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View Poll Results: Should we let the hosting system be free for all?
yes, more events mean more choices for me 32 47.06%
yes, as long as the event are different style or field setup 16 23.53%
no, I hate having to choose an event over another 11 16.18%
no, you start doing this and you will create animosity between players/organizers 9 13.24%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-16-2007, 10:16 AM
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Event hosting: Comments needed.

For those who were here few years ago, it will not be something new and we had heated arguments about it. For the new members, it is something you need to tell us about so please share your opinion in a civilized manner.

Problem: When should we have events?

For several years, AO has been dealing with a lack of organizers and/or field to host events. Events were hard to find or really spread apart, from North to South and weeks apart. Organizers were blessed to be able to host whenever and wherever they wanted without too much trouble.

in 2007, we saw new fields and organizers emerging from the shadow, offering new fields and new style. Events can fit any types of players age, physical condition or mentality. with such varieties available, we are coming to a big problem that we did handle ok before: Hosting more than one event per weekend.

So here are the questions;

- As a player, what do you think about this? should you let any organizer set a date, no matter is already in the schedule?

- As an organizer, would you care hosting your event the same date than another event OR would you mind if another organizer would host something the same date?

Again, this is a serious subject so only serious answers and solutions should be posted.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:55 AM
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I would say put a distance rule in there, no events within 100 miles of each other on the same day. Say you have an event in Cincy, and an event in Cleveland. Are they both going to draw the same players? On the other end an event in Springfield is likely to draw the same players as an event in Cincy. A cool thing we could see is a day op in say Cincy, then a night op somewhere around Dayton or Springfield.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:59 AM
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The big problem with your option is who would have the day game and who would have the night game? and you brought another issue; Columbus and springfield are probably the most centralized field for event, is that mean those 2 fields could and will possible block all Northern and Southern events at the same time?
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:27 AM
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Of course. We need as many organizers as we can get. I know as soon as Im 18, Im going to try something. The thing we need more than anything are some winter event organizers. The more, the merrier!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:33 AM
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I wish you could select two options up top. I went with "as long as their not the same type" but I also wanted "animosity between players/organizers". I would always pick organizers that I've been to over someone else, especially if its a bigger event. The problem is that it swings both ways in terms of good and bad, but it is nice to know when and where places are especially if your pressed for time like myself on Saturday, and Sunday.

I say let them post when ever but I feel the large scale events should take place over the small ones. Also might be bad if more than one really large scale event is on the same weekend, but I think most those Organizers have contact with each other.
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:36 AM
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An event in Columbus or Springfield could block them all. What I was trying to get across was how can we tell someone in Cleveland not to have an event because there is one in Cincy. There should be a mileage radius. We do this all the time for car shows. The day-night situation would have to rely on compromise. I know it would be hard, but as rational and reasonable people we are, it should be able to get done. (the Cleveland-Cincy thing is just an example due to their extreme distance apart) All this takes is communication among organizers.
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:04 PM
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As a practical matter, AO cannot tell anyone to not have an event. Having options to choose from is usually considered a good thing.

Ohio now has a large community of airsofters, plus, larger events tend to draw folks from out of state as well. If you put on a good game people will come.

I think its up to the organizers to figure out when, where and what style of play for their own events. Sometimes a field is only available at certain times.

Having two very large events on the same weekend might cause some players to have to choose, but is that necesarrily a bad thing? TAC and Strikers already coordinate so that our events are not on the same day. But really, even if we had an event on the same weekend we would both still draw enough players for the events to be successful.

