with the PTW, that even the PTW users complain about, first and for most, their motor design will still go through brushes (and unlike systema; with their current dealer network, will probably be very difficult to find.) Their hop up unit is still just a PTW clone, so it will still be lacking in comparison to, lets say the TM m14 hop up.

Above that, as I've followed the reviews very closely, the CTW reviewers are good at attempting to sell a product, to someone looking to cut corners and not get the best bang for their buck. Taking a knife on a video to show how 'strong' the metal is in a receiver doesn't mean anything. The fact that they've completely ignored the flaws in the gun (like the early samples shooting full auto on semi auto) is laughable. The fact of who they've chosen for their 'reviewers' is also... well, bluntly dumb for a company trying to break into the market.

Celcius as a company, seems to completely not get what they need to do. Sure, the cheaper price might be attractive, However, you can have a Systema challenge kit for $200 more. With this challenge kit, you get the full systema warranty: So if you have an issue, it gets fixed. As of right now, there is no info on a dealer network, let alone warranty. Above that, Celcius is apparently not going to aim for the LE/Mil market at all, which tells me they're trying to sell a sub-par product to Civilians because they know that is the only market they will get into.


I could continue to Rip celcius, but as darkstar pointed out this will work in the favor of current PTW owners. As more people use at least, PTW styled guns, the cheaper and more flavors of magazines will come out. The cheaper batteries will get. The cheaper metal bodies for those who want trade marks will be. Perhaps even some companies will come out with replacement parts for both the PTW and CTW that are better then the standard stock parts. (See Motor and Hop up.)

Seeing how Systema is already dominating the market though and also seeing how quickly PTW's have taken over the 'on the field' market, it will be very, very hard for the CTW to actually take off in my opinion. Because bluntly, the Systema rifles sell themselves. People may look at the 1300-1500 price tag and drop their jaw, but to put it in perspective, my M4 MAX was 1200$, plus a 6 pack of mags and some batteries, so lets say I have 1600$ wrapped up in it. However, it's also a 2007. So it's going on it's third summer of use. So about 500-550$ a year, and I don't think I will have another problem with it for at least another year, if not two. I don't mean anything, brushes, hop up, etc. I would not be surprised if it does not last longer. However, just like anything - Systema improves their technology (which is something I question the CTW on), and I will probably want to over haul my gun with new parts; eventually. So, for a gun that performs great, is rock solid... if I use it for 5-6 seasons, it's costing me 250-320$ a season. Expensive? No, you can't even get an echo 1 package for that much with magazines and all. And you'll be lucky if it makes an entire season with out having to put money into it.

However, it's all in what you plan on doing. I plan on playing airsoft for many years to come. So investing $1600 on a gun, mags and battery with knowing I have peace of mind in my weapon - it's a no brainier.. why wouldn't I? If you plan on playing airsoft, but you're unsure of how long you will be playing with it; then no - it's not worth the investment. And as of right now; the CTW isn't either. You will still have nearly 1100-1200$ wrapped up in a CTW, if not more depending on your optics / rail systems / etc.

As I said, I doubted Celcius' business plan. Since they have little to no in house engineering staff; the question remains: Will they continue to improve their rifle like the PTW? Since they've copied an older model of the PTW, will they update it to the newest generation PTW technology before release? Will they have an extensive dealer network? Will they even offer a warranty?

However, in the end I hope two things out of this:

1. That Systema realizes they have some competition and lowers their price. If systema dropped their price $150-200, the CTW would be blown out of the water.

2. That more after-market parts makers see that the PTW is the new gun of choice for the skirmish market. (Since it really is.) And their engineering staff gets to work on making new and upgraded parts for the PTW.

3. That more reliable magazines come out, specifically in a cheaper price range too.

4. That more PTW's get fielded.


In closing though, you are everything that is wrong with Airsoft and fanboyism. Your comparison is absolutely terrible, I would love a cheaper PTW. However, I want just as much as I get from my PTW. I will not sacrifice quality or reliability for a simple dollar figure. Some people may, however when their guns break and they have no warranty or dealer network, I know my money is well spent. The fact that you're already a raving and belligerent fanatic to a gun that... isn't proven yet, is absolutely amazing on so many levels. And, you can ask anyone who I've sold on a PTW. I do not say that my gun is better then theirs, and they can't have it or shouldn't have it. Since I got my first PTW way back in 2003/2004 - I have been trying to promote and sell the PTW concept, and at first; I got laughed at. Now at the past event; I wouldn't be surprised if 1/4th of all people on the field had them.

In the future, think before you post. Think about what you've written, it's really ignorant in light of the facts at hand, on both sides concerning the PTW and the CTW. Congratulations on speaking to Red Falcon, but his comparison to the PTW; which is an older model its self, was terrible. And as a moderator, never post like this again on AO. It's simply asking for infractions.


