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  #51  
Old 07-05-2015, 07:43 PM
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I always found the switch to facebook aggravating. First off, important posts, whether game rules or role play, are easily lost amongst the traffic. Secondly, organizing here has always seemed far more effective, albeit not as convenient as facebook. Third, documents posted in group pages wont load on FB for mobile devices. Finally, people come to AO forums with air soft as the primary focus. On facebook everyone is distracted by everything else occurring with groups, events, and news feed. I always felt a noticeable difference in how attentive most people are in forum discussion versus facebook discussion.

I would love to see us return to using the forums as the primary source for AO activity online.
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  #52  
Old 07-05-2015, 09:42 PM
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I haven't posted in God knows how many days, but I do miss the days when I would log on and there would be more posts, good days indeed
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everyone keeps repeating what everyone else says. everyone needs to "post less and read more..."
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  #53  
Old 07-05-2015, 09:43 PM
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Though I must say, if we survived miyagi, we can come back from this

Too soon?
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everyone keeps repeating what everyone else says. everyone needs to "post less and read more..."
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  #54  
Old 07-05-2015, 09:50 PM
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I am still here and I always will be.
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  #55  
Old 07-05-2015, 10:00 PM
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The hard part is finding people who are willing (and able...) to take over the reigns of the community from the past juggernaut groups and members. With anything, when you have a cohort of people that become so tight and are so vital to how things run, the next number of cohorts aren't groomed to take over and are, if anything, marginalized to the point of relying on those central figures. It's hard to think about the future when so focused on the now (or now and past, at this point).

Maybe the community will experience a resurgence. There are always other factors in play, such as politics, economy, etc.

I simply don't have the time or I'd at least participate.
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  #56  
Old 07-05-2015, 10:32 PM
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Isn't there any good website/coder out there?!!
I am not talking about the rookie guy. I am talking about someone who knows what he is doing and would be willing to help the community for free or cheap
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  #57  
Old 07-05-2015, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpig07 View Post
Though I must say, if we survived miyagi, we can come back from this

Too soon?
Eyyyyyyyyyyyyy
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  #58  
Old 07-06-2015, 12:40 AM
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Isn't there any good website/coder out there?!!
I am not talking about the rookie guy. I am talking about someone who knows what he is doing and would be willing to help the community for free or cheap
Jonah, Sky, and I have discussed having me move the site off of the current (Expensive!) server and onto my servers which are currently hosting several sites. The real problem is that there has been no software maintenance performed in years at least, and some cleanup work will need to be done to move the data onto the new servers.

It's still a possibility, but nothing has been decided for sure yet.
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  #59  
Old 07-06-2015, 01:31 AM
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Ex 13-year-old s***poster checking in. Name still misspelled? Check!


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Jonah, Sky, and I have discussed having me move the site off of the current (Expensive!) server and onto my servers which are currently hosting several sites. The real problem is that there has been no software maintenance performed in years at least, and some cleanup work will need to be done to move the data onto the new servers.

It's still a possibility, but nothing has been decided for sure yet.
I'm most glad to get to this point in the thread. Reducing cost and updating the software would greatly improve the situation. Hopefully eliminating old bugs, updating the visuals, reducing clutter can all be considered in time. A big ol' visual and format update to bring this forum into the current decade would probably help quite a bit.
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  #60  
Old 07-07-2015, 11:27 PM
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AO is on Facebook?

Please don't tell anyone I am HTML literate.
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Thus marketh the only time anyone hath used the search feature on AO
in 2Tall's basement doing things

Last edited by Flenner; 07-07-2015 at 11:30 PM.
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  #61  
Old 07-08-2015, 02:06 PM
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I'm here, but it took me an eternity and a half to actually gain the ability to post. I'm some pretty new blood, but I don't do much of the facebook either, so I'm here.
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  #62  
Old 07-08-2015, 02:54 PM
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I knew this discussion was a good thing...it actually brought flenner into it but not out of retirement...yet!


But anyways this has been good to see a lot of people chime in with their thoughts
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  #63  
Old 07-13-2015, 03:42 PM
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Upgrading the forum software and moving the site to a new server won't bring the place back to life. The problem isn't with the forum, but with the community. People CHOOSE to use Facebook for whatever their reason may be. Less enforceable moderation, more social setting, etc. Thus changing the forum would likely be a wasted effort.

Also, moving to a new server will likely not be that easy. If you want to return the site to it's former glory, you're going to need dedicated hosting. A home system or a shared box will not be enough to handle the traffic. The forum SOFTWARE, however, could use an update. vBulletin is currently on version 5.1.5 and we're running 3.8.7. In other words, it's old as ****. Not to mention, vBulletin isn't the best software to begin with. It's overly expensive for what you get.