So I say stick to what we do now. Coordinate with other organizers if you want, or do your own thing if you want. If you are putting on your first event the same weekend as BF4 don't expect a lot of people or plan an event that appeals to a different set of airsofters. I don't see that abundance is a problem.
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:15 PM
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I think people should have the right to post events whenever they want to, but I completely understand what your saying Blade, and if I was hosting a large scale event that I put alot of time, effort and money into it I would want my game to be the only game in Ohio that day. I'm interested to see what will come out of this because for years everyone has wanted more games and now that we have them this could be a potential problem.
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2007, 12:25 PM
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Indeed, I honestly never thought small events were an issue but when you get to event like Black aurora2, Wolf Forge, Safari Strike 3, Northern wind 3, etc..it becomes a real issue. but again, I am just looking for what the new AO generation thinks about all this...
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:29 PM
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i personally would not want to see more than one event held on the same day as another. it just doesn't seem right to me. speaking for a team that is in the process of getting our next event put together, we tryed very hard to look for a date that either doesn't have another event being hosted on that same day, OR within a week before and after. this way it ensures the max amount of people will show up knowing that there aren't a million games to choose from.
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:33 PM
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I also see an issue with running events on back to back weekends. Doing so may not give enough time to recover/purchase ammo, parts (if anything should break), gear, etc. Pretty much it could become a mental (and maybe phisical) exhaustion to prepare, order items, money for gas, lunch, event fee and schedual the date to not interfere with LIFE. I for one mainly work on the weekends due to school and my situation. I may already have issues with the opening of Jamestown and a subsequent game for those who missed the opener.

I dont believe a "rule" should be in place for organizer, but have at least the common curtoesy to repect another event and orgaznizer planned at a certian date. Contact one another if able. PM one another and use the AO Chat and make an organizer chat room if need be (just a thought).

Distance?
This could be a matter of choice for a player. How much is one willing to drive? If an event is hosted in Columbus, that could effectivly draw the majority of the player base be it from Cincy or Cleveland as its right smack in the center. If two games are held, one in Cinci and another in Cleveland, those around Columbus may have a decision to make.

Type of field?
This may be a concern if one choses to have an event on the same day as another. Some prefer CQB/MOUT, others prefer greenside.

Type of game?
MILSIM vs "paintsoft"... From what I have seen, MILSIM maybe more sought after.

Organizner?
That is player/communtity preference.

Time of posting?
That could be a factor. If two people plan on getting an event going on the same day (or even back to back), but one gets it up, oh say two months in advance and the other much later, some may not be able to be ready in time for one as it wasnt known, but had time to prepare/schedual for the other that was ready in advance.

Small vs Large (Size and "fame"/"grandure")?
Size is based on the above questions and player base along with it being a well known event/annual. My thought, try to avoid annual/"large" event when many are dead set on going from the previous year.

Freinds/Team?
Some may go to one event, no matter the distance, no matter the field, no matter the type just for thier friends and team.

All of it is varied on player/community preference IMO and hard to determine what will attract who no matter the question. Thats why, in my thought, its best to stay away from two weekend games or even back to backs (if possible).

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  #12  
Old 03-16-2007, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAR15A2 View Post
As a practical matter, AO cannot tell anyone to not have an event. Having options to choose from is usually considered a good thing.
This board, for many people is a way to have access to local and regional games.

Maybe every once in awhile you get a noob fest posted up with the big games, or a backyard skirmish (such as mine), but as long as the event is happening, I don't see why any member can't post about it.

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Old 03-16-2007, 01:37 PM
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like i said it doesn't seem right to post an event for the same day as another. such an act could be seen as you trying to steal away the attendies who were planning on going to the event that was posted first. it just doesn't seem respectable to me. the other reason why we got the day we did, was so that no other event has to compete with us.so we didn't steal away people who were thinking of going to other events and they don't steal away people thinking of going to our event.
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:44 PM
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Spades, that is the way we have been working from a long time but with the number of events and organizers, we will soon have to announce any kind of events months in advance.......and this is where I am not sure if it makes sense at all...
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strikers_blade View Post
Problem: When should we have events?
Honestly Blade, I'm surprised that you brought up this issue after you accused me of stealing your thunder a couple of years ago, thus creating a massive flame war about your perception that offering players more airsoft events would cause problems in the airsoft community. Now here we are revisiting the same topic one again, so I guess we'll let the flame war ensue. Honestly I hope we dont have a flame war again, but flaming is always fun to joke about... isn't it?

