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Old 06-06-2008, 11:10 AM
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G36 Gearbox upgrade issue

I've got a G36 gearbox that's giving me some grief over a simple spring swap. With the stock linear M100 put in, everything cycles fine no problems. When I try to put in a new SP110 variable pitch spring, the piston pulls back about half way and then stops.

Here's my deductive reasoning path so far:

1) Bearings issue? Removed ALL bearings, including those on the piston head as well as using a plain non-bearing spring guide. Still no luck.
2) Tappet Plate Issue? Slides fine, works fine with the stock spring.
3) Motor issue? Well, the motor is an SRC high torque motor, that supposedly has more torque than even a Systema High-Torque. It's rated to pull an M150. The magnets on this thing will attract screwdrivers and spoons from 6 inches a way. So I'm doubting the motor is the issue.
4) Shims issue? The shimming is perfect. I can run just the gears alone with the motor and the gears spin like there is no tommorrow. No weird noises or hesitation.
5) Battery issue? I've tried 3 different 9.6v batteries, all fully charged, and get the exact same result.
6) Wiring issue? Well, the wiring is pretty much brand spanking new, heavy gauge, no crimps or anything. Like I said, with the old spring, everything works fine.

I've been in and out of the gearbox multiple times, and get the same results. I'm leaning toward it being a problem with the non-linear SP110 spring somehow? Maybe with it being irregular pitch, too stiff (sounds illogical I know)? Should I cut a coil off the spring, get another softer spring, or just call it a wash and put the old spring back in?

Just need another opinion here.
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Last edited by Torque; 06-06-2008 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:22 AM
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did you lock the anti reversal latch to the bevel gear and/or is the sector gear aligned properly?
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:03 PM
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Did you try putting the spring in the other way...
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:04 PM
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This sounds more like a spring issue, in that the spring is in backward. Make sure the tightly coiled end of the spring is to the rear of the gun, and the loosely coiled end is the end inside the piston. That should solve the problem. Let me know if you're still having trouble.

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Old 06-06-2008, 01:59 PM
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Texx, DS

My bad, I had a feeling I would leave some details out that might become suggestions. Yes, when I install irregular pitch springs (currently in 2 other AEGs I own) I always put the tighter coils at the spring guide end. That seems to be the consensus. I can try the other way around if you guys think it might work.

Brendan, the ARL and gears are all in the correct position. I like to double/triple check all alignment out of paranoia, because I tire of gearbox re-entry process over dumb mistakes.

Thank guys, any other suggestions?
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:07 PM
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No, the tighter coils always go over the spring guide. What kind of piston are you using. Also, the SP110 may not work with the Classic Army piston. Also, is your spring guide one with the bearings?
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:59 PM
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Darkstar are you thinking the spring might be binding on the spring guide?

Maybe the spring is not a uniform diameter and under compression is tightening around the spring guide.

Try a Systema 120 or something along the same desired output of your SP110. Even if this combination has worked on the exact same gun, there might be enough variance in part specs that it simply won't work on this one.

I have had better luck using Systema Springs. I've tried only a few different ones, though and have always had a good supply of Systema parts, so have never really bothered with alot of the others.
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Last edited by Texx; 06-06-2008 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:05 PM
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I had the same issue with a MadBull spring in my TM AUG which is also version 3. I simply cut off a half of a coil and it works fine. Seemed as though their was not enough room for the spring to completely compress.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:15 PM
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Take the gearbox and try shooting it while it isnt in the body. Then put it in the body and try. Just curious...
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texx View Post
Darkstar are you thinking the spring might be binding on the spring guide?

Maybe the spring is not a uniform diameter and under compression is tightening around the spring guide.

Try a Systema 120 or something along the same desired output of your SP110.
Well, I don't think it's binding on the spring guide, I think the spring may be binding against the inside of the piston itself. Some springs do have different outer diameters and springs also torque themselves when they contract and expand, which made cause the outer diameter to increase further. What I am thinking is that as the spring is compressed, it is being torqued and it's outer diameter is increasing, and as the piston is pulled back over the spring, the spring binds and gets locked against the inside of the piston.

