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View Poll Results: Would you like to see an ID system implimented
Yes 63 39.87%
No 57 36.08%
Maybe 38 24.05%
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 05-02-2008, 10:50 PM
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That's a good point. A couple of rolls of duct tape (it comes in green or tan) and a magic marker would come in handy. But, the largest events have maybe 300? 75 on my arm would be easier to write/remember than ODDJOB. I don't like the idea of some Illuminati that gets fed information from all events in order to ferret out lawbreakers, but the tape would be good on a local level. If 5 players say 75 was acting a fool, Francois could catch me at the game and let me know to chill out or he could p.m. me on AO later if he misses me at the game.
  #102  
Old 05-02-2008, 10:59 PM
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Oddjob: Sorry if I came off as condescending. That wasn't my intention. Unfortunately, forums can't always convey a person's true intention. I appreciate the invite.

Atomic: Airsoft isn't real military. A team's rank system has to start and end somewhere. Somehow calling yourself a general seems a bit lofty, don't you think? That's why it makes more sense to use a structure customized for the size of the team that works. My sig isn't the topic of the thread though. I removed it so it won't be a distraction in the future. *sheesh!*

Output01x: Excellent post. I agree with everything you said. I said something similar in the other thread, but got diverted with the number suggestions. I'm going to digress and say keeping it simple is the best policy. Name tapes would do that nicely.
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Last edited by Oscar; 05-02-2008 at 11:07 PM.
  #103  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddjob View Post
O-01x

That's a good point. A couple of rolls of duct tape (it comes in green or tan) and a magic marker would come in handy. But, the largest events have maybe 300? 75 on my arm would be easier to write/remember than ODDJOB. I don't like the idea of some Illuminati that gets fed information from all events in order to ferret out lawbreakers, but the tape would be good on a local level. If 5 players say 75 was acting a fool, Francois could catch me at the game and let me know to chill out or he could p.m. me on AO later if he misses me at the game.

You're right. It shouldn't be like that. There's no need for a governing body or a database. If everyone had their name on their uniform it would go a long way.
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  #104  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:09 PM
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Someone called me?

Personally and as an organizer, anything thing I will use to help me getting the event started more effectively or quicker, I am all for it. The ID card must be exactly for that if we start implementing it. Call it selfish if you want but I honestly did not even think it would further than Springfield and intended to simply use an excel sheet to keep up with the data. No plans to make it up on the internet, ethernet or where ever someone else could gain access. The card would be there (in our case) to simply bring up the actual data on the player, nothing else. the emergecy phone number is exactly that; when something happen, you want to have quick access to a number and can't wait to get home or until the guy wake up (if he ever does).

Sadly, too many players don't want to hear about regulations. Heck, they hardly take the time to bring a filled waiver or a red rag, you can be sure they will forget the ID card all the time unless we attach some sort of discount when shown (don't even think about it !).

As you can see in the poll results, 50% of the community is against, that pretty much means 50% chances player will not bring the ID to the field if enforced. For the 20% of "maybe", well, that is typical of this community; it is really hard to commit one way or another these days
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Last edited by Blade; 05-02-2008 at 11:20 PM. Reason: damn spelling....blame it on the lack of sleep :D
  #105  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strikers_blade View Post
Someone called me?

Personally and as an organizer, anything thing I will use to help me getting the event started more effectively or quicker, I am all for it. The ID card must be exactly for that if we start implementing it. Call it selfish if you want but I honestly did not even think it would further than Springfield and intended to simply use an excel sheet to keep up with the data. No plans to make it up on the internet, ethernet or where ever someone else could gain access. The card would be there (in our case) to simply bring up the actual data on the player, nothing else. the emergecy phone number is exactly that; when something happen, you want to have quick access to a number and can't wait to get home or until the guy wake up (if he ever does).

Sadly, too many players don't want to hear about regulations. Heck, they hardly take the time to bring a filled waiver or a red rag, you can be sure they will forget the ID card all the time unless we attach some sort of discount when shown (don't even think about it !).

As you can above, 50% of the communication is against, that pretty mean 50% chances player will not bring it to the field if enforced. For the 20% of "maybe", well, that is typical of this community; it is really hard to commit one way or another these days

Now that you bring it up in that context it makes more sense. From a safety and medical standpoint it's something I'd like to see implemented. Maybe organizers need to start adding fields on registration forms for extra information, like who to call in case of an emergency. Information that would remain private to the organizers, but would be vital if a situation does come up. It wouldn't necessarily require an ID per se, but it would require that someone knows who you are, or you have proper identification on you. That's where the name tapes come in.