Anyway, to bring people up to speed on what was discussed a few years ago, the issue at the time was a general disagreement among event hosts over hosting events on the same day, regardless of their distance from each other and regardless of the type of event being hosted. This discussion started after I had inadvertently scheduled an event at Red Dragon the same day Blade scheduled a milsim even in Springfield. The thread then became a flame war about large, uncaring corporations dominating the airsoft industry and it eventually broke down into a massive flame war, that in my opinion was completely unjustified. I believe the original post was deleted, however a new one took it's place. Unfortunately no conclusion was ever drawn from that thread and it eventually evolved into a thread about rules as such for the AO community. To those of you who wish to review the old thread, I recommend reading through it before reading on in my reply, otherwise certain things I may say will seem dramatically out of context. You'll find that thread here:

http://www.airsoftohio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7731

The whole event conflict issues basically started like this. At the time, I had not realized I had scheduled my event for the same day as Blade's, but my decision not to change the date of my events after realizing the scheduling conflict definitely seemed to cause quite a bit of anger and resentment directed towards me, as least that's how I felt about it. During my discussions with Blade to clarify my intentions of hosting same-day events, it became clear to me that he felt I was intentionally trying to step on his toes in order to take people away from his events with the sole intentions of profiting from it. This simply was not the case.

As an event host, I go through a process when deciding to host an event. Decisions must be made about what kind of event I want to host, who is most likely to attend, what age ranges are most common for my events, and so on. For those of you who know me and who've come out to Red Dragon for my events, you know that I'm out there to keep the gaming experience as fun as possible for people of all ages, and I try not to impose too many limitations on players that come out to play. I want people of all ages to have fun, so I try to structure many of my events around generalized goals, while keeping them fun, challenging and as frustration-free as possible. That's my hosting style.

Other people might host unregulated events (well, I guess all airsoft events are technically unregulated) where people show up to someone's back yard for a more private encounter. Many safety rules are often thrown out the window and there usually isn't a chrono on-field. They tend to be less structured yet they can also be fun for some people too.

Blade often hosts Milsim style events that appeal to more of a hardcore sim crowd that generally has more realistic equipment and are attended by people who like to play more milsim style games. These games often have strict ammo and weapon restrictions and more intense safety restrictions and higher than average FPS limits. I know Blade hosts more kinds of events than just Milsim and I don't want to categorize his events a certain way, but in general, the airsoft community does look at Springfield as more of a milsim field.

At the time when this argument occurred, it was my personal feeling that the Springfield event would not conflict with my event for several reasons. The Springfield event was a milsim event, were mine was an open/fun event. Springfield and Red Dragon are at minimum an hour and a half drive apart, if not a bit more, giving players who could not attend the springfield event another option to play that weekend at a different location. And lastly there were players who wanted me to host an event at RD the same day because people wanted to get out and play.

After the flame war, I tried to contact Blade to form a basis of understanding. Unfortunately, I don't feel we ever came to a middle ground on the issue of whether or not event hosts should have the freedom to hosts their events even if they may conflict with another event.

Since no conclusion was agreed upon at the time, I feel the need to once again state my opinion on the matter. I personally feel that as airsoft grows in Ohio and the surrounding areas, the demands for more events will ultimately follow. People have complained that there are not enough events, and I tend to agree with those complaints. However in order to offer more events in different locations, conflicts may arise and people will then make their own decisions on which events to attend. Those decisions will likely be based on economical factors (how much is the entrance fee, how much is gas going to cost to get me there, how much time is someone willing to expend getting to and from the event, and so on).

