Basic brand reliability question

[treesleavedents]

I have been trying to research enough information recently to purchase a nice GBB sidearm. Unfortunately any site that sells them and has reviews is crappy because I spend 45 minutes picking out the bogus reviews or the reviews that are labeled 5 stars and are asking a question about magazine fitment. And don't even get me started on the reviews from kids who have had the gun a week and all they post is "you need this gun! it's awesome! I hurt my friends so bad with it! it pwns!"

I have a decent knowledge of this with AEG's but really don't have much experience at all with GBB guns other than a few meijer brand Co2 pistols that I own. I was originally looking at WE but have heard bad things about their 1911 series involving slide issues.

Here is my wonderfully noobish question... (cowers)

I'm looking for a 1911 or m9, full metal with a metal slide if possible. Aside from TM what brands are reliable? I favor reliability over looks or power, however price is also a concern. As much as I would like to just go out and buy a TM, I can't justify buying one at this early in my career.

Long story short I'm looking for pros and cons of the GBB pistol brands, specifically in the 1911 m9 area. Any info would be helpful other than bashing my poor noob head in for asking such a question, thanks!

[Fox]

This is actually a pretty complex question when you look into it, so in return I'm going to ask you some questions as well.

What do you consider to be 'reliable'?

Made metal?
Gas efficiency?
Spare parts? (Everything does break.)
Magazine reliability?

In general, you still have the concept of 'you get what you pay for.' Now, you've mentioned metal parts as being one of your main focus points - and to be blunt, a lot of the better gas gun companies do not use metal frames / slides - case in point would be KSC or WA.

However, moving on past that - the rules of thumb I would follow is a KWA or even *some* WE guns are good. (Mostly the new WE Single stackers.) However, in my personal experiences and I understand your new, but plop the money down on a TM gun. I've been using a full metal TM Sig 226 now for years and I abuse the hell out of it.

So remember that. Also keep in mind that no matter what brand you buy, gas guns do not work well below 50 degrees. And basically stop working in anything under 30 degrees.

[Karma]

You should seriously consider whether you really need a pistol at this point or not. If you plan on playing at fields that feature close quarters, you may still want to to have something lower-powered for the courtesy of other players. But if you're just getting it for a general backup/sidearm, I would suggest you consider spending the money improving your primary to decrease the chances of it failing or spending the money on additional magazines and ammo to increase your field time. Either of these options would negate the need for a pistol right away.

The only reason I say this is because I ran out and bought a pistol right away too, and while I didn't drop $200+ on it, I still ended up not really needing it. In fact I'll probably be selling it soon since I have an AEP.
Not trying to dissuade you from buying a pistol if you really want one, just mentioning things so somebody else might avoid my buyer's remorse.

[sauerkraut]

If you want something that won't break the bank, but will function well; KJW is a good brand for M9's.

The KJW 1911's are impressive as well for their price. I must stress though that KJW is not a top brand, but they are good for the price.

I would actually recommend avoiding WE single stack 1911's (sorry Fox). WE 1911's have horrid gas efficiency (so much that they normally throw in a secomd mag and even comment on how its a gas hog). Also, the fill valve is so deep you'll sometimes have trouble even filling it with green gas as the nozzle of the can will not reach and most propane adaptors will not reach either. Unless this has changed, but UrbanMarine bought one (latest version) roughly 4-5 months ago and it was like this.

[strikers_blade]

While I do not consider myself a big GBB user, I can say that I use my pistol at least once every 2 events or so. I own/ed KSc G17, KSC G18C, KSC G19, G&P G19, WE 1911 TAC.

I will not start talking about every possible choices out there but from what I can say, KSC used to be VERY reliable even though much more expensive than any other guns. The only drawback from KSC was their Full auto feature on the G18. After awhile, the gun would only shoot full auto, semi auto not working anymore. You could obviously fix it but every guns are fixable if we go that route. My most durable and reliable guns have been the KSC and G&P G19. Both based on the same GBB, sharing the same parts, accessories and mags. They are not cheap though.

I got my WE 1911 TAC last summer. Shoot strong, recoil is great, fits almost directly into my SERPA holster, lanyard loop sturdy enough (so far). I can really complain about the gun except that for what ever reason, I took it off my case one day and none of my mags were fitting anymore. I assumed I bent the mag well somehow and simply fixed the issue by filing the side a little. Now my mags are fitting well and the gun is still shooting good. I also heard bad review about the WE 191 but so far, my gun is as reliable as my G19s. the latter last me a good 4-5 years. Only time will tell if the 1911 can do as good.

edit: to compliment what other just posted above me;
Fox is right, the KSC and KWA are very well respected guns on the market. Other brands such as KJW, WA, WE and TM are right there but prices for some and quality for others can be an issue.

As Karma said, you need to know what purpose your GBB will have. I LOVE going in building with a pistol. Not only because it is the perfect size but also because it changes your way to move. With a AEG, you blast everything coming your way. With a pistol, I don't know why, you kinda act more "cautiously". Using GBB into a CQB/MOUT battle is just great IMO. Now if you want a backup gun only, just go with a AEP or as Karma said again, work on your primary weapon so it won't fail on you.

ps. My WE 1911 TAC is a single stack....which could corroborate what FOX said.