Back on the topic of how you can revive the forum however, you really have one solid option. Close the Facebook page and tell the community to deal with it. The forum is better. Always has been, will be for the foreseeable future.
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  #64  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:34 PM
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No offense but thats what all newbies say cus thats how we all got started for the most part.
Lol I'm still teaching him XD
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  #65  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:42 PM
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I agree with a lot of what is said here. Part of what made the Airsoft Ohio community so special was checking the forums every day and seeing tons of new discussion posts. Part of why the format shift occurred, or is rather being allowed to remain if you will, is that most of the veteran players that were the source of the knowledge or information have moved on. Several of us tried for a long time and still do from time to time to revive the forums, drive interest back, however the reality is the next generation of player for the most part, as Blade said, wants spoon fed everything.

As organizers, do we adapt to the times and keep doing what we do or do we cling to something that gets less players out, which isn't always a bad thing , an then die the slow death of attrition as newer players have no idea what is going on because they won't use this site.

As I see it, we could do one of a few things.

1. As suggested, pull the plug on AO Facebook and direct all traffic to this site. While this idea on the surface seems great, the issue is the website needs SOOO much work it isn't funny. When Blade, myself an Ray agreed to take over and split the costs of just the server upkeep we did it to try and preserve the knowledge and information here for players who want more than a ding on their smartphone.

The problem is, in order to upgrade and update the site it would be immeasurably expensive. To my knowledge, the last time an AO fundraiser was done, it was enough to keep the lights on for awhile, not upgrade critical components. I can't speak for Ray or Blade, but I barely have the funds to keep this site up month to month let alone upgrade it to get it to the newest V.Bulletin Format (5 or so versions behind I believe?) Even if we did, putting cash into something that barely has any traffic any more seems silly.

........

I don't pretend to know the solution guys, but I feel the pain of missing the good old days of having a community here rather than faces on a blue backed screen. What's the answer? Your guess is as good as mine.
I agree with a lot of things that were said in this post, including the 3 possible outcomes.
How much money are we talking in order to revamp the site?
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  #66  
Old 08-04-2015, 05:42 AM
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Bringing this back up...
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  #67  
Old 08-04-2015, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Duo Chan View Post
Also, moving to a new server will likely not be that easy. If you want to return the site to it's former glory, you're going to need dedicated hosting. A home system or a shared box will not be enough to handle the traffic. The forum SOFTWARE, however, could use an update. vBulletin is currently on version 5.1.5 and we're running 3.8.7. In other words, it's old as ****. Not to mention, vBulletin isn't the best software to begin with. It's overly expensive for what you get.
I agree with all of those things; However things had fallen off my stack until the site went down last week. I spent a good portion of the day logged in bringing the database back up, clearing out space (the disk was 100% full), and then manually checking and recovering the crashed tables on the database. Once that was back in working order I was finally able to take a complete data dump and copy it to the new server and spend some time getting it to convert to a new forum system. (I arbitrarily chose SMF because it has a converter available for VB 3.8, saving me the hassle of trying to write one.)

I also agree with the bandwidth requirements, but if I gave the impression these are servers sitting at my house I'm sorry; these are legit server systems collocated in two separate data centers running primary/backup DNS, mail, and web services, each of which has an un-metered 100mb link. This is the sort of thing I do for a living, so we're not talking about "hobby grade". On the plus side, since I can accommodate the additional load on my existing servers, the costs to me are minimal.

Right now the problem is that the owner of the domain isn't letting go of it, but also isn't funding the existing server.
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  #68  
Old 08-04-2015, 09:14 AM
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Prophet, can you contact me on Facebook about this "owner" thing please.
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  #69  
Old 08-06-2015, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
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AO is on Facebook?

Please don't tell anyone I am HTML literate.
high, five bro, that was my second language.
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  #70  
Old 08-06-2015, 04:18 PM
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Hey all. I don't really frequent the forums that much anymore, so I can't tell you some of the political stuff that's been occurring one way or the other. Bear that in mind whenever you read the following:

I think the failure of any community comes from a lack of structure, dedication and leadership.

From a (former) moderator/administrator's perspective, trying to manage this website was maddening. When AO was founded, it was done so to foster a sense of community, as well as provide a forum (figurative and literal) through which airsofters could meet each other, exchange information, schedule games, provide common rule standards, and have a place where we could just socialize. As the community grew, so too did the problems we started having:

1. We had a set of common rule standards for velocity and safety equipment. For instance: 400fps was the max for a full auto gun, anything over that dictate that the gun had to be semi-auto only. Overall FPS was 500FPS max. Someone wasn't happy with that, so they went off and started their own forum and created their own set of rules. That forum was basically a vessel to host games that sidestepped the AO standards. This of course didn't prevent them from posting the games on AO. The side effect of this though, is that AO fractured (for the first time, many more followed).