I think it is reasonable to assume that if events are hosted in close proximity to one another, then there will obviously be more of a conflict in those cases, however I don't have any issues or complaints if there is an event in Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland all on the same day, as people from Cleveland are less likely to attend an event in Columbus, and even fewer in Cincinnati, as driving time to the event can become a major issue. Younger players are also in a difficult situation as they are often limited by how far their parents are willing to travel in order to get them to an event. I would agree that it is less reasonable for a parent to drive from Columbus to Cincinnati to attend an event if there is an event scheduled in Columbus the same day. If I were attending an event, I too am also more likely to attend a local event than to go to one that may take an hour or two to get to. Convenience definitely plays a key role in my decision making process.

I feel that if people are willing to step up to the plate and host good, consistent and safe events, and those people are willing to host their events in a manner that reduces the possibility for a possible conflict with another event, then I don't really see a problem with it at all. It's not just a simple black and white issue though, as there may be underlying factors that would make one event more appealing to an individual than another. For example, if someone hosts a Milsim event in Columbus, and then Blade hosts and event at Springfield on the same day, people will need to make a choice as to which event they'll want to attend, and those choices may effect the turnout at those events as they are at least relatively close to one another.

I think it would be great to see quality events being hosted on a regular basis around Ohio regardless of major conflicts. If it does turn into an issue where people are purposefully stepping on other events in order to pull players away from those events, then I do see some reason for concern. But since we have yet to truly have that issue arise, then I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

I just want there to be more events for people around Ohio and being able to offer players more choices is, in my opinion, a good thing.

Darkstar out.
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spades View Post
like i said it doesn't seem right to post an event for the same day as another. such an act could be seen as you trying to steal away the attendies who were planning on going to the event that was posted first. it just doesn't seem respectable to me. the other reason why we got the day we did, was so that no other event has to compete with us.so we didn't steal away people who were thinking of going to other events and they don't steal away people thinking of going to our event.
If there is a demand from players for games in different geographic areas, it is okay to then host events in order to meet those demands? I agree that in some cases, people may see that as trying to steal players away from other events (please see my previous post), however if events are hosted in different areas, that perception will be minimized and will allow players more choices of events to attend.

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Old 03-16-2007, 02:43 PM
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We are all members of a community here. No one is above anyone else. We all have our own opinions, and they should all be respected. We as a community have no right to tell someone they cannot have an event. If they spend the money and do the work to put an event on, who are we as equals to say too bad, someone else was here first? You should use common sense and not try to steal players from another event, but I don't think Darkstar, Strikers, or any other well respected event organizer on here would do that. As a noob (and proud of it, you were all once like me), I want to see more events, more scenarios, more creativity and more fun. There are those who want to restrict this, and that is wrong.
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:43 PM
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oh my god, please give me the strength to not answer this thread the way I should, please do.....

breathing......breathing......breathing......ahhhh h, I feel better now, thank you for letting me think twice before posting.

Now, the issue we had few years ago is we had one event every month if not every 2 months, so yes, having 2 events the same day was kinda.....well....not really courteous, same style or not...from 40 miles apart or not....which is why I thought bringing the subject was appropriate. the community changed, perhaps our way to think will change too.
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Old 03-16-2007, 04:58 PM
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We are all members of a community here. No one is above anyone else. We all have our own opinions, and they should all be respected. We as a community have no right to tell someone they cannot have an event. If they spend the money and do the work to put an event on, who are we as equals to say too bad, someone else was here first? You should use common sense and not try to steal players from another event, but I don't think Darkstar, Strikers, or any other well respected event organizer on here would do that. As a noob (and proud of it, you were all once like me), I want to see more events, more scenarios, more creativity and more fun. There are those who want to restrict this, and that is wrong.

I'm not condoning every random person who wants to host a public event should be able to do so. Believe me, I've been to some terrible events put on by first-timers. That being said, I've been to some good ones too. My point is, and always has been, if you present your event well, have established safety rules in place, and responsibly promote safety and do the things neccessary to host such an event, then I don't have any problems with that person holding the event. I do have an age stipulation that anyone holding a public event should be at least 18, but that is primarily due to responsibility issues.

