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Old 10-06-2011, 12:24 PM
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how much slower are .25 then .20

i was curious cause my friend and i both have the same gun but he shoots .2 and i shoot .25 and mine make a very different sound when hitting the fence and his get there a lot faster, just curious if it makes that much of a difference or if something is wrong with my gun
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:26 PM
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I would list your guns here, and there should be a thread somewhere dedicated to this.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:30 PM
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you lose about 40 fps for every .05 weight you add over .2. so lets say your shooting .2s at 400 fps, then you add .25 to it.. now your shooting at 360 fps. heavier weight bbs are more acurrate, but you lose a bit of distance. its important to choose wisely. its also good to know that at any event, they will chrono you using .2. its a safety thing..
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:34 PM
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You may want to start using the search button a tad bit more.

Now, more on topic. .2s are lighter than .25s which means they are faster. As for the different sounds they make when hitting the fence, its because of the weights and materials in each type of BB that do this. I doubt anything is wrong with your gun. Although most are made of plastic, they do indeed make heavier types of plastic and make BBs out of them.

You may also wish to stop posting so much, you just joined no more than an hour ago and you're on a post-rampage!
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:52 PM
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Honestly depends, but usually around 30-40 FPS is a consistent result.

My old P90 shot 282 with .2s, and the 258 with .25s. My old CA M4 shot around 395, and dropped to 362. My current KWA - 378 to 345. So you can see there may be a discrepancy in results between guns, but it's pretty consistently in that area.

Keep in mind, .25s will travel slower, but will be more accurate.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:57 PM
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alright sweet! thanks
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:02 PM
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3 Posts is not what I would call a rampage, lol.

Your BBs are heavier and given that both guns the same energy wise your BB will travel at a slower speed (E=.5m*v^2).

Also, you BB will be less effected by wind and brush. So while the .2 will get there faster, your .25 will have a better chance at hitting the target at range. People upgrade their guns to DMRs so that they can use heavy BBs (.28gs and up). They then need to increase the FPS to make sure that those BBs get there in a timely manner.

Also, look up "power creep", its a pretty cool effect as it "boosts" power of you gun, just by using heavier BBs. It is explained more in the thread.
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:52 PM
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Lets learn some math so we don't have to guess...yay! Here is the only accurate way other than actually measuring your FPS to calculate velocity differences between BB weights. You must convert to metrics however, and that is the way it should be anyway... Please remember, the energy delivered by a gun shooting different BB weights is always the same. Heavier BB's impact "harder" because they maintain the momentum through air resistance much better then lighter BB's. I can run through those equations, but they require advanced math skills.


As I forgot to mention and Torque pointed out, these are only accurate at the muzzle of the gun (which is where you measure fps regardless.)
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Last edited by Spectre; 10-06-2011 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:55 PM
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FPS pertains to velocity at the point of leaving the muzzle. Once a bb leaves the muzzle, it slows down quickly from air resistance and gravity, correct? So a heavier bb will be able to fight air resistance longer because it has more mass, yes?

EDIT: sniped by Spectre

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Old 10-06-2011, 03:03 PM
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Actually the BB does not slow down due to gravity! Your horizontal component of velocity will remain the same throughout flight in ideal conditions. All loss of horizontal velocity in the real world is due to air resistance. Your vertical component of velocity will actually increase in ideal conditions because there is acceleration due to gravity.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:19 PM
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Ok fine, no grav effects, but what about the rotation of the earth supplying a centrifugal force on the bb and thus increases its inertia which then counteracts the effects of... nah, just messin' with you Spectre, lol.

Very good info for all these new guys to know. Especially about fps, bbs, and such. So many misconceptions out there.

You know airsoft is srsus bizns, right?

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Old 10-06-2011, 03:28 PM
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SInce someone said "Once a bb leaves the muzzle, it slows down quickly from air resistance", I present the following graph. Please note, this is not my data. It is taken from the BioVal BB performance report done by Lavante Labs Sept 2008 in Switzerland. Data shown is for different weights of Tokyo Mauri BB's only.

Note that even a sniper rifle at 550 fps (muzzle velocity) drops under the AO 400 fps limit in less than 30ft.