[mkeller25]

I agree with both Karma and sauerkraut. Consider going a different route for your main weapon, first and foremost. If you're unwilling to and you only want to spend X amount on a side arm, consider KJW. I've had mine for just 1 year but its great and I have had zero problems with the gas magazines. I have run into seal issues with the CO2 mags but not the traditional ones so I would suggest investing in those as they appear to be more reliable in my limited experience.

[Spectre]

In recent years sidearms have evolved past the majority belief that they served more as a fashion statement rather then a useful tool. However, with so many new guns on the market shooting in the higher 300's to 400's range, sidearms have become required more and more at fields. That alone is enough to give serious consideration in buying one.

I'll tell you this, my experience with the KWA Glock line was superb. Keep it clean and the mags away from excessive moisture and it will not fail. I had mine for two years before I sold it for something of a different flavor. I can't apply that to their M9 or 1911 series, but their Glock line in my experience was excellent. Another note, I do now have a WE "MEU" based 1911 which I purchased used from another member, and I can say that the slide housing is smooth, very fluent, and rigid. No problems there. Two others on SPEAR use them and so far they prefer to carry them over their previous sidearms. One thing I will complain about, the mags are finicky, and the bumpers break easily. On the Wilson Combat 47D lookalikes, its not a big deal they merely serve cosmetic benefits. Keep them lubricated and the valves tight would be my advice. The finish does wear off easily however.

I wish I could say go out and get a TM, but my experience there is limited. I can say that TM will be my next choice in a sidearm however.

[treesleavedents]

Fox, reliable to me is working in perfect order for the longest period of time without replacing parts. I take very good care of my guns (To the point where I still have $20 plastic springer pistols from when I used to have to get my dad to buy guns for me 5 years ago) However, s**t happens and things do wear out, not a big deal. However I don't want to end up with a gun that breaks after every skirmish.

As for metal, you're right I should have been more specific. Here I'm just kind of stabbing in the dark however as I'm really not to familiar with the internals of a GBB. The only pistol I have ever owned was a non blowback pistol. Somehow I think that's another thread completely and I will start looking into that on my own first before I ask.

gas efficiency, if I can fill it with gas and run a full mag of ammo through it without major performance loss, I'll call it a win. I was planning on trying Co2 as well since I know most GBB are capable of running it since you only have to use a different magazine. I know KJW makes Co2 mags for their m9 and 1911 so i assume other companies would as well.


As for magazine reliability, that goes along with how I see reliability. If the mags are consistantly leaky for one brand, I would like to know.

I am familiar with the temperature operating range of GBB so that's not a huge issue.

And as much as I wish I could justify going out and dropping 200 on a TM that will last me for years, I don't think I can justify that much money this early on on something I may not even end up using as Karma said. Yes the resale value would hold, and yes it would be easier to sell because of the brand, but I would still lose to much money to make it worth it in my eyes. personal opinion I guess.

[strikers_blade]

Don't buy something because of its resale value. you will lose anyway.
One thing that you should do is next time you go to an event, look around, I am sure some players will be more than happy to show you their GBB and talk about it.

[treesleavedents]

Wow, this is why I love this site! In the time it took me to type a reply there were 3 new posts all extremely helpful!

The reason I'm looking for a sidearm is exactly as strikers said, I love it for CQB situations. I am new to the scene of organized airsoft but have been playing backyard for years. And def not the barbaric backyard all of you just thought about!

We used a mercy rule of engagement at 15ft, where you say "surrender" instead of bang bang. We only used spring weapons or really cheap lpegs and limited the fps to 320 or below. And most importantly we ALWAYS wore safety goggles.

For this reason alone I am very comfortable with a pistol as well as my M4. In some situations I prefer the pistol as you do move completely different. Also I believe that the team in my area and the field location in toledo has some games that are pistol/shotgun only games and I would like to be able to play these.

[strikers_blade]

Next year, I will try to have few pistol only mission at Springfield. Not sure it will work but i might try (I can already hear the AEP, MP7 and MP5k Users whining )

[ninja_fish]

Originally Posted by strikers_blade

As Karma said, you need to know what purpose your GBB will have. I LOVE going in building with a pistol. Not only because it is the perfect size but also because it changes your way to move. With a AEG, you blast everything coming your way. With a pistol, I don't know why, you kinda act more "cautiously". Using GBB into a CQB/MOUT battle is just great IMO.

This is why I carry a pistol side arm. Inside buildings the pistol is your best friend. Lower fps makes it safe for CQB, and since its single fire only in buildings you arent at any sort of disadvantage over AEGs. Your maneuverability over a rifle is a night and day difference.