I, as a player, don't have any impact on event organizers and when they choose to host events. It is entirely up to them when to decide to host their event and when not to, and if I wish to attend that event, then I know I must make plans in my schedule to attend that event. If there is more than one event the same day, then I will likely look at both events and see which one appeals more to me and make a decision based on how far away it is, the associated costs to get there and back, the known field conditions, entry fees, etc. Once I look at those factors and determine which event I'll go to, I'll sign up at that time.

As an organizer, I have never been opposed to the possibility that there may be other events taking place in different locations on the same day as my events. It happens, and as more and more games are hosted, it will continue to happen. I had already come to this conclusion before I ever started hosting my own events, so my thoughts on the matter haven't really changed. If I host an event on a certain date, and someone somewhere else hosts an event too, it's not really my business to tell them what they should and shouldn't do, and if I am upset about the conflict, I'll probably not say anything about it because I can't change it anyway.

I can say that if problems arise from event conflicts as a result of people hosting events in close proximity to each other, then yes, there may be an issue at hand. Especially if the events conflict for the sole reason of stealing other players in order to hurt the other event. It might be difficult to prove though, but I think if event organizers take these issues into consideration, problems such as these will be minimized.

Now that AO has a calendar of events, I think it will be easier for people who are planning to host events to look at the calendar to see when different events are being hosted and plan accordingly. I think that will go far to reducing local event conflicts.

One idea that has been thrown around before is to only allow approved event hosts to post events on the calendar. This means that you'll have to be at least 18, have insurance, do safety and chrono checks on the field upon arrival to the event, and so on. Essentially, there would be a checklist of items that an approved event host would have comply with in order to post their events on AO. This will reduce issues with back-yard battles, lack of safety, and would provide airsoft organizers and players as well with more uniformity of safety rules and other issues at the events they attend from AO's calendar. I'm not sure if a system like this will appeal to everyone, but in general I think it would be a good idea too. And it may also help reduce event conflicts as well (since there will be a rule establishing limitations on proximity to other events or something of that nature). Anyway, just an idea.

Darkstar out.

Post edit comment: It seems that a moderator has edited my post with notification or permission from me. As such, if any information contained within this post was deleted or changed in any way, it was not done by me and it was done without my knowledge or my permission.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:19 PM
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oh i can see how it would be ok to host one event in cincy, and one in cleveland on the same day. that i think would be ok, since it's a big state and not too many people want to drive all the way down to cincy for a game when there's one in thier home town. thats fine, i was talking more like, say my team is hosting a pretty big event at springfield in July, that we will be posting up soon. it would be kind of rude, in my perspective, if someone hosted another big event say at xenia on the same day. what i am saying is sort of like what kurt said. if it's on the other side of the state, i don't care if someone else is hosting an event the same day, but if it were as close as fran bar, i might be a little upset about it, but not to upset, since it's only fran bar!
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strikers_blade View Post
Now, the issue we had few years ago is we had one event every month if not every 2 months, so yes, having 2 events the same day was kinda.....well....not really courteous, same style or not...from 40 miles apart or not....
It's actually 106 miles apart.... big difference.

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Originally Posted by CAR15A2 View Post
As a practical matter, AO cannot tell anyone to not have an event.
While this is true, AO can certainly decide which events can be posted on AO (if such a decision were needed to be made).
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Old 03-16-2007, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Spades View Post
say my team is hosting a pretty big event at springfield in July, that we will be posting up soon. it would be kind of rude, in my perspective, if someone hosted another big event say at xenia on the same day.
Agreed. Springfield and Xenia are very close, so I can imagine someone might get suspicious about the intentions of hosting an event so close on the same day. But if someone was hosting an event in Springfield, and someone else had one in Columbus, then I think that's enough of a distance to reduce the likelyhood that the event would have a large effect on the attendance of either event. And the greater the distance between two events, the effect will be less and less.

