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Old 12-06-2007, 11:54 AM
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Trying to pick a red dot

I'm in the market for a red dot and I was hoping to get some advice on which one would be my best buy. I've got a stock Echo M16 shooting 330-340 fps right now. I'm eventually planning on getting a tightbore and a spring upgrade to hopefully push it closer to 400, but that isn't an imminent thing.

Right now there are three different models I'm giving serious consideration.

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...roducts_id=252

Obviously the price on this one is appealing, and the reviews don't point to any serious weaknesses. Still, I can't help but worry about the construction/reliability of a sight that cheap, and the one review which mentions the lens shattering after a BB hit and not being able to repair or replace it gives me pause.

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=1168

This Guarder ACOG lookalike is my ideal choice at this point. The reviews are flawless, it's the best looking in my opinion, and I would think (perhaps naively?) that the higher price means it ought to be better constructed and more dependable. The problem is that it's at the very high end of my price range.

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=2321

This one is sort of the compromise option. It's main selling point is the option of using a green dot, though I don't know how useful that would be in reality. It costs a little more than the Leapers for peace of mind and a lot less than the ACOG, and it's right in between the two in terms of looks to my eye as well.

So which one of these three would I be best off going with? Or perhaps the best option is none of the above, something else entirely? I'd appreciate any guidance anyone cares to offer.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:20 PM
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If you really like the ACOG design, then get one of those. I however like the Aimpoint design and would prefer to have my ACOG be an ACOG and actually have 4x magnification. I have ordered from a lot of shops and a lot of people on ebay. You can tell a scam right away if you know what to look for.

I recently ordered two of these. They were at my doorstep in 5 days and packaged perfectly. They were also real G&P products. Not chinese replicas like I was afraid of.

If you want the best airsoft Aimpoint made at the best price you can find these are the ones to buy!
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...roducts_id=252

Obviously the price on this one is appealing, and the reviews don't point to any serious weaknesses. Still, I can't help but worry about the construction/reliability of a sight that cheap, and the one review which mentions the lens shattering after a BB hit and not being able to repair or replace it gives me pause.
I have a similar one up for sale right now. It includes clear lens covers.
http://www.airsoftohio.com/forums/sh...53&postcount=1
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Last edited by Evil Head; 12-06-2007 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:14 PM
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Obviously they're a lot more expensive but I absolutely love my EOTech! I will never use anything else again.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:18 PM
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Have you given the replica EoTechs a look down? They are great reflex sights and they are available at good prices.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:29 PM
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Well, to tell the truth, I've never cared for the EOTech lookalikes from an aesthetic standpoint, and I've always sort of suspected they would be more fragile than tube-style sights, though that may be an ignorantly unfounded idea.

At the moment I'm giving serious consideration to the G&P sight that Scorpion linked to. I appreciate all of your suggestions and thoughts, though, by all means keep them coming.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:36 PM
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That sight he linked to was very nice. I prefer an aimpoint type sight, and I found this one at Wally-world of all places. Tasco brand, but otherwise identical in appearance to the Simmons scope mentioned above. This link seems to be for a red dot only, but the one in stores has 5 red and 5 green settings, and is actually a few bucks cheaper. I really like the clear lens covers to protect it from bb's and branches.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5684940

edit: oh yeah, the 42mm field of view has proved to be really nice.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:18 PM
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other than to look cool, i really see no point in spending serious money on a red dot system for something as in acurate as an air soft weapon. id go walmart 25 bucks looks good and is all u need for a quick reference for double taps or rapid fire.
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:10 AM
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hcso3716 - How many optics do you actually use? What is your experience with red dots? Clearly it's little to none or you wouldn't make the statement you did.

Before everyone else flames me for this post I'm saying one thing and one thing only. There are two types of red dot sights, the first is parallax error free and the second is well, not error free.

Parallax error is where if you aren't looking dead center down the tube the dot will appear slightly off center. Guess what? Your shots will still be centered, but the dot won't be! So when you are trying to get a quick snap shot, and you miss, you can thank your parallax error. The G&P is parallax error free, neither of those Tasco's at Wal-Mart are.

Just because you think that spending money on optics is foolish do some research before you post. You're welcome to your opinion, and that's exactly what that is. So I'm not here to argue that. But if you're providing misinformation(like you are now) then that only leads to an under-informed buyer and dissatisfied player.

Only logical and constructive criticism from a Veteran player, nothing more, nothing less.

EDIT - Oh and in case I get asked, I've been through 6 of these G&Ps and not one has had a parallax error whatsoever. I've tested Tasco, Leapers, BSA, and RED-dot Pro sights, all have parallax error.

Last edited by Scorpion; 12-07-2007 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:41 PM
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Templar,

You mentioned wanting to stay away from the EOTech style scopes, but I just bought the G&P version (UFC 551) off ebay and could not be happier.
It is very solid and functions very closely to the real EOTech scopes. I could be wrong, but I believe it is even holographic to a certain extent.
None of the other "clones" offer the same quality as G&P and regardless of which style red dot scope you settle on, I would highly recommend G&P as a manufacturer.
On a side note, I also own both the G&P Aimpoint style red dot scope and the Guarder ACOG style red dot and would have to suggest that you go with G&P over the Guarder. Functionally, the Guarder is ok, but it's just not on par with G&P in terms of exterior excellence.
Just something to think about...
The Tim

P.S. - just to put a bug in your ear... G&P does make a very realistic replica of the ACOG for "just a few bucks" more - you may want to Google that...
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:19 PM
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Hate you break it to you guys, but most of the Chinese optics coming out these days are just the unbranded G&P's.