Participation wouldn't be hard if you approached teams and asked them to incorporate name tapes on their uniforms, which could be cross-referenced with registration records. Individual players will be the hardest to get on board. I don't think it's hopeless. As long as you have some form of identification on each player that cross-references to a set of data the organizers have on-hand, that's all you need for anything from a medical emergency to an issue on the field.
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Last edited by Oscar; 05-02-2008 at 11:37 PM.
  #106  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:21 PM
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If I hear the word "Vet" again, I'll bust a nut...

I.D. Cards have a point, just like the FPS class idea did, but it's mostly trivial and will complicate things more than they need to be. The idea of having a nametape ON your gear, not your BDUs, is great. I'm planning on getting one or two soon, I know a few of my teammates have them.
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  #107  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:22 PM
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I disagree. Part of the reason Loki started this thread is because he believes that there is such an influx of new airsofters right now that it is becoming difficult to get to know the majority of them. Seeing a random number on a player isn't going to help you get to know that individual. Requiring that player to have his/her callsign clearly visible will help you put a face to the name you've seen countless times on AO. Really, how many times have you noticed somebody at the staging area, started talking to him, then noticed his callsign and realized that you already knew him from the forum? Seeing "75" on his shoulder isn't going to allow you to make this connection.

As far as an Illuminati organization, that means that we would need to build an entire database along with a base of players to run it. Some of our most respected and willing-to-work members are already mods and admins on AO. It would take another group, preferably composed of members of many of the more respected teams. There really aren't many airsofters on this forum that are willing to dedicate that much time and effort into something that might not even take off, and if it does, won't reap them much benefit. More imporatntly, who gets to be Silas and who gets to be Langdon?

I don't really know how feasible this would be, and what the payoff would actually entail. Would an AO ID Dept. help keep cheating and hot tempers off the field? Would an AO Player Org. help us look more respectable and legit? Are these things really necessary? If this idea actually does take off, will there be a strong enough base of participants to make this idea truly last and become beneficial?

Now, Blade mentioned something that I didn't think about. The registry would in fact make having an emergency phone number easy to locate as opposed to having to dig through waivers while the poor guy is bleeding to death. However, once again, is the registry necessary? Wouldn't it be just as simple to require an emergency contact number when the person registers for the event, then create an alphabetical spreadsheet with everyone's information listed? It might make a little more work for the event staff, but for something that important, I think most hosts would be willing to put in the time.
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  #108  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:22 PM
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Red, how many years has your team been around?
and you are telling me nametag is not part of your SOE yet?
shame on you...definitely can't call you a VET
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  #109  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strikers_blade View Post
Red, how many years has your team been around?
and you are telling me nametag is not part of your SOE yet?
shame on you...definitely can't call you a VET
{Facepalm}

I hope youre kidding. Basing vet status on wether or not a member has a nametag is borderline elitist.
  #110  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strikers_blade View Post
Red, how many years has your team been around?
and you are telling me nametag is not part of your SOE yet?
shame on you...definitely can't call you a VET
Nut officially busted.

I never claimed to be a vet. I'd rather pass on that title.

I never really felt the motivation to buy a nametape that says "Red", I've always considered the team patch to be enough. If someone saw that I was doing something wrong, they'd see the patch - god knows they're bright enough - and they'd alert the organizer that a guy from this team was doing something wrong. Organizer would tell me if they were able to identify me or if someone notified me that I did something wrong, or the organizer would notify another person on the team, the team would settle the matter and we'd correct what damage that was done. That's how we've more or less operated with problems when they came up.
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  #111  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:43 PM
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I had an idea a couple months ago (that I was going to code for BA3) to design an event registration page to allow users to manage their own profile instead of registering for an event once and having to do it again for the next event. It makes more sense for an organizer to have a database where users can update their information, including registered event information up until registration close. It saves a lot of time organizers have to spend on corrections.