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  #23  
Old 03-16-2007, 09:32 PM
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I went through this crap when I lived in Chicago... I certainly hope I wont have to deal with it in Ohio too.

From my blog about the problem in Chicago:

Quote:
In the last couple of years I have seen a disturbing trend in the way some players, teams, and even community leaders and event promoters are behaving towards each other.

It is most common in those LUCKY areas that have such a large community that they end up having multiple places to play, and multiple event pr motors and field hosts.

Unfortunately, rather than the players, team leaders and event hosts and promoters working together or maximize the fun and enjoyment across the board, it seems people are instead getting aggressive, jealous and control freakish about thier own events. They end up starting these massive campaigns of propaganda warfare, attempting to sabotage every other game out there, claiming to do it because they are protecting themselves.

One team boycotts a field, then they try to get their friends team to boycott a field, then a field bans a team, then a team boycotts a particular promoter, then the promoters start intentionally scheduling events on the same day as another, claiming the other intentionally did it to them, then you have two event promoters competing for players, then the next time a BIG OP comes around, its turnout is half the size it could and should have been because teams are boycotting any event attended by some other team that pissed them off, or some event promoter that ruined their last skirmish.

Sounds dumb right? Sounds like something you would expect from teenagers right? Wrong.. these are the ADULTS doing these things.

We.... the entire community as a whole, need to start acting like adults, and making allowances and talking to each other and working with each other to get the community back together.

If we are to protect ourselves from the negative attitudes we face in the media and the public, we must stop fighting amongst ourselves. If we want to have the grandest large op events we can have, we have to stop fragmenting our communities and learn to work along with each others differing ideas.

We have our Hard core Mil Sim community
We have our Relaxed Mil Sim Community
We have our Fun most important Airsoft Community
We have our Speedsoft Community

The problem comes from those members of each of those communities that believe that all the other communities are doing it the wrong way. They believe if your not doing it their way you aren't doing it right. This amounts to nothing more than INTOLERANCE.

Well I'm sorry to tell you this... this is the real world. And there are players out there that just want to Airsoft. Those that would have no problem playing in any one or ALL of those groups as long as they get to play... you know what? I'll bet you these "I just want to play" types make up the majority of players.

By isolating your group from the rest, it only hurts the game and the community.

Even with these 4 different groups, there should be no problem having skirmish events for each group, several times in a month if you would all just GET TOGETHER AS LEADERS and work out a skirmish schedule that will allow every group to maximize their number of players per event.

You might find you'll start seeing new faces at your events that have no problem playing by your preferred method in your game, and playing by some other method in another game. YES THATS RIGHT, MOST PEOPLE WILL DO WHAT THEY HAVE TO JUST TO PLAY!.

Once all the field owners and team leaders start working together to maximize play time and turnout to weekly or monthly skirmishes, you might find your BIG OPs turning out to have 200 instead of 100, 300 instead of 150, 400 instead of 200 participants.

As for the fights that start due to claims of cheating, or overly aggressive over compensation (never stops shooting) due to cheating.... well thats a problem that needs to be addressed by simply adhering to the idea that we all like to SAY.... but not always DO... No matter what... play honorably.

Don't cheat just because you know the other guys are cheating.... Civilized ADULTS don't do that.

And if you find a player or a team that you think is cheating, don't lay into him. Instead, tell the promoter or field owner, get witnesses that ACTUALLY WITNESSED the infraction, make a strong case and deal with it like civilized people. If it turns out that person or team WAS ACTUALLY CHEATING, then they will be ejected. But I bet you will find it was nothing more than not feeling hits through the massive amount of gear, and not hearing the hits over the massive amount of AEG gearboxes whining around them. This and this alone, I believe is the primary reason for the majority of all cheating accusations.

We can't go around telling people Airsoft is a game of honor, when we aren't playing or acting honorably. There is no valid reason to act without honor... no matter what someone else is doing.

