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  #26  
Old 12-18-2008, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBango View Post
Yeah, that is it's intentional use, but you have to consider weather conditions. With my experiences, outdoor conditions are aweful for smoke due to wind and how rapidly smoke expands in the atmosphere. You either go cheap and get "30 second smokes" or you go the full length and drop big bucks on the real deal.
Which comes out of an events budget. They are expensive. For what? A 5 minute smoke out? No thank you.


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Originally Posted by mcbango View Post
I believe the "poison gas" idea will be great for Airsoft Ohio. It would be great to add more variables into the game (as we know it). For example, it would force players in squads to keep their distances from each other and not cluster.
Good squads do this already. I think something like a poison gas would do more pissing off than good. I'd be mad if my area got gassed just because a bunch of idiots happened to cluster on my squad's position. A good CO paired with good squad leaders will keep this from happening.


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Originally Posted by mcbango View Post
If the poison gas idea goes well, players would then see the advantages of smokes and use them for tactical purposes during "non-posion gas games" (just as you were saying MinioN). I think the idea would expose Airsoft Ohio to new ideas that'll enhance airsoft gameplay and make it more attractive to "noobs" and veterans overall.
AO is already exposed to using smoke...but its an expensive 1 use item. IMO, smoke has more use in a building than it does on the field. If i want to pull my squad into another direction i'll use a gunner and not smoke. More often than not i'll be witness to someone throwing a smoke that gives him little to none benefit.

Sorry if it hurt, but i think if an event host did this it would be a poor waste of event funds. At Bioshock we used fog machines. It did really well...but its weather dependent. There are other more effective ways to keep players entertained on the field. Thats just how i feel.
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  #27  
Old 12-18-2008, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grease Man View Post
In some situations colored smoke is illegal to use from non-emergency purposes.
Oh I know. I was thinking from the Airsofter point of view. What I mean is, cheap "30 second" smoke grenades that would dissapate in under 5 minutes. But we dont HAVE to use the same color smokes... Also Im pretty sure taking the blaze orange tip off any non-firearm is illegal too.



Hahah no problem Mavrick. Good points that I'll have to agree with also. I just want to mix it up a bit... It doesnt hurt to try somthing new!
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Last edited by McBango; 12-18-2008 at 06:13 PM. Reason: added more comments
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  #28  
Old 12-18-2008, 06:33 PM
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Well, taking the blaze orange off a gun is one thing. Since we don't ever show our weapons off in the public and airsoft for the main part is done behind closed doors. We don't worry about that. So long as the area is legit and everyone is notified, we don't have to worry. Popping an orange smoke grenade (i am guessing is the sign for an emergency) is like dialing 911. You just don't do it unless you have an emergency. The likelihood that orange smoke in the depths of Springfield will actually draw an EMT is most likely low, but anything can happen and its important to take that precaution. The solution is easy. Just figure out what colors you cannot use and don't use them. If the emergency color is orange, buy white, green or blue. I won't buy red or yellow at the risk of confusion.
Mav- Cost for the smokes is all relative. How I see it, combat depot sells a 40,000 square feet smoke for nine dollars and a 90,000 one for twelve dollars. For a major event, I could justify buying two or three. Maybe I would buy six if I could. If I am paying top dollar to go to an op like Irene, I would not worry about spending fifty or sixty dollars in smoke. I don't find it expensive in general.
I personally do not find the reason for this thread. It is already a common occurrence to find cold-burning smoke grenades used at Ohio events and elsewhere.

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  #29  
Old 12-18-2008, 06:45 PM
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All of you guys are party poopers. Especially Jack. Tee hee If the majority of AO wants to stick with its simple rules, then so be it. I was just trying to turn a good idea into a better one.

Sorry sgtsawgunna, but I think our ideas were just shot down.
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  #30  
Old 12-18-2008, 07:43 PM
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Ya i kinda noticed that. To me thought it sounds fun and with the 5 min of getting gassed what do you want the smoke to do stay there for 2 hours?
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Tony View Post
As evidenced by the AAT's semi-successful "smoke the breezeway" assault at HM2.
pfft my sport line killed about 15 people there. I was the one behind the furthest up pallet with all my mid caps out and ready for a quick reload.....you don't know how angry I was when i started to fire and the mag was empty but still managed to get more of a hand full