2. Extremely high member turnover. It's hard to make people follow the rules and have a sense of community when they're only here a year. They didn't really care, why should they? This is just human nature. For every 100 people that started playing, 90 would leave within a year. 8 would be...less than contributory, and 2 would be great people.

3. Cliques. George Washington once was alleged to have warned people of the dangers of political parties, and this is an example of what was wrong with them. We had entire groups of people would literally do nothing but troll new members. Of course these were rules violations, and despite repeated warnings to stop, they would continue doing it. This of course, would lead to "time-outs" and eventually "bans". This of course inevitably would result in Godwin's law becoming a reality.

4. Entitlement culture. This is sort of a combination of 2 and 3 on this list. You had a group of newbies that didn't really want anything other than handouts or free information, often demanding it immediately, contrasted heavily with the "experienced" that were around that became increasingly jaded with new people coming and going and just screwing stuff up. In the end both had bad cases of entitlement. Both felt they were entitled to having things their own way, and that their way was the only way. I know, I was one of them.

5. Once most of the experience people moved on, nobody stepped up to replace them.

I'll close this with an analogy:

AO was once a classroom for learning. We had a set of rules, but for the most part everyone worked fine in them. One day, "that guy" came into the classroom and started knocking **** over, breaking stuff, that sort of thing. The teachers (moderators and contributors) tried to maintain order, but "that guy" turned into "those guys" and **** kept getting knocked over and broken faster than it could be fixed, all the while, the people breaking **** called anyone that didn't agree with them a "moron" or anyone that tried to control them a "Nazi".

This place is having issues not because of Facebook, but because of the lack of people willing to contribute to the community in a positive way, and an overabundance of people that are happy with mediocrity. The problem is that the second group won a house that they burned to the ground.
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  #71  
Old 08-06-2015, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
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AO was once a classroom for learning. We had a set of rules, but for the most part everyone worked fine in them. One day, "that guy" came into the classroom and started knocking **** over, breaking stuff, that sort of thing. The teachers (moderators and contributors) tried to maintain order, but "that guy" turned into "those guys" and **** kept getting knocked over and broken faster than it could be fixed, all the while, the people breaking **** called anyone that didn't agree with them a "moron" or anyone that tried to control them a "Nazi".

This place is having issues not because of Facebook, but because of the lack of people willing to contribute to the community in a positive way, and an overabundance of people that are happy with mediocrity. The problem is that the second group won a house that they burned to the ground.
I agree with just about everything you said, but this in particular stands out to me.
All communities have this problem, I feel, at some point. It seems to me that it's always a matter of...
"Well, the war is over. We're left with a deserted wasteland. How do we survive?"
Well, by finding shelter, running water, food, etc.

We already have shelter. It's AO. While it may be damaged, it's still a place to start.
Running water? That to me would be the flow of newer players in the sport. As you said, they're constantly coming and going. Our sense of community needs to give them a reason to stay, and act as a well for relation to my analogy.
Food? Well that would be the veterans, or experienced, teaching the new. Not telling them "This is how we do it, end of story."
Things are always changing in airsoft. When I use to play as Zeph, back on Recon Team Anaconda, gas blowback guns were like brand new to us, and Polarstars weren't even a thing. Surviving off of food in a wasteland is process of trial and error. Some people may eat radiated berries and die, (give bad advice or turn down a newbs idea) and it could have a bad affect on the community. That's what's happened, but the solution isn't to hide until the well has run dry and we've run out of Bush's Baled Beans.
We need to go to the river and start fishing!
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  #72  
Old 08-06-2015, 08:00 PM
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Unfortunately, as you said, there are trolls and internet thugs, who would much rather argue than find a solution, but that's when Admins need to step their game up more.
If they get banned because they can't follow a simple "Don't be a ****" rule, then screw them. Personally, I don't want a community full of trolls anyway. Ban them all.
My two cents
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:18 PM
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Loki, i have to agree with what you have said, but i would like to add my own sense as well, having dealt with a dying forum community myself. what it is, is that when you have a group of people this tightly knit, as everyone else has left, it's harder for new people to join. also, i should probably raise a new question, with CIA closing so soon, could airsoft be on the decline in ohio right now?
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Old 08-10-2015, 01:04 PM
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Airsoft could very well be in decline. CIA is gone, Airsoft Smith is gone. I don't know the best way to do it, but I think we need a better way to get the word out and get people playing. I see how other airsoft stores in other states have team nights and events at the store, and I don't see that here. I think that would help bring people together and encourage new players.
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  #75  
Old 08-10-2015, 01:04 PM
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I thought CIA was re-opening?
Beside, you can't base a decline just on CIA lol
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