This "sermon" was for EVERYONE, cause to put it plainly... I'm getting sick and tired of the way people in the airsoft community have been acting. We need to effect some change PDQ.

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  #24  
Old 03-17-2007, 05:45 AM
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Battlepriest,

Yea, this is somewhat similar to what happened a few years ago and the arguments that followed. I've never intentionally tried to host events to steal players from another event. I've always tried to promote the sport of airsoft and bring in new players.

As you said, there are several types of players, from hardcore milsimmers to newbies who are not yet sure where they fit in the sport. Having a variety of game styles and people to play the games offers more choices to people in our sport. The more games people host, the more interest our sport will have and we'll grow as a community.

I haven't really seen any issues of event conflicts recently, so I'm not exactly sure what direction this thread is intended to go in. But I do think it's a good idea to let people know of the possibility of event conflicts in the sense of reducing people's perceptions that there is bad blood in the community with event organizers out to constantly outdo each other. I don't look at hosting events this way, and I don't think most of the respected organizers in Ohio do either. But that's not to say that there might be someone out there with plans to cause problems. Heck, there might be someone out there who wants to host events, has no clue what they're doing and they end up causing event conflicts too. I'm sure there are several scenarios that could play out as far as that goes.

Airsoft in Ohio isn't overseen by some massive organizational group that strikes down the penalty hammer whenever things get out of line. AO doesn't have any authority, whether legal or otherwise, to restrict or officially endorse events in any way either. So by saying an event is posted on AO doesn't mean it is officially sanctioned, accepted or is even safe. The way games are run, the decision for the location of the event, the safety limitations put in place (if any), and all other issues pertaining to such a planned event lay solely with the person or persons who plan to host the event, and they do not and are not required in any way to answer to anyone if they decide to host an event. If this causes problems in the community, or if it intentionally or unintentionally offends people because of potential date conflicts, there really isn't anything anyone can or will do about it. Sure, people can say a lot about it. The only thing that has ever happened in the past is that people will come onto the forums and complain about it, but in the end, nothing ever really gets done.

Opening a discussion to address potential issues that will likely arise due to potential event conflict issues is a good thing, and will help identify those issues to people interested in hosting events. However, I'm not sure if this thread will be a final measure to stop such problems, but more of a way to address the issue and educate the community. I can't sit here and say that every person who plans to host an event will have read this thread, understand what is said in the thread and take the action necessary to eliminate potential conflicts. I'm sure that not all event hosts will even read this thread, or even know of it's existance.

So, in order to try to come to some kind of understand among interested event hosts who will read this thread, the best thing that I can think of at the moment would be to augment the Airsoft Ohio rules section to include general guidelines which would outline procedures to follow when planning to host an event. These guidelines could be a general starting point for people interested in hosting events and would provide them specific information to help them make important decisions during the planning phase of their event. Things like checklists of required equipment that an organizer should have (like play rules, safety limitations and safety briefings, chronographs, etc) could definitely be included. On topic with this thread, there could also be a section regarding the potential of event conflicts, including a definition of what may be considered as a conflict, and guidelines to ensure event organizers are aware of the issue and to plan their schedules accordingly.

If this sounds like a good idea, the next step would be to decide who gets to write the proposed guidelines, and who will accept and approve them for general use by the airsoft community. Will we vote on them? Will we elect a panel of experienced event organizers to create the rules? I guess these are just questions that need to be addresses before we can move forward with doing something like this.

While I think having a set of guidelines would be a good idea, there is no guarantee that people will use them. And there may be some people who may disagree with this proposal and think that my suggestions offer no benefit to the airsoft community at all and that people should be free to host whatever kind of event they choose without having to conform to a set of guidelines here on AO. In my earlier posts, I said that this issue has been discussed before and no conclusions were ever made then as to what to do to prevent event conflicts. The same potential to talk about the issue, yet do nothing about it, still remains.