The reason I bring it up is because it makes more sense to keep the data in the hands of the organizers, on their own sites. TAC might have one database and Strikers another. If you want to attend an event you register your callsign and fill in your profile. The profile would contain all pertinent information (like who to call in case of an emergency) and would stay intact from one event to the next. Each time you sign up for an event your profile data is used. The data would be privately kept on each organizer's website and printed out at registration time as it normally is now. No need for oversight and no one person dictating. Ensure each person has identifying name tapes at the event. If they don't have a name tape then write their callsign in black marker on some camo tape and wrap it around their arm. ID problem solved. Emergency problem solved. Redundant event registration forms eliminated. The only data you would have to fill out on an event reg form would be your chosen side (and/or other event specific items). The rest would already be there.

Organizers have always been the data keepers. Why change now? Keeping the details in the hands of the organizers has been quite successful for the community and it has grown in many ways. I think it's the best way to keep from there having to be a governing body. The organizers and teams that make up the community are what keeps it fresh and alive because of the diversity of ideas and the natural separation that exists from one team to the next.
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  #112  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:46 PM
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Oscar: Thats perfect.
  #113  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:56 PM
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Actually, the Strikers have already done it. AirsoftEvents.com requires that you register your screenname and fill out your profile in order to attend their events. Other teams have already used the AE site for hosting events.
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  #114  
Old 05-02-2008, 11:56 PM
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you definitely don't need to be a veteran to have a nametag. Although, any real veteran (not talking about airsoft forums veteran here) should know by now that communication and identification can make a huge difference in the field. If you thought a team is only some friends tagging along at the bar, you definitely need to rethink your team as a whole. So yeh, a new player can't afford the luxury of not knowing what is the purpose of a nametag. A veteran should know better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Clips View Post
{Facepalm}

I hope youre kidding. Basing vet status on wether or not a member has a nametag is borderline elitist.
And yes, AE website is technically able to monitor the players data within the AEV events system. an organizer can get access to a "ban page" where another organizer could have raised a red flag on a player. It is not a bad system by itself but there are few things I don't like and would change. I guess making it more organizer friendly would be the right term.
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Last edited by Blade; 05-02-2008 at 11:59 PM.
  #115  
Old 05-03-2008, 07:11 AM
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I don't know, kind of feels like Russia...
  #116  
Old 05-03-2008, 07:55 AM
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I disagree with putting more referees on the field. I believe one of the major things wrong with this country is that everyone expects a third party to police their disputes. Back in the day, you wouldn't call a cop unless it was something that got to big for you to handle. Now people call the cops at the drop of a hat. :/

In any case, I'm glad that this thread is staying on topic (for the most part), and that some useful dialogue has been had.
  #117  
Old 05-03-2008, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
I disagree with putting more referees on the field. I believe one of the major things wrong with this country is that everyone expects a third party to police their disputes. Back in the day, you wouldn't call a cop unless it was something that got to big for you to handle. Now people call the cops at the drop of a hat. :/

In any case, I'm glad that this thread is staying on topic (for the most part), and that some useful dialogue has been had.

I believe it was me that suggested more referees. Not to police per se, but to be available in a part of the field so that a ref doesn't have to travel from one side to the other to deal with a dispute. I've been to events where there were less than five organizers on the field. On a large field that's a little slim. Have enough refs on the field, according to its size, is all I'm saying. Another separate issue about refs is they should be intimately aware of the rules of the event and there should be no gray area where you get two different answers from two different refs.

Back to ID's or name tapes, they're a good idea and I voted yes. Whatever form they take the end result should be the same.
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  #118  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strikers_blade View Post

"when something happen, you want to have quick access to a number and can't wait to get home or until the guy wake up (if he ever does)."


Call 911, Its the legal responsibility of the hospital/ems to identify/contact family members in the event of an emergency. An untrained person calling someones mother and telling them her son has been in an accident will more than likely result in another casualty as a result of assault from said victims mother. (Lol.)

Although, if you insist on having such data available.. Have people send the event co-ordinator the information before the event. There is simply too much privacy issues with this its insane.

All due respect.
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  #119  
Old 05-04-2008, 12:05 AM
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It is the duty of the hospital to notify the emergency contact/parents/what ever, as for ems we gather patient info as best we can, usually from a family member, drivers license, or med sheet depending on the case, personally I have yet to be on a run where one of the above was not present. It is our job to begin treatment, and start to control the injury, after that it is the hospitals.
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  #120  
Old 05-04-2008, 11:12 PM
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John Tron just bought a ECHO1 MP5 and decides to attend his first event. At the event, he accidentally takes a tumble down a hill, cracks his head on a rock, and is rendered unconscious. The airsofters around him switch to channel 1, get staff to his position, and call 911. EMS arrives, gets him on a soft stretcher, and gets him to the ambulance. There, they search his person for ID and find nothing. Because Tron had changed into his BDUs at the field, he left everything but his car keys inside his '94 Ford Probe. His car key was a copy, with no discerning markings.