And I have heard nothing buy good things about the Chinese EOTechs. Given they aren't true holo sights, but they play the part pretty well.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:35 PM
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First off my point was on the price. It is pointless to pay the money if you think it is gonna make your shoot better. Those little bb's are inacurate as can be. Wanna learn to shoot and shoot well I would suggest Point shooting, with pistols and carbines. Cause when your optics fail someday, you wont need em. Love HCSO3716
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post


Parallax error is where if you aren't looking dead center down the tube the dot will appear slightly off center. Guess what? Your shots will still be centered, but the dot won't be! So when you are trying to get a quick snap shot, and you miss, you can thank your parallax error. The G&P is parallax error free, neither of those Tasco's at Wal-Mart are.

EDIT - Oh and in case I get asked, I've been through 6 of these G&Ps and not one has had a parallax error whatsoever. I've tested Tasco, Leapers, BSA, and RED-dot Pro sights, all have parallax error.
I'm not trying to flame you, or start anything, but in the process of sighting in my cheapo Tasco I did take some of my shots with my eye off center just to see if I needed to be dead on center or not (I'm not a big hunter, and new to airsoft, so I was learning by trial and error). I did not notice that I was missing where I was aiming any worse than any other shot I took when I was off-center and looking down my scope. Unfortunately I'm spending the weekend at my girlfriends parents house (only reason I'm not at Shadowsword to meet some of you all) and I think they'd give me some weird looks if I pulled a look-alike assault rifle out of my trunk and asked to do some plinking in the back yard. Not to mention the fact that I don't think the Bexley police would like it much. But when I get home Sunday I will test my scope for parallax error, and report my results here. I'm not doubting you at all, I just need to see it for myself.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcso3716 View Post
First off my point was on the price. It is pointless to pay the money if you think it is gonna make your shoot better. Those little bb's are inacurate as can be.
So all of the hordes of airsofters out there with red dots are just sticking them on their weapons because they look cool? Not that they don't look cool, and not that I don't appreciate said coolness, but I'm finding that a little hard to believe.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:00 PM
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More to the point, all the hunters, SWAT Teams, and military units who use them? I'm pretty sure very few (if any) people in the above mentioned groups give a rat's $@@ about "looking cool".

Now, I'd be the first to admit that someone in the military is using a sight leaps and bounds better than the POS that I have on top of my POS gun. I'd also be forced to stipulate that an AEG is inherently less accurate than it's real steel counterpart. But that doesn't mean that having some form of aimpoint is useless. It may not be a huge difference, but I already know my aimpoint makes life easier than trying to find iron sights in the middle of an airsoft engagement.

Point shooting looks like a cool concept, but you have to remember that a lot of the people you're talking to here just aren't willing to put in all the time to learn to point shoot.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:17 PM
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All im saying is an airsoft gun is not acurate enough to say hey im gonna throw this sight on here and rely on it to hit what i point at everytime. Also point shooting is easy to learn, would be glad to show you if your ever around when i get a chance to come out and play. not trying to start a war here fellows. and youll find it useful in urban settings and other close combat situations. And I got to tell ya, there are alot of SWAt teams who use those, there are many that don't. For one cost is a huge issue! Bigger agencies with expendable budgets tend to trick there gear out. I also find those sights to be a distraction. When clearing rooms or when your attention is divided, I (personally) found myself focusing on the sight alot. I guess it all comes down to preference, just giving my 2 cents. Peace
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
All im saying is an airsoft gun is not acurate enough to say hey im gonna throw this sight on here and rely on it to hit what i point at everytime.
I'm pretty sure there's nobody here who's laboring under any such delusions.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:23 PM
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Well good my work is done.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:02 PM
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Bumping this thread back up for a follow-up query...

Questions for anybody using one of the G&P aimpoints which Scorpion recommended:

1. How much do the front iron sights get in the way when mounting one of these on the standard rail of an M16/M15/M4?

2. Is it possible to mount one of these on a carry handle without additional purchases?
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:11 PM
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I'm pretty sure that my buddy had to buy a riser before he could mount a scope on his Echo M16. Given that Echo's are full TM compatible, I'd think you'll probably need a riser for most guns in that series.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:14 PM
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1. Front sight does not get in the way. I had the rear sights mounted behind the G&P so you were able to use the iron sights through the aimpoint. Getting the aimpoint with a cantilever mount will keep your front sights from getting in the way of you are concerned. They do sell them with this style mount.


2. You will need a carry handle adapter to mount the aimpoint.

these can run anywhere from $14 and up.
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Old 12-12-2007, 05:33 PM
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Ok, I promised I'd check out my Tasco scope for the parallax error mentioned by Scorpion earlier. While I haven't had a chance to do any target shooting to determine how bad the problem is, I can see what he's talking about just looking through the scope. However, I'm not sure that it's a big enough issue that I'll go running out to replace the scope. First, if I'm trying a snap-shot, I'm probably within 50 feet or less of the target. At that distance, the error did not appear to be significant enough to make me miss a man size target. Second, if I'm trying to snap a shot off, I'm probably going to go full auto, and put a brief burst downrange, and try to catch my target that way. Again, the scope is just there to give me an idea of where my bb's are going.

Hopefully I'll get out to play soon at my buddies farm. When I do I'll take targets and my camera and get some more objective results.
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