sorry for going off topic
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  #32  
Old 12-18-2008, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtsawgunna View Post
Ya i kinda noticed that. To me thought it sounds fun and with the 5 min of getting gassed what do you want the smoke to do stay there for 2 hours?
actually, now reading this the idea of using smoke as gas is not all too appealing to me anymore, i still remember being stuck in the hospital in brown town during BF5 when some eastern forces that were in it threw a smoke outside and the entire hotel filled with smoke for about a min and a half and about 8 western forces including me were stuck there in some reall thick smoke.
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  #33  
Old 12-19-2008, 06:51 AM
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Hmm really Bubba? Hu that doesn't sound fun...
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:32 AM
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Outside of the miltary using smoke for an LZ and daytime distress signals for boaters, I'm not aware of using smoke for emergencies. Not saying it doesn't happen, just never heard of it
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  #35  
Old 12-19-2008, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBango View Post
Oh I know. I was thinking from the Airsofter point of view. What I mean is, cheap "30 second" smoke grenades that would dissapate in under 5 minutes. But we dont HAVE to use the same color smokes... Also Im pretty sure taking the blaze orange tip off any non-firearm is illegal too.

Please don't post on speculation, unless you know the law - don't assume you do.

As for uses:

Just in the case of the scene, when was the last time that chemical weapons were used by a modern force? The early 1980's by Iraq while fighting Iran is the last major conflict with any substantial amounts.

Then beyond that, we are mil-sim, Chemical weapons do not just come in small little smoke grenade sizes that only cover a few feet. The idea behind them is a denial of territory weapons. In translation that means it's used to make an area not usable for so long. Using them as weapon to actually assault troops with is a long out dated idea. Let alone the whole thing of.. you know, it being internationally illegal.

Side stepping the legality questions raised on us playing as modern forces, and the use of chemical weapons, lets go with their actual deployment and rules. Most chem weapons are now launched by short and medium range missiles, with a deployment rate - on decent weapons - of 30-40% due to burn up. The only idea that I can think is plausible right now is using them to have a reason why playing fields are limited, why fighting forces can't go out side X boundary in a scenario. So a field is say 20 acres, and the reason why forces can't flank outside of that, is chemical weapons have decimated the area and the climate doesn't lend it's self to NBC suites.

Long and short, I believe it has a use in a scenario, but I don't believe it has any active use. Most modern chemical weapons have a stay period of at least 48 hours, the better 'dry' agents will stay up to 3-4 months - depending on weather - before the area is able to be occupied with out the assistance of NBC suites.
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  #36  
Old 12-19-2008, 01:13 PM
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Ok.... we are playing AIRSOFT. And not every game is truely MILSIM (example: open play series). You dont see modern era forces collecting poker chips from deceased combatants..lol. Yeah, I know the idea of chemical warfare is WWI stuff. All I'm doing is trying to give event hosts somthing new to add to their collection of scenarios.

Fox, I understand what you're saying, but MILSIM in ohio isn't as advanced as you're depicting.
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  #37  
Old 12-19-2008, 03:16 PM
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Open Plays generally have a lower price for admission.

As we were stating they are anywhere from 6-12 dollars for a single smoke grenade. They dont last very long. I'm sure a retailer will tell you how much a case costs. It would eat up all admission costs just for 5 minutes of quick fun which could be better used for a long lasting prop.

Mcbango, no offense but you are entirely incorrect. There are some high class MilSim events hosted by teams in ohio. It doesnt sound like you've been to any of them.

As for the poker chip game...Think of it as searching an enemy soldier for anything of value/intel.
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  #38  
Old 12-19-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBango View Post
...
Fox, I understand what you're saying, but MILSIM in ohio isn't as advanced as you're depicting.
would you mind telling us what Milsim is and how do you classify milsim as "advanced" or not????

Just curious here as you just opened another can of worms...

On a side note, Springfield have been through the regular 10$ cold smoke (40000 cubic feet of smoke) all the way to the 2000$ smoke machine after everything has been taken into account, the most effective smoke remains the 13$ one (90 000 cubic feet). It last about 75sec and usually thick enough to get the job done. we also tried the 250000 cubic feet but at 25$ a pop, it did not work well. As far as colored versus white smoke, this is simple; if real life situation call for specific color, airsoft should not use such color, period. Last think you want is confusing real life emergency with fake ones....
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  #39  
Old 12-19-2008, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBango View Post
Ok.... we are playing AIRSOFT. And not every game is truely MILSIM (example: open play series). You dont see modern era forces collecting poker chips from deceased combatants..lol. Yeah, I know the idea of chemical warfare is WWI stuff. All I'm doing is trying to give event hosts somthing new to add to their collection of scenarios.