Really, it is disgustingly easy for a situation like this to occur, especially in our sport. If Tron simply had a nametape with his callsign on it, the organizers could have gone through the waivers, found his name and emergency contact number, and the hospital could have been notified of his health history and possible allergies. This is all the more reason why we should all have some form of identification on us. A laminated ID might not be necessary, but a nametape with at least the player's callsign really should be mandatory.
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  #121  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by output01x View Post

Now, Blade mentioned something that I didn't think about. The registry would in fact make having an emergency phone number easy to locate as opposed to having to dig through waivers while the poor guy is bleeding to death.

So you saying you would dig though a pile of papers to determine someones identify BEFORE calling help?

It sounds like your implying its worthless to call an ambulance unless you know who the dude is, although thats probably not what you mean.
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  #122  
Old 05-07-2008, 09:14 AM
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It makes it possible for the information to be ready when the emts arrive.
  #123  
Old 05-07-2008, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
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So you saying you would dig though a pile of papers to determine someones identify BEFORE calling help?

It sounds like your implying its worthless to call an ambulance unless you know who the dude is, although thats probably not what you mean.

What if the guy is a hemophilliac, or has AIDS, or another blone borne pathogen that requires special attention?

While no identity is required to call an ambulance, the time between the call and the arrival of the EMTs should be spent gathering as much info as possible on the victim and any medical conditions that they may have.

Yes, that would be a nice feature, but that is more along the lines of what your license does.
  #124  
Old 05-07-2008, 11:47 AM
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Here are my feelings on ID cards.

First, I don't have a problem with individual fields creating or requiring ID cards specific to their fields or events. If they wish to do so, it would be out of the control of AO members or anyone else anyway. If they do it, so be it.

Second. There is NO governing body at Airsoft Ohio that has ANY authority to impose rules or sanctions or ID cards on any single player. The Admins and Moderators are only responsible for the forums. There are no AO Police and there is no official AO organization established. Therefore, I do not see how AO would have the resources needed to impliment and enforce such an ID card system. It would require extensive R&D as well as field-usable means for tracking ID cards, whether it be paper and pencil or computer based, or both. Then someone has to program and distribute the registration/tracking software, and then will field owners and/or organizers be required to pay for the software and pay for access to a player database? It's practically a business venture.

If you ask me, if someone wants to create an AO ID card for fun, just for people to have and show off and stuff like that, it's fine. Otherwise I think the management of such a system would be more work that it's worth will probably be uninforcable.

In short, my answer is: No.

Darkstar out.
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  #125  
Old 05-07-2008, 12:27 PM
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Darkstar brought up a very good point:

AO is a centralized location for the Ohio airsoft community as a whole to come together and discuss topics and arrange get-togethers. AO is not a governing body for airsoft in Ohio. The Ohio airsoft community has a lot of members that don't visit the AO site regularly but still make valuable contributions to it. My point is, while AO is a great place for Ohio players to come together, it's not the authority for airsoft in Ohio. It seems like a lot of people mistake AO mods and admins as being God-like figures of the community when in fact, they're just experienced players and veterans of the sport who give their time and money to better the community. AO is a culmination of contributions from many people that have made airsoft what it is in Ohio. The AO ruleset is a perfect example. However, it's not the site itself or the admins per se that make the community what it is (although they are major contributors; not detracting from them at all), it's the players and teams that make up the community and determine the direction of airsoft.

Darkstar is right on the money. There is no one governing body for airsoft in Ohio and it should stay that way. In my opinion the sport is thriving on the diversity of the players and teams (yes, even non-milsim players and teams). Everyone has a part to play.

This topic is just like many others that have come up on AO. Everyone wants to gravitate toward a governing body or they think it won't work. As a person who has attended a lot of the bigger events over the years, I can tell you that event organizers are innovating all the time. Some changes are adopted, others are not. This is the best way to implement new changes in the community in my opinion. It keeps airsoft evolution where it needs to be, at the grass roots level.

That being said, I don't want to see airsoft become anything like paintball or modeled after a video game. While those types of play may be valid for any toy gun sport, I still think airsoft needs to remain as much milsim as possible.
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