The question on when to host an event is a good question, but I think that any answers to that question will only add to theories on the topic and that no real solution will be found. As more and more people step up and host events, the potential for event conflicts will ultimately increase, and way eventually reach a point where events will compete directly with other events. As BattlePriest stated in his post, conflicts are not usually seen a good thing, but it's also not really a bad thing either. Of course good and bad will vary on a case-by-case basis. If someone wants to host a Milsim event on a given weekend, and someone wants to host a casual game the same weekend 20 miles apart, I'm sure that the demographics of each event will appeal to different people, so when you really look at it, is there really a conflict? It is relatively safe to surmise that different players will attend the event most consistent with their individual play styles, so the players who attend one type of event might not have any intention to attend a different type of event. However, if there were two Milsim events, or two causal events located close to each other, there would be a greater concern of a potential conflict. But then you'd have to look at both events and do a case study on each event and provide an objective comparison in order to form a solid opinion. Maybe it's not a bad thing, and maybe it is. If there are enough players to fill both events, then maybe there isn't a problem. Maybe one event has player caps and the second event would offer give other players the option to still play on the same weekend. There are really a lot of ways to look at each situation.

I guess what we don't want to see is essentially what I felt I was subjected to a few years ago when my event conflicted with another event. I really felt like I was being accused of something really bad and that people were trying to make me look like the Airsoft Hitler or something. When I tried to find a basis of understanding with my accusers, it just ended up in a flame war of more accusations and name calling. I would have much rather have found a common ground and come to an understanding instead of having an argument. I agree with what BattlePriest said. I don't want hosting events to be a thorn in my side every time someone else wants to host an event on the same weekend as my event. But if we talk openly and honestly about the issues, I think we can alleviate those tensions and reduce the potential for resentment and bad feelings.

Blade. I'd really like you to expand on your initial question of when should we host games, and give us more information as to what answers you're looking for. Asking a basic question is good, and seeing what people have to say about it might offer some insite to people's individual feelings about the subject, but I'd like to know if you're trying to come to an understanding about potential conflict, if you're wanting to propose guidelines for event hosts, etc. Any elaboration on the subject of your question would be great, and maybe it will help AO come to some kind of conclusion as to how to handle potential conflicts.

I hope to read more soon.

Darkstar out.
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  #25  
Old 03-17-2007, 07:05 AM
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My simple suggestions for event scheduling guidelines would be:

Events further than 150 miles away from an already scheduled event are exempt from being considered "In conflict"

Events that are of a different "Type" (Strict Mil Sim, Mil Simmish, Non Mil Sim, ect) that are hosted on the same weekend, but not the same DAY, are exempt from being considered "in Conflict"

Events within 150 miles, and of the same type ahould be considered first come first served on the calender. Meaning, everyone who is a current host, that uses AO. (Sorry but AO is the most logical networking resource) must post their true intended event date here, as soon as they know when they want it to be. If someone else has that date.. pick another... its as simple as that.

Hosts that are outside of AO, or that refuse to utilize AO as a networking resource, will be excluded, and any arguments they may have about scheduling conflicts will have no weight in the community. Refusal to use the tools available to prevent conflicts is no excuse.

Furthermore, anyone who is prone to marking dates, but not following through on projected events, and may be found to be unreliable, should not have access to the calender.

Major event or the larger monthly skirmish hosts, SHOULD meet once in a while to discuss future plans. A summit or sorts.

Sound complicated? Well I'm sorry but this is the SORT of thing that will have to take place if we as a whole community want to have a smooth running and peaceful year of many different airsoft events.

There are only my suggestions. In addition to these, I suggest all the event hosts start by holding a face to face summit to 1.) Hash out a set of agreed upon scheduling guidelines, that everyone agrees to. 2.) Just plain TALK to each other.

You will find that face to face discussion is a LOT easier, and a LOT less prone to outbursts and allegations. The internet shield is most often a hindrance to peaceful communication.

OK.. I'm off to Jamestown.
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