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Old 09-05-2008, 07:04 PM
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8mm BBs and AirsoftOhio

I was wondering what the general consensus of the Airsoft Ohio Community towards the use of gun that fire the 8mm BBs? I am specifically thinking about 8mm pistols and the Marushin M500 shotgun.

From all accounts the 8mm carry more inertia but are not really any more or less dangerous.


What are your thoughts.
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:08 PM
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i have been hit by the Marushin M500 shotgun... i don't want to get hit again!! three 8mm BBs pack a big wallop! but then again, with propane i believe Mr. Black chronoed that thing at about 490fps... so yeah, more mass at that speed............
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:15 PM
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Yes but the thing I am concerned with is if they are safe. Its a shotgun its supposed to hurt. Think of what a deer slug or some 00 Buckshot would do. Also the 490fps is a lot higher than every other report of the guns power I have heard, most of the reports I have heard are the gun shooting in the 350s- 360s with the .29 bbs. Are you sure Mr Black was tampering with it
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:56 PM
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No, Sidd. It's not uncommon for the Marushin m500s to chrono at 500 FPS with ONE BB. As far as I know there is no accurate way to chrono all of the shots at the same time. And most of dealing with MEDs and power will have to come down to doing the math from the one BB shot.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:08 PM
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Over 25 feet med and under 600 fps I think I would be willing to get shot with an 8mm. To be honest, I think that I would prefer it just to make sure I REALLY take notice of the hit.
That is Milism in my opinion, if you get shot, in actuality it would hurt. I would like guns to be louder as well, but that's a different subject.
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:37 AM
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I think that 8mm weapons need more research before any rules can be made JUSTLY.
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:43 AM
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I think that 8mm weapons need more research before any rules can be made JUSTLY.
Why? There is an established formula in use to determine the impact energy of the projectile. It doesn't change just because the projectile is bigger.

This is going to be one of those "debates" where everyone that has an 8mm gun is going to be a huge proponent of the system, while everyone else is going to question the use of them.

I'm also betting that some elements of the "You guys are sissies, it doesn't hurt that bad" discussion will creep in here at some point.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:12 PM
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I am not here to cause any friction about whether or not some one is or isnt a sissy for wanting to play against an 8mm shotgun. I just want to have a airsoft shotgun that is, durable, reliable and skirmishable. I dont want to have to worry about pick up little plastic shotgun shells either.

I am more than willing to be shot by any gun I want to use, at a safe distance of course. I am just wondering what that safe distance is and what the AO community's thoughts on the subject are.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:29 PM
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I'm outside of the AO ruleset playing in Wisconsin, but the field I play at occasionally has WWII players using the 8mm Gas Garand. Most of these guys shoot the .34g BBs as their guns are tuned up a bit.

Personally, I don't feel much difference between this and a 6mm shot. Their guns chorono in at around 320 fps with the 8mm.

Remember this gun is either going to be shooting one or three shots at a time. so its not like he would be lighting someone up.

In the end, its going to be up to the field and game organizer to OK the gun. I think it would be wise for AO to address the 8mm guns because they are on the market and seem to becoming more common. WWII players seem to have more of a selection of 8mm weapons and may wish to cross over into regular events.

As far as the "sissy stuff," pain is subjective. These guns are pushing a heavier projectile. But not really that much more than some of the precision ammo a sniper would use.

Remember, I am playing in Wisconsin, so we do have a slightly different rule set.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:03 PM
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Also keep in mid that since the 8mm is a larger projectile it will also loose its initial power at a much quicker rate as it travels due to wind resistance and gravity.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:16 PM
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OK, Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go ahead and calculate out all the 8mm velocity values based one the current AO MED rule sets based on a .34g 8mm BB

I will be using this Formula:
Energy (in joules) = 1/2 mass * velovity^2

and these rules, taken from the "rules" link at the top of this page:
The following engagement rules must be obeyed at all times (FPS measured with 0.2 gram BBs):

* 0-350fps (1.14 joules): Full Auto, no minimum engagement distance.
* 350-399fps (1.48 joules): Full Auto, 25' minimum engagement distance.
* 400-449fps (1.87 joules): Semi Auto only, 50' minimum engagement distance.
* 450-500fps (2.32 joules): Semi Auto only, 75' minimum engagemnet distance.

Has anyone noticed this typo before?

