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Old 11-06-2007, 07:41 AM
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Support Weapons

For my team, we do not have a support gunner, so I have decided I will take that position, however, I don't really want to spend the money on a SAW. I was wondering if an M16 LMG or similar type of gun would be considered a support weapon, so I could carry a larger sum of ammo onto a field (if you don't know what I'm talking about, rules say Support weapons can carry up to 2500 rds).

I want to get a SAW but I'd rather convert an M16 into an M16 LMG.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315...g/m16a2lmg.htm
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:00 AM
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Most events allow light support weapons.
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:28 AM
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to tell the truth, by the time you've paid for all of the externals needed to make an m16 an LMG, it would probably be cheaper just to buy an A&K m249 and put a few upgrades into it. especially considering that a drum mag is like $150 and that comes for free with the A&K from most places
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:52 AM
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It all depends on how well you do it. Some event organizers are very strict on what support weapons are allowed. If a support weapon is a modified AEG, a lot of event organizers will mandate that it be as close to the real deal as possible. Slapping a box mag on a M16 is not going to cut it at a lot of events. For these stricter events, you'd need the correct barrel, correct hand guards, fore grips, and bipod. Even then, some organizers MIGHT not allow it.

I'd second the opinion of just getting a true support weapon. While some AEG (like v3 mechbox equipped ones) are commonly used as the base for support weapons, most mechboxes are not designed to handle the stress of continuous long bursts of fire. I'd suggest getting a true support weapon.

There are some reasonable support weapons out there. The CA M249 are getting relatively low in price and there are other options like the TSD Tactical Gen II AEG Model RPK. I'd just look around before spending the money on modding a M16 to be a LMG and then not being allowed to use it as a support weapon.
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:06 AM
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You should be able to have a M16 as a support weapon. In the book Military small arms of the 20th century they show the Canadian C7 and the Colt M16A2 machine gun. In the pics in the book it doesnt look to hard to make. The book is $25.00 if I had an ify support weapon I would bring the book with me, then most events should allow it. I will try to post the pic of the gun later

http://www.autoweapons.com/photos07/...t1829colt.html

heres the pics.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:03 AM
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Well, I haven't seen hardguards like that avalible for sale in a long time, even for real steel. So, good luck with that one.

Big Boss,
Yes, you could make it, as long as it is a faithful representation of a LSW that was used as such, or built as such. The m16 LSW never really made it into wide scale production as an LSW. Typically, if you cannot find it here: http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg00-e.htm it does not classify as an LSW.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:20 AM
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Thats true, you should make a shrike instead. A V2 or V3 gearbox cant really be a true support weapon because its not made to shoot fast for long periods of time i had a friend who tried to turn his G3 into a support weapon buy putting in the Systema turbo kit and the thing is always down. It could however be a light support weapon.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:10 PM
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I always thought the MG36 would be a cheap alternative to a support weapon, but again, who knows if a V3 can stand up to the challenge.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:22 PM
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V3's can be light support weapons. V2's and V3's can be heavy support weapons but they need to constantly be repaired. Heres an analogy i heard "If you want to buy a racecar be ready to buy new tires often" this saying holds true with V2 and V3 support weapons. My friends G3 has gone threw 2 aluminum pistons and 1 system magnum motor.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:25 PM
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The TSD/SRC RPK is supposed to be an excellent newbie support weapon. On OPSEC, one of the guys bought it just to abuse it. They put 20k through it in a day of open play, and it still was good to go. It also shoots 360 out of box, so its not bad at all.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:55 PM
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The problem i see with it is that every noob out there will start trying to convert their echo 1's to LSW's.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:02 PM
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A version 3 gearbox with the proper work can be a very good supportgun base. Pretty much any gearbox with few exceptions can be made to take the punishment. As I call them "brick" gearboxes like the Ca's just are more effective means for the average person building a support gun. 8mm bearings really do make the difference. The mg36 is a fine base. Phalanx has one and it is a fine example of a support gun with a V3 gearbox.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
The problem i see with it is that every noob out there will start trying to convert their echo 1's to LSW's.
But in a noobs eyes whats it worth buying a high cap that cost as much as there gun, Or spending another 70 dollars to get the forgrip,
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:28 PM
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not to get of topic but i have a tm ak and i have a drum mag for it and a bipod for it and i am getting a rpk conversion kit for my b day (march) and i wanted to use my ak as a heavy support gun in op shadowsword. Will they let me use my ak as a heavy support or will i have to wait untill my b day to use it as a heavy support?
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:17 PM
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What exactly is the point splitting the support into a regular support and a "light" support beside making already complex-to-host-and-govern events even harder to officiate? Its like splitting sniper into semi and non-semi. Or the HK fanboys trying to split the difference with that tarded plastic MG3. "Its real cause Heckler and Koch published pics of it and some guys in Austria shot a pickup truck with one once..."

Heavy support and light support? Sniper and light sniper?

How about gay and metro-sexual?

Just be a man and carry the damn SAW/60/RPK or learn fire control and be an effective rifleman.

Meanwhile here's some cheese:

Folks, the A&Ks are in stock. They're metal. They shoot 390. They don't even weigh as much as the CAs - for you trotters wanting to avoid the load - and they are CHEAP. Stop trying to gerbil the corner.