Cheers,
Fox
my point to a tee. i know this will most likely get me banned,but i feel it need said .you need to focus more on that its agame we play with TOY GUNS and to have a good time at it .not to be an elitist because of what TOY GUN you own.with that being said i did enjoy your site and some of the info i got from it.proof of what?that i spoke with crimson falcon?i never said one was better then the next IE ptw VS ctw
opinion post? where did i give my opinion on one being better then the next i said this
Quote:
just to put my two cents in.i know crimson falcon from asr,and he does own a systema ptw 08 max and from talking to him,he has told me all parts do interchange from the cylinder sets to everything else
with that being said. i bid you all fare well Buloushie
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  #136  
Old 04-15-2009, 08:46 AM
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Buloushie,

You need to calm down man. Fox has made some valid points. If your going to rag on PTW's then expect some defense. Also, for the most part he is agreeing with you that the coming of the CTW is going to help in the long run.


Here is my problem with the CTW:
- From what I've seen you're not saving very much money
- Someone told me the US distributor was a 19 year old kid in his parents basement? Can someone confirm this?
- No warranty's
- No tech support


If anyone has conflicting info I would like to know.
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  #137  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:27 AM
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Fox and buloushie, you both need to calm down.

buloushie, you are probably right in some cases, some current PTW owners will not be happy that someone else might be able to get a comparable product for less than what they paid, therefor cheapening the exclusivity of their club. But this certainly isn't true for everyone. I own a PTW, but only because I like my guns to work. Most people who know me well know that I am a cheap ***, and the only thing that overcomes my cheapness is convenience. I used the same TM FAMAS from 2000 until early this year, so I don't think anyone would call me an elitist. If it at some point it breaks, and the CTW is about as good for less money, I would probably buy the CTW..

So just be mindful when painting with a broad brush, using words like "most PTW owners" instead of "some PTW owners" can make a big difference in how what you are saying is perceived and some people are easily offended.

As for spelling, yeah, we do take that a little more seriously here than a lot of forums. You don't have to be grammatically perfect, but we do like to see people make the effort. Even if you don't care about spelling, a lot of us here do, so we ask that you make the attempt out courtesy to us.

That said, I hope you stick around, I like you WV guys.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:01 AM
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I agree with Fox. I would never be able to afford paying for a PTW but Ive seen them and seen what they can do, so I talk from a non-owner/experience point of view. The CTW may be fantastic, they may be like Well AEGs. We don't know. Now granted, there are hardly any clones out there that can beat a decked out TM bc in most cases- the Clone cant compare to the original. If the CTW is terrible, then hopefully PTW owners will have cheaper parts and mags available to them because of it. If the CTW is pretty decent, then it'll be a more affordable option for people (like me) who cant afford but would really like to have a PTW. I've heard a lot of bad things about Celcius but (don't get mad at me fan boys) Ive also heard that CA's older AEGs had issues too but now they're great. Celcius could clean their act up and easily make the CTW an amazing weapon for the price, or they could just mess up and not fix a thing. It all depends and we wont know for sure until theyre released and people buy them. But either way, I agree with Fox's points. PTW parts could become cheaper. More PTW's get fielded, and (hopefully) Systema drops the prices on their PTWs. We can only hope that good things come out of this CTW but once again, we wont know for sure until a few months after its release which I heard to be in February, correct me if Im wrong.
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Last edited by vern; 04-15-2009 at 11:03 AM.
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  #139  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:34 AM
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the point i was trying to make is this.the ctw will be a good thing for everyone from the people who own wellr6 to systema ptws.in that they will hopefully force systema to lower their price point some.you will hopefully get cheaper parts and mags for the ptws,and ctws because of this IE 30$mags not 60 or 100$motors not 250$
fox mad me mad in saying these things
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8) Opinion Posts - These were forbidden once, and they now are again. Why you may wonder? Because "What is a good X" is not a clear enough question. If you are interested in the data pertaining to a particular item, form your question and type it, such as "how does the velocity of x rifle compare to x rifle", etc etc etc.
because all i said was i had spoken to someone IE crimson falcon, who has a ctw and ask him about parts interchanging between the two.he said they did 100%.so i thought that everyone would like to know that about the parts.the only opinon i think i gave was about the ptw owners crying about the ctw.well there are to many post in here for me to quote on that, but just read back through this thread they are there.on closing i will say this i feel that fox insulted me and that will not change.and if i offended anyone by posting that the parts interchange between the two.and by saying the ptw owners where crying about the ctw then i'm sorry
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  #140  
Old 04-15-2009, 12:11 PM
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Angry

I'm seeing shades of the same crap that happened with the Marui M14 discussions.