My Results(rounded to nearest 5) of FPS:
*270 FPS or lower (1.14 Joules): Full auto, no Minimum Engagement Distance
*270-305 FPS (1.48 Joules):Full Auto, 25' Minimum Engagement Distance
*305-345 FPS (1.87 Joules):Semi Auto only, 50' Minimum Engagement Distance.
*345-385FPS (2.32 Joules):Semi Auto only, 75' Minimum Engagement Distance.

I'm not really sure how to set that up based on the Marushin shotguns, My best guess would be to calculate the joules with one BB and then base that on a total payload of 3 .34 g bbs (1.02 grams!) but I'm not sure how accurate that would be.

Warning: Major speculation, do not accept this as the truth.
I got this result based one a few online reviews and a average FPS with one BB of 465. This is equal to about 3.4 Joules. which would mean it would be propelling the pay load of 3 bbs (1.02 Grams) at about 268 FPS Each. Putting them just inside into the safe CQB zone.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:38 PM
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I don't think it would be best to calculate the MED base on one BB as they do not shoot just one BB, and I think the conversion to 3 BBs would be mathematically flawed.

here is a joule base comparison I found over on Arnie's where they are having the same debate.

Quote:
ust so people dont get confused.

A 6mm, 0.20g, 1J = 328fps
A 8mm, 0.34g, 1J = 252fps

So thats the standerd power for most guns

The upper limit of 350 looks like this

A 6mm, 0.20g, 1.13J = 350fps
A 8mm, 0.34g, 1.13J = 268fps
and here is a link to the Arnie's thread for those that have an Arnie's account.
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...owtopic=128989
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:06 PM
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i think that it is the same with a .2 and a .34, the gun is putting out the same energy that doesn't change with a 6mm or a 8mm

just my 2 pennies
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:57 PM
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I think they would be just as safe if that is what you are concerned about.
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:38 PM
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Hey, if you are willing to spend the extra money on 8mm BBs, I say go for it, but I think accurate Joule conversions are necessary.
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:55 PM
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I have no problem playing against 8mm guns personally. I've owned them, and been shot by them. But here is a question - the surface area of an 8mm BB is greater than that of 6mm BB. How much of an impact would that have on the...impact of the BB? I've been out of school and algebra for way too long to remember how math would play into it so maybe someone could shed some light on this.

To me, as long as they don't shatter goggle lenses, pierce the skin and given the user is respectful (by which, shooting someone 20 times with an 8mm at point-blank range might land you getting a rifle stock across the face in some cases), I really don't see the problem with them as long as the user is responsible with his gun.
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
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Also keep in mid that since the 8mm is a larger projectile it will also loose its initial power at a much quicker rate as it travels due to wind resistance and gravity.
Wind resistance, yes. Gravity no. Gravity has the same effect on all objects, it does not change varying on size "weight" (which is force determined from gravity and mass) and mass. So gravity will not cause a 8mm to loose energy over a distance more the it would on a 6mm. If that were the case, then Galileo's two metal balls would have impacted at different times.

The only reason why I can justify a 8mm being just as harmful as a 6mm fired with similar velocities would be that an 8mm with its size increase would gather greater resistance in the form of friction and wind deterance. It would loose its kinetic energy at a higher rate then a 6mm at the same distance, therefore making its energy at impact closer to that of a 6mm at some distance greater then 10 yards or so. The distance is only a guess, I could be anything. However, its my belief that the 8mm would deliver much more energy at shorter distances while the 6mm *may* deliver greater energy at greater distances.

Keep in mind its not the size of the bb you are concerned about, its the weight, speed its traveling, and its surface area. In the case of 8mm, its 256*pi or 803.84 mm^2, 6mm, its 144*pi or 452.16 mm^2. A 6mm BB has only %56 that of a 8mm. Thats a decent number. Which means resistance will "damage" the 8mm more then the 6mm. Personally, I think Phil's numbers are the best to go one at the moment.

For me, I wouldn't know and wouldn't care if you hit me with an 8mm or 6mm. Either way I call my hit.

Last edited by Spectre; 09-07-2008 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:33 PM
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All this talk about wind resistance is fin and dandy, but I feel that because the BBs carry a heavier weight that they will be more inclined to carry that weight farther than a 6mm BB. Of course, this is not 8mm specific, a heavier 6mm will carry its energy farther than a lighter 6mm and the same can be said with 8mm. However with the 8mm light BBs being .34g that is far heavier than most 6mm BBs, so how can we determine how much wind resistance and things of the sort will counteract the inertia of the BB carrying them with greater force? I personally think that the only way we could set up rules is through trial and error, unless of course someone has a way to get true values for the impact force of the guns in question at the current MED ranges.
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