Fox, I understand what you're saying, but MILSIM in ohio isn't as advanced as you're depicting.
What is advanced about my idea? It's just the realistic use of Chemical weapons.. I should know, I majored in how to counter-act their effects and respond effectively to them in the event of a terrorist attack with an NBC weapon.

You do see modern era forces collecting dog tags off properly marked enemy combatants.

I gave you a very viable 'use' of the concept of chemical weapons. Modern day armies normally do not use chemical weapons due to a simple reason: Weather. In the Iran / Iraq war, roughly 35% of the time Iraq used VX gas, it came back to cause causalities on their own lines, instead of Iran's.

In 'real' combat, we wouldn't have "out of bounds" unless there was a certain reason, the concept of chemical weapons and denial of territory weapons fit this idea perfectly. The idea of hand thrown chemical weapons on the other hand is just stupid. Look at riot police and the use of tear gas and CS gas - they wear gas masks for a reason, because wind changes and they have to deal with what they put out there - One huge reason why it's use is being very, very limited across the United States.

It's a concept that can be used in certain situations - hand thrown smokes is not it's use.

As well, maybe it's just me and because I know way too much about NBC weapons, but I don't want airsoft to get involved with weapons who's modern day tactical uses involve the targeting of Civilian centers and other soft targets.. instead of military hard targets. Yes, that is right - all strategic planning and potential deployment of chemical weapons revolves around the idea of hitting cities, not military bases.

Reminds me a lot of the Soviets in Afghanistan and toy mines..
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  #40  
Old 12-19-2008, 06:39 PM
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You are allowed to use smoke grenades at battlefront , but not sure on the cold smoke ones, does anyone know where i could get als tech. smoke grenades ????
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  #41  
Old 12-19-2008, 06:43 PM
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cold smoke grenades are the only ones allowed at events...
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  #42  
Old 12-19-2008, 07:12 PM
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Mav? Most events around here only allow cold smoke..but I do know of other places, and other states that allow other types. It just depends on the host fields rules.
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  #43  
Old 12-19-2008, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
Mav? Most events around here only allow cold smoke..but I do know of other places, and other states that allow other types. It just depends on the host fields rules.
sorry, thats my fault, i meant to quote the previous post. the guy said
Quote:
You are allowed to use smoke grenades at battlefront , but not sure on the cold smoke ones
i worded it wrong. i was trying to say something along the lines that usually cold smoke are accepted before the other types.
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  #44  
Old 12-19-2008, 11:26 PM
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Ok, sorry I try. Im dropping out of this thread...
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Last edited by McBango; 12-19-2008 at 11:28 PM.
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  #45  
Old 12-20-2008, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
Open Plays generally have a lower price for admission.

As we were stating they are anywhere from 6-12 dollars for a single smoke grenade. They dont last very long.
Well, sounds like the price for ONE smoke grenade is about as much as admission for an open play event. so, it does seem a bit pointless.
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  #46  
Old 12-20-2008, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughter View Post
Well, sounds like the price for ONE smoke grenade is about as much as admission for an open play event. so, it does seem a bit pointless.
If I may add, smoke grenades at Battlefront cost like...a dollar a piece. I've noticed from the few I've seen used they don't last too long but it's added realism.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2009, 09:44 PM
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We have bought Surplus Smoke Grenades at Whitey's Surplus in Berea. They provide good cover when we are moving in the metroparks.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:31 PM
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Artimus, First off, if you are too lazy to change CAPLOCKS, I can tell you that your enjoyment here will not last long. You know it but keep it...can't be lazier than that.

CCCP, when you say metropark? you mean in public areas???

Most places if not all requires cold smoke grenade to limit fire hazard.
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
We have bought Surplus Smoke Grenades at Whitey's Surplus in Berea. They provide good cover when we are moving in the metroparks.
Playing in metroparks is a bad idea by itself, let alone using smoke grenades/bombs
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  #50  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
We have bought Surplus Smoke Grenades at Whitey's Surplus in Berea. They provide good cover when we are moving in the metroparks.
If you are playing airsoft in a metropark, you may want to reconsider. A metropark park ranger will be visiting you and your fellow players with a pistol drawn because a hiker or dog walker calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that there are young people running around with "guns" or says there is a fire because you threw a smoke.

CCCP.........STOP
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