Let's look at facts here:

CTW report is currently from one person on a Pre-Production model.

lets repeat that for emphasis

PRE-PRODUCTION MODEL

In other words between now and productions things may change. So let's take this report as what it is truly for the moment - ONE REPORT ON A PRE-PRODUCTION MODEL. Its good to see what they are thinking to do, but there may still be some stuff to finish up. And you know, that's OK.

What I would count as reliable is hearing multiple reviews from multiple PTW owners using the CTW Production model - ya know, the one I might be using if I were to spend the money to buy one.

Until then alot of this is specualtion.

And specualtion is certainly not a reason to resort to name calling and such.

So, I'm gonna close this one for now. When there's some new news, please feel free to request a mod open this up. But let's all take a breath and remember what is truly important - that I am awesome.

'nuff said.
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Last edited by Texx; 04-15-2009 at 12:19 PM.
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  #141  
Old 11-26-2009, 11:29 PM
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Well ladies and gentlemen, it's been roughly seven months since this thread has seen the light (thanks Locutus).

I've been doing a lot of homework on the CTW, mainly because I plan on purchasing one in late January. Here are quite a few things I have stumbled upon which I hope many of you find to be somewhat useful when looking at this weapon.

This video demonstrates the new stainless steel barrels they're putting in the CTW units along with their reinforced polycarbonate pistons.
CTW Internals Abuse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIJDEiz-ka0

Next here, we have a video provided by Hot Spot Airsoft demonstrating the compatibility between a CTW and a PTW. Many parts seem to be interchangeable between the weapons.
CTW-PTW Compatability Test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOoA_DL8E5Y

A bit more regarding their new barrel design.
CTW Barrel Production Test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijx5V17bWGs

The brand new ECU which is being sent to retailers to provide to customers who have already purchased a CTW. This new ECU should address issues such as semi firing multiple shots, along with improved trigger response, and other benefits such as a battery indicator.
CTW 2009 ECU Test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csKEXzLRWCs

Here's information which was just released a few days ago. Celcius has discontinued the MAX-I model of the CTW and is now producing the X-MAX model which includes the new stainless steel barrel and the improved ECU unit, along with a few other changes. You can view all the information here:
http://celciustechnology.com/

Lastly, I stumbled upon another review of the CTW. It sure doesn't bring a whole lot of light onto the CTW, but this is the older model of the CTW with the outdated ECU and copper barrel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katana
I believe I was a little harsh on my first impression of the Celcius CTW so I have added to my review. Please leave your feed back so I know how this is represented to you.

Well guys curiosity killed the cat... I found that Hotshotairsoft.com had a CTW in stock (great company to do business with).... so I ordered one and I received it on Thursday, September 3rd, 2009. I thought I would share with you what I experienced with the CTW.

Packaging: As you can see the CTW comes packaged in Styrofoam. It includes the Celcius CTW, a CTW Magazine, a speed loader, a cd and a barrel cleaner. I like the designed cover to the packaging.



CTW Unit: The unit feels good to the touch. Heavy in weight and the size is close to scale. The inner barrel is an unpolished copper which is bad and does affect the accuracy of the bb’s launched from the CTW. Now the new stainless steel barrel will fix the inaccuracy issue and make the CTW more accurate. Now the CTW does shoot as far as the PTW. The receiver is not to scale as it is slightly smaller then the PTW and actual M4. I tried installing a barrel nut for a Daniel Defense RIS/RAS and it would not fit as the barrel nut was slightly larger then the thread on the CTW. Also the cylinder chamber is really tight. The cylinders are harder to get out compared to the PTW. An easy fix to that is to slightly grease the wall lining of the chambers. The barrel was wobbling at first and the front sights leaned to the left out of the box, you have to dissemble the front end and tighten the barrel nut so the gas tube will align up for re-assembling the front end. Caution the Handguard is a beast to remove. No fix there except to make sure you have an extra pair of hands to assist you in removing the hand guard. I never had a replica’s handguard be so difficult to take off; this is do to the spring in the delta ring being very stiff. The wire in the stock tube is to long compare to the PTW. This is also do to a large Mosfit in the tube. Celcius has made a smaller Mosfit to fix this issue. If you use a standard PTW or even a large type 9.6 nun-chuck style battery you will loose the closest position setting to the receiver for your crane stock do to the extra length hitting your terminals and pushing against the back wall of the crane stock cap. You are unable to tuck the terminals into the buffer tube if you collapse the crane stock to it's closest setting. But as I mentioned Celcius has addressed it and is using a smaller Mosfit in the buffer tube. The stock cap for the crane stock is similar to the PTW Max but different from the PTW Mil/Le as the CTW does not have the two buttons to press to remove as the mil/LE stock cap. It also looks like the two tabs that hold it to the crane stock will eventually brake off as they do not look to strong and the rubber at the end looks like it is glued on. The stock tube or buffer tube is a different finish then the PTW, it is a ruff finish.