The other reason I carry a pistol is for when I encounter AEG troubles. Many events i dont even use the pistol but there are times when my main gun acts up and I dont have time to figure out whats going on with it. When that happens your pistol is worth EVERY PENNY.

so what im sayin is, do you really need a pistol? No. But its can be a real life saver.

and i gotta throw my thumbs up for KJW. They are cheaper than the rest and perform very well. Out of the 5 KJW's my team uses I have yet to hear a complaint about them and my m9 makes me very happy i bought it.

[treesleavedents]

It seems like the best for the value are KJW and KWA, if anyone else has anything else it would still be very welcome! thanks!

[MacGyver]

Mmmm.

Tokyo Marui makes things tasty. Tasty tasty plastic.. never disown TM's deliciously indestructible and reliable plastic.

WEs aren't terrible, I used to own a Caspian 1911. Was as inconsistent as a guy in bed with E.D. Now, it felt like the real deal, (comparing it to a Kimber) looked like the real deal, and even ~tasted~ like the real deal, it's performance was a bit sub-par. Manufacturing specs we're off, if you pressed the magazine in too far the bottom of the damned thing bent so badly that the potmetal snapped, rendering the magazine useless. (Not to mention I had the slide freeze on me once with propane, pulling it off I found the gun's innards covered in frost. That was a laugh!) Cooldown issues we're reasonable, but for a single stack it sucked gas up pretty quickly. However, the gun looked and felt great, and had a reasonable price tag for how often it was used.

KJWs are nice, never heard a single person complain of them. But if you want a reliable long-lasting pistol, don't disown the plastic-slided TMs. Or should I say, TMs and their slides that are made of cupcakes and Sean Connery's sexy grins?

Mmmm. Sean Connery.

[Texx]

You can't always trust Brand Name. While some companies put out some excellent choices, they also put out some that aren't as nice or are plagued with problems.

Your first stop apart from searching Google, there are two sites I would reccommend hitting up for research.

Arnie's Airsoft - www.arniesairsoft.co.uk

Arnie's has an exccellent review section on pistols and actually still maintains some requirements for reviews in terms of content. You won't find the "this am besets pistol evars" - type reviews here. There are also some really good articles. Spend the time to read them, they are well-thought and well-written.

JustPistols - www.justpistols.co.uk

This is personally my favorite airsoft site on the net. The author of the site painstakingly and thoroughly reviews pistols and SMGs on this site. He is VERY thorough documenting - springers, GBB, NBB, AEP, etc. It also appears that he accepts submissions of reviews.

This brings me to my final point. Read everything you can about the guns you are looking at. While you can't always trust what is posted on retail sites, it does give you alot of good basic information points to consider. Rather than considering any one source as being definitive, keep in mind they are reviewing THEIR gun. Consider tech articles, upgrades available, and parts availability before you spend your money.

Your gun will break down and fail at some point and that will usually be right when you need it. Whether or not you can find replacement parts will determine whether or not your gun going down will result in it being tossed in the garbage when it happens.

My personal recommendation for a GBB is the Marui Hicapa - stock. There are few guns out there with as many available sources for replacement parts.

[gtamobster]

+1 for Texx. Justpistols.uk is a excellent reference.

Honestly, while the new WEs, KWAs, and KJWs are good, TM kicks the hell out of them. And TMs are only 50-60 dollars more. In my experience TM mags are the only ones who consistently do not leak, they last for years, have the most upgradeable parts, and the most important thing; they shoot twice as far as any KWA and are much more accurate.

My suggestion: Save up and get a TM. Many companies make good AEGs now but in the GBB world, TM still dominates.

No sense having a back up if it sucks. If you want looks, just get a springer.

[treesleavedents]

Ok, so all my wonderful plans on saving for something nice and reliable went out the proverbial window when a friend of mine came to me with a KSC G18C. He said he didn't know what it was and thought it was illegal because of the trades, but sold it to me none-the-less. So I now own a KSC G18C. the only part that seems to be missing is the buttplate of the standard size magazine, which no doubt was broke off by some noob that didnt know how to take it off properly to refill the gas chamber... but I have yet to test fire the gun so who knows what kind of fun I'm in for. Any suggestions on what to do first before I try to test fire the gun would be extremely helpful! Thanks Guys!

[Itailian13]

Originally Posted by strikers_blade

While I do not consider myself a big GBB user, I can say that I use my pistol at least once every 2 events or so. I own/ed KSc G17, KSC G18C, KSC G19, G&P G19, WE 1911 TAC.

Sorry I was just reading through, but G&P makes GBB pistols?

[79stangghia]

+1 on the KJW 1911. They are rock solid and I have had mine for about 6 months with no problems. Even if it does go down, which is unlikely, it is TM compatible and was only 90 bucks with the evike special. I would highly recommend a propane adapter as well, but then thats a whole other post.

[Son of Liberty]

G&P does make pistols. I had a GP USP .45 based off of a KSC.

[BOA_BlackHawk]

I had a KJW m9 and it was one of the best pistols i had ever owner, now im looking into buying a KJW 1911. So in my opinion i think KJW is a really good gbb manufacturer.