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Old 12-06-2011, 12:14 AM
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m249 upgrades

hey i am wanting to get my a&k m249 saw to shoot at around 460 fps with .2 and i am curious as to what kind of spring i would need. i heard that the m249 has a longer pull so it requires a bigger spring to get the same fps, i am wondering if that is true, also what else would i need to upgrade in my gearbox to use a stronger spring and give me a higher fps right now i am shooting 400 with a prommy 6.03 tightbore and a stock gearbox, the spring may be an m130 or at least that is what the person told me i bought the gun from but i am not sure i buy into that anyway your thoughts will be much appreciated! thank you
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:21 AM
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to shot 460, you will need HIGH torque gears, a full metal tooth piston, a m150 spring or so, and a high torque motor. if you do not have one of the following when running an m150 spring, they will fail quickly.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Rambo View Post
to shot 460, you will need HIGH torque gears, a full metal tooth piston, a m150 spring or so, and a high torque motor. if you do not have one of the following when running an m150 spring, they will fail quickly.
You don't necessarily need High torque gears to shoot that low, my wife's DMR shoots 600 on 18:1 ratio gears (stock ratio) what is more important is that your gears are made of good material not the ratio per say. SHS gears are cheap and are cnc'd carbon steel they last much longer than their more expensive counter parts and at 1/4 -1/6 the price.

Piston doesn't need to be a full metal tooth but even I would recommend it, once again SHS piston racks are carbon steel (not cnc'd though) and a piston @ <$10 a pop how could you complain?

High torque motor is definitely where all the puzzle pieces come together, but @ 460FPS you don't need a G&P Satan motor. SHS again... makes some really good motors and they are also really cheap... I run them on everything, they're even good for high speed builds!

If you need help finding these SHS parts I know someone who sells them cheap, he runs out frequently but it'll save you like $50.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:09 AM
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And the most obvious question is WHY do you want to shoot 460fps ? No game that I know of, Local or National, would allow such a support weapon on the field.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyo View Post
You don't necessarily need High torque gears to shoot that low, my wife's DMR shoots 600 on 18:1 ratio gears (stock ratio) what is more important is that your gears are made of good material not the ratio per say. SHS gears are cheap and are cnc'd carbon steel they last much longer than their more expensive counter parts and at 1/4 -1/6 the price.

Piston doesn't need to be a full metal tooth but even I would recommend it, once again SHS piston racks are carbon steel (not cnc'd though) and a piston @ <$10 a pop how could you complain?

High torque motor is definitely where all the puzzle pieces come together, but @ 460FPS you don't need a G&P Satan motor. SHS again... makes some really good motors and they are also really cheap... I run them on everything, they're even good for high speed builds!

If you need help finding these SHS parts I know someone who sells them cheap, he runs out frequently but it'll save you like $50.
thanks for that input, i have learned somthing today
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:05 AM
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thanks for that input, i have learned somthing today
I'm really glad to be of service ^_^
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:39 AM
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And the most obvious question is WHY do you want to shoot 460fps ? No game that I know of, Local or National, would allow such a support weapon on the field.
I agree. 460 is way too high for a support gun with FA. Plus your rate of fire would slow down alot. The other little fact is that you will need to use .28s as a minimum, .30-.40s gram BBs so that you decent accuracy.

The SAWs/M60s from A&K have a longer gearbox. You already have an M140 spring if you are pushing 400fps. You will need an M160-M170 to get that kind of FPS. This is something I do not recommend.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:42 AM
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It's a SAW, Stang, he'd be better off using a lighter BB to get a larger spread, and therefore better suppression.

+1 on the SHS parts. Great stuff. 321 Airsoft will be stocking SHS parts very soon if you want to buy locally.


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Old 12-06-2011, 01:13 PM
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If you plan on using your SAW at Airsoft Ohio games, you will want to drop the velocity to 400FPS so it can be used at these games. There are a few specific games that now and again allow 450FPS, Operation Irene comes to mind, but they are usually far and few between. Not only do you have to watch your MED's at these velocities, but you would want to increase accuracy on your SAW to keep the hard hitting shots from riddling the OPfor's head and face, which is why there are safe limits excersized at Airsoft Ohio. Accuracy somewhat defeats the purpose of your support weapon, so keeping FPS down witha spread is one of the reasons the limits are set to their current standards. Safety first, as it should be when playing.

The gears in the SAW are pretty decent...nothing fancy but they hold up ok. One thing to consider is that most aftermarket gers are usually beefier and I have had to re-bore gearbox bearing wells to get enhough play for proper shimming. This in not something recommended for the average airsofter, so I would stick with the stock gears for now, otherwise you could wind up with an aftermarkety set that is too tight to shim.

A decent piston is a must, as the one that comes stock with both the A&K and CA are not the best. While I have seen them last a long time at stock or slightly higher FPS, running 400fps or higher adds extra stress that could require a piston change. I am not a big fan of the all-metal teeth pistons, as they do tend to wear more than other aftermarket pistons and have a higher tendancy to break gears, but for higher FPS and slower BPS they will do fine. Pistons with side supported teeth are stronger than others and usually have a half dozen or so metal teeth...these will also work and are usually a better choice.

Both the CA and A&K SAW's come with a bore up cylinder as stock and it works well. Your FPS with the 130 spring is low, so you may want to check your cylinder area air seal and hopup bucking to make sure there are no leaks. The stock hopup bucking is junk and needs replaced if it has not been already. Also, the hopup units for CA and A&K usually need work, such as cleanup in the feed tube, a longer/stiffer nub, etc... to get better response with your adjsutment. There is a good writeup on Arnies Airsoft forum on the SAW with fixes for the stock A&K M249 and most of them cost nothing but time to perform. The CA's usually don't require many of these due to better quality control.

Your tightbore barrel should be fine, as there are times where supressive fire is not enough and you will actually need to hit someone with the SAW...having it semi accurate with a tightbore, while not necessary, is ok. Motor replacement, while expensive, may be necessary for higher FPS setups, as the stock A&K motor will not be able to handle a M120-140 spring as well as an aftermarket motor. I am not a big fan of the stock motors, as I have seen the magnets actually break away and jam the motor assembly. I would replace it with a decent high torque motor.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
There are a few specific games that now and again allow 450FPS, Operation Irene comes to mind
Irene FPS limit for support weapons is 400 w/ .25g BB's. Or roughly 420fps with .20g.

Blade USED to allow 450fps for support weapons at Springfield, but several years ago he backed it down to 400 w/ .20g.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:05 PM
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It must have been Springfield I was thinking about then, maybe somewhere else, just don't remember...you know how those old brains get...
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