Front Sights lean left right out of the box...easy fix, tighten barrel nut

Chamber is to tight... easy fix just grease the walls of the chamber

Battery wire longer then PTW's version do to the large Mosfit, but now they have a smaller Mosfit so there will be more space

Cannot close the stock all the way with a large type 9.6 battery

Battery wires to long, only because the wire gauge is larger

No side release buttons unlike the PTW mil/LE version

CTW Magazine: The magazine seems to resemble the PTW magazines. I loaded both the CTW and PTW magazine with .25 BB’s. The CTW seemed to fire ok with the 1st few rounds using the PTW Magazine. But then it was misfiring quite a lot in semi and full auto mode. It seems when the fully loaded PTW Magazine starts to empty out it will not fire those last 30 or 20 rounds. Now the CTW Magazine had no issue firing all the rounds. And that is what is recommended to use in the CTW. Make sure to only use CTW magazines. The gun operated just fine, when the CTW magazine was empty it stopped firing till I reloaded it. Now when loading the CTW magazine I had issue with it shooting the bb’s back into the speed loader even though the magazine was not fully loaded but that could have been me pushing down on the release clamps. I did not get the chance to load the CTW Magazine into a PTW replica…sorry!

CTW Accuracy: From what I learned do to the unpolished brass barrel (which is now being replaced with a stainless steel barrel) causes issues when shooting bb’s out of the replica. Yes the bb’s while shooting out in full auto will shoot straight but a few bb’s will suddenly fly far left and right. I really mean far left and far right… by like 3 feet. Now the stainless steel barrel will fix this issue and shoot all your shots straighter. Also I experienced the CTW shooting two rounds when it would misfire as I was releasing the trigger. But that was very seldom. The ECU board needs replacing to fix that issue which is provided by Celcius to the dealer.

CTW Motor Grip: I noticed the grip is thinner then the PTW’s grip as in use the motor grip heats up. It gets quite warm.

CTW Electrical: Now I read the CTW is Lipo ready, but NOT from HotSpotAirsoft. I put a LiPo in it after using the PTW 9.6 battery and it would not fire then seconds letter smoke was billowing out of the crane stock, I quickly removed the back cover and pulled out the battery I tried using my fingers to disconnect the terminals but I was shocked and burned. I quickly grabbed my needle noses and disconnected the two terminals. The two leads on the CTW melted. HotSpotAirsoft was able to address this and it turned out the the wires to the Li-Po was the cause of the overload, not the CTW. This is very important because I made the mistake of thinking the other and it actually turned out to be the battery's fault. The gun still worked after the batter melted the two leads. I thought the fuse and everything else was screwed but were not so this tells me the CTW is a good and tough replica.




CTW Purchase: I called Hot Spot Airsoft to explain the different issues I experienced with the CTW the same day I it was delivered by UPS. Now I spoke with a sales rep the day before I ordered the CTW and asked about certain issues and I was told other then the brass barrel being replaced with the stainless steel one that all the other issues should have been resolved. I had asked about any issues, LiPo use, the wobbling barrel and the ECU board and was told by the clerk it was all good and no issues.

Now after explaining all the issues of my test trial of the CTW the store clerk blurted out how they have so many issues with the CTW’s. The manager instructs me never to use a LiPo. The manager did agree to keep me satisfied and we were able to settle our transaction. Other then the burned wires the gun is in good shape for a return no scratches nor scuff marks. I was impressed with HotSpotAirsfot and the manager’s knowledge with the replicas. He has over ten years experience working with different replicas especially Systema's. This is good because I run across so many retailers who do not know anything about the products they sell and always assume the customer is at fault. I am also happy he stands behind his products and understands I am being honest and not ripping him off.

Conclusion: The CTW has a few issues but the only way I guess Celcius will know about the issues is if they get test subjects. They are offering the dealers the replacement parts for the CTW to their clients for free, such as the stainless steal barrel, the ECU board and the mossfit. This is great, i have never heard of a company doing that before. Well I was curious about the CTW and will keep an eye on it for a while as I am lead to believe as long as they fix those issues then spending $600 dollars for the CTW will be a benefit towards everyone's collection. I have learned that Celcius is learning and addressing the issues they have currently but just like the Systema's PTW having issues in the past Celcius's CTW issues will be addressed in half the time it took Systema. HotSpotAirsoft and Poseidon Airsoft have stated that this is a good replica for the money but will need to fix those issues. I hope this helps all of you.
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  #142  
Old 10-15-2014, 02:00 AM
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i just saw the A&K M4A1 Full Metal PTW M4 STW Airsoft AEG Rifle. but cant find much info on it. any one seen one ?
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  #143  
Old 10-15-2014, 06:37 AM
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that necro > . >
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