My theory gets shot to hell in a handbasket if he's already got a spring guide with ball bearings. If he's just got the metal spring guide with metal buffer ring, or even the teflon ring, it could still be binding.

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Old 06-06-2008, 08:21 PM
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He said he removed the piston head with bearing
Quote:
1) Bearings issue? Removed ALL bearings, including those on the piston head as well as using a plain non-bearing spring guide. Still no luck.
So it apparently didn't work with the piston head w/ bearings either. Same as how my gun was until I snipped the spring.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:26 PM
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I really hope that your answer to my question is that the gearbox shoots out of the g36 body but not while installed in the body. It would be a great opportunity to talk about a new fix that I discovered for the G36, for a VERY common problum. (In this particular case I doubt this is the issue as most of the time it just wont fire at all while in the body) but hey, worth a shot.
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:01 AM
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I've got to go out of town this weekend, so I'll have to pick this back up on Monday. It's been driving me nuts, so it'll be good to put it away for a while. Needless to say I am intrigued by this mystery though, as I've never seen this before in any of my other gearboxes.

DS, I think you might be on to something about the spring torquing. Mr. B, I've been testing the gearbox outside the body so far, but when it was stock and I had it in the body it was shooting fine. I'll retry either way again. Demon, I may end up going that route as a last resort, if the spring torquing is not the issue.

Just out of curiosity, what's the theoretical number of times your can reopen a gearbox before you strip the screw heads, threads, or the screws snap from being too weak? Ahhh curses to the gods of airsoft!
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Last edited by Torque; 06-07-2008 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 06-07-2008, 10:22 PM
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If its a CA box, who knows how long? But if it is a KA box, I have yet to overtorque a screw. I wouldnt worry about it.

Im sorry if I did not see this, but have you put the origional spring back in and tested it?
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Old 06-07-2008, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
4) Shims issue? The shimming is perfect. I can run just the gears alone with the motor and the gears spin like there is no tommorrow. No weird noises or hesitation.
Actually, just because they spin fine with no or even a stock load doesn't necessarily mean they can handle an upgraded spring. I've seen guns bind up before with just a simple spring swap if they weren't reshimmed. It could also be your gearbox. It could be good enough to run a stock spring but slightly warped so that when you increase the load, your gears binds up.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:47 PM
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Well, it seems my V3 gearbox just hates a non-linear spring. I even decided to sacrifice the spring to the airsoft gods by cutting off a full coil, just to test the theory that it didn't have enough room to fully compress or was causing too much load to bind up the gears. Even with the shorter spring it still locked up.

My theory is similar to Brads, no so much in expansion of the spring diameter, but the spring binding/folding and causing a lateral force that's pushing against either the side of the gearbox and/or the inside of the piston: thus locking up the piston. Unfortunately I can't see exactly what's going on internally, as the V3 gearbox does not have the spring 'window' cutout to see what's happening with the spring when this is occurring.

For now, I just put everything back to stock and called it a day. Works fine, just was looking for a little more power.

Just curious though, can anyone point me to some good linear springs still for sale out there? Seems like everyone is selling just non-linear these days.

Thanks to all for the troubleshooting.
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Last edited by Torque; 06-09-2008 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:59 PM
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Yea, I wish I had an X-Ray machine to be able to look inside gearboxes sometimes to really see what in the heck is going on, but I still stand behind my original theory. I just think it's the spring torquing. I see it all the time. I'd bet if you dropped a Systema spring in there the problem will go away.

By non-linear are you referring to irregular pitch springs?

Darkstar out.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:02 PM
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Non-linear and irregular pitch are one in the same. Regular/ linear pitch have a consistent pitch the entire length of the spring. Non-linear spring have a longer life(if maintained) and have better performance.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
I just think it's the spring torquing. I see it all the time. I'd bet if you dropped a Systema spring in there the problem will go away.
Yeah, we can test that theory. Although not sure, I still got the same result when I had the bearing spring guide in there. btw, which systema spring would you recommend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
By non-linear are you referring to irregular pitch springs?
Yeah that's what I meant. I kinda hear those two terms being used interchangeably for irreg-pitch springs.
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:06 PM
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If you get the older version of PDI springs, they are non linear.
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