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Originally Posted by D-Boy View Post
A version 3 gearbox with the proper work can be a very good supportgun base. Pretty much any gearbox with few exceptions can be made to take the punishment. As I call them "brick" gearboxes like the Ca's just are more effective means for the average person building a support gun. 8mm bearings really do make the difference. The mg36 is a fine base. Phalanx has one and it is a fine example of a support gun with a V3 gearbox.
Um yeahhhh.... no. I disagree. The PCG style gearbox is not just a newb friendly formfactor for a support gun. It's laid out that way on purpose. I'll put the PCG layout next to *any* V2 or V3, boutique or factory stock, tape down the triggers, walk away and see which one smokes first. Bet I win. I'm 2-0 currently. MG36s are fine... as long as its short bursts. Big whup. Rifle with a boxmag is all they are. Boxmag and plastic pink slippers.
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Last edited by Hillslam; 11-06-2007 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:36 PM
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Just be a man and carry the damn SAW/60/RPK
Words from one of the best support weapon guys in the game. Support weapons are HEAVY and thats the tradeoff for carrying so much ammo & firepower. Taking the easy/light way out just doesn't seem right in MilSim games.
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Old 11-07-2007, 11:30 PM
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Hillslam you do make a good point, most* PGCs designs are laid out very well. But with any design there are flaws, and with the PGC there are just as many as a v2 or v3. They just come disguised as traits or "habits" of the PGC design. There are plenty to list, but judging by your very stern dislike of anything non PGC there wouldn't be a point in me listing them all here.

As great as the PGCs are over a V2 or even most* v3 in the role of support I have to disagree with you on the topic of the MG36. I realize we don't get to as many events as you guys do, but I would like to see how our MG36 stacks up against any of your LMGs. Ask around from the guys who've attended Red Dragon this year when I was there. It wasn't uncommon to hear my gearbox for minutes at a time
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Old 11-07-2007, 11:58 PM
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Don't forget there are two version of the MG36, the Standard MG36 with the red dot and 3x scope, and the MG36E which is the light version with the 1.5x scope. While it may not be the "best" suitable choice, it is unique and I think worth building, and it costs just as much to upgrade and maintain a M249 as it would to build and maintain a MG36. It is all a matter of an opinion, but it is a fact that the MG36 IS a support weapon. My team owns two M249's and we are building a MG36E.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:39 AM
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Not wanting to be an a$$ but you guys are talking about something we have been arguing about for years. Restrictions on the Support weapons are there for 2 things;

- Making sure we won't have 100 players with drum mags in the field
- Making sure we use them as realistically as possible.

In real life, carrying a saw is physically demanding not only by the gun itself but also by the ammo weight. In airsoft, you now have saw weighing less than 8 lbs...which is ridiculously light for a SAW. The size of the gun is very cumbersome so I guess even if you can't recreate the real weight, you still have a hard time moving it around.

The other thing is in real life, the support weapon usually have reinforced parts to endure the full auto capabilities (i.e. outer barrel). in airsoft, there are no difference between a MP5k barrel and the M2 gun.

I could keep going like this but I think the point is easily made here; Players might be lucky to carry a lighter version of the support weapon but other limitation must compensate for this, otherwise, there are no points to use any support weapons in the field.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:50 AM
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Well we aren't real soldiers nor are we trained like them. SAW gunners train to carry their weapon, airsofters don't, there is a limit, and basing an LMG off wait or physical ability is just damn stupid, what if someone wants a LMG but is not able to carry the weight?
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:56 AM
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In that case, let every MP5K running around with drum mags since not all players can afford a bunch of reg mags or let fake armor stop bbs. We can play this game like a bunch of amateurs or we can try to play it as it should be.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:57 AM
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Well we aren't real soldiers nor are we trained like them. SAW gunners train to carry their weapon, airsofters don't, there is a limit, and basing an LMG off wait or physical ability is just damn stupid, what if someone wants a LMG but is not able to carry the weight?
Then they should decide to use something that meets their comfort level in the weight department, and do away with those silly ideas of being a SAW Gunner.
Also, whose to say that airsofters don't train to use their support weapons? They may not be putting lead down range, but that doesn't mean they aren't working out methods to best employ their heavy, expensive, BB-spewing heart attack machines..
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:46 AM
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Weight of the weapon aside, what else is the problem here? Is it airsofters fault that these companies make cheap plastic replicas? If I was going to buy a SAW it would be a CA or at least full metal. On that same note if you choose to use such a weapon then it is your decision to bare the weight. I agree with not allowing a drum mag on everything, honestly i dont think they should even make drum mags for MP5's, but they should start making more support weapons, currently there are not too many choices, and I think some people want something more than a M249 or a M60. Companies are starting to make Mags more reasonably priced so I do not think that will be a problem anymore.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:24 AM
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If I were you I would go for a MG36, but this comes from a shameless g36 whore. A MG36 is just a G36 with a bipod and c-mag, but the cool thing is that its an actual weapon used - much better than an mp5 with a box mag thrown on it.
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Old 11-08-2007, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by strikers_blade View Post
In that case, let every MP5K running around with drum mags since not all players can afford a bunch of reg mags or let fake armor stop bbs. We can play this game like a bunch of amateurs or we can try to play it as it should be.
Did I ever say that? I was reffering to how the MG36 is to "light" to be realistic
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