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Old 10-06-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
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Note that even a sniper rifle at 550 fps (muzzle velocity) drops under the AO 400 fps limit in less than 30ft.
I know, isn't that amazing?
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:18 PM
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we can throw "big math" up here all day long... lots of us do it for a living....

or you can go with something simple like this:

chrono'd my KWA m4 with 20g (kwa perfects) 385-388fps

chrono'd my KWA m4 with 25g (kwa perfects) 362-364fps

so for my gun it was "about" 23fps slower.

now as to all the other stuff about range? nah it didnt drop my range any at all, because they stayed straight until they died instead of taking off when a bird flapped its wings in the distance.

it doesnt have to be complicated. shoot both and see which one works the best in your gun.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
Lets learn some math so we don't have to guess...yay! Here is the only accurate way other than actually measuring your FPS to calculate velocity differences between BB weights. You must convert to metrics however, and that is the way it should be anyway... Please remember, the energy delivered by a gun shooting different BB weights is always the same. Heavier BB's impact "harder" because they maintain the momentum through air resistance much better then lighter BB's. I can run through those equations, but they require advanced math skills.


As I forgot to mention and Torque pointed out, these are only accurate at the muzzle of the gun (which is where you measure fps regardless.)
Physics has been done.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:45 AM
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There's an app for that ...

My iPhone tells me that a 0.25g bb is A LOT slower than a 0.20g bb.

Now, the question becomes what do I mean by A LOT ...

A LOT = 39 Feet Per Second or 27 Miles Per Hour slower.

My app tells me that a 0.25g bb at 328 FPS = a 0.20g bb at 367 FPS.

While this little equation is not nearly as pretty as Hardlock's graph above, it is ez to understand
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:24 PM
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Man, my heads just a spinning here. All this fancy math and stuff isn't for such simple folks as me. I think you all are crazy. I've been sitting here all day watching a .20 bb and a .25 bb. They haven't moved all day so I think they go the same speed. These little critters sure are slow!
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:57 PM
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Here's a couple o' simple equations for y'all n00bs out there

ability to overcome air/wind resistance > muzzle velocity

difference in speed of .25g vs. .20g bb @ 120 ft < time the target can even lift his arm to scratch his nose, much less move out of the way
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Last edited by Torque; 10-11-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:15 PM
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ok all fancy math equations aside those numbers posted up there REALLY are the exact same numbers i posted on the KWA forums when we ran the tests on the BB's and the barrels.

all the math in the world doesnt change actual results.

just remember a Bumble Bee isnt supposed to be able to fly.. but they do. Physics and numbers are not always a true story.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:27 PM
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EDIT: So sdk, which side of the debate are u on? Sorry just curious... I think we're saying the same thing here.

I don't think anyone is disputing a major range difference, just the actual perceived time difference to reach the target.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:37 PM
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If they wouldnt shatter in my gun, maybe...
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holstein View Post
Run Away Its Scarey Math

Nobody here has ever seen Algebra or Calculus or Linnear Algebra or differential equations...

We're just banging rocks together.
You can't always use a mathematical equation if the INDIVIDUAL gun has its own set of varibles that effect the BB's speed (hop-up setting, spring tension, air compression, barrel length and wideth, etc). All of these varibles are different throughout all guns so not everyone will have the same difference in drop between using the two different BBs. Even whoever manufactured the BBs may have a significant effect on the speed (KSC vs. Matrix..).
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:11 PM
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Like SDK said, you really just need to try it and see. Thats the only real way to see, because some people would rather have a faster BB while others want a more steady trajectory.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:45 PM
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Try and see yes. There really are too many variables to include in a basic mathematical equation. Though Spectre did a nice job of starting the math train. And that graph is awesome by the way. Unfortunately, as I already stated, there are too many variables. Things like, not all BBs are the exact same size, or for that matter, the same weight, and so on. The only way to calculate how much velocity you lose when transitioning to .25 or higher, is really just to test it out, and see which one works the best for you and your gun, also as previously stated by others.

I think it pretty much boils down to this:
A .20g BB travelling at say, ~350 FPS, will get to your target faster, but will be less accurate. However, a .25g BB travelling ~320 FPS, will get to your target slower, but will be more accurate because of its weight and trajectory. (this of course is a theoretical evaluation assuming there are no variables other than weight.)

I really want to experiment with this...
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque View Post
EDIT: So sdk, which side of the debate are u on? Sorry just curious... I think we're saying the same thing here.

I don't think anyone is disputing a major range difference, just the actual perceived time difference to reach the target.
Torque<

we all switched to 25's... in rifles, pistols even the slingshot.

it wasnt really about the FPS for Snakey, Demon or me. all of our guns run in the same FPS give or take 8FPS.

it was all about hitting a leaf or a little brush. 25's dont seem to care if a leaf gets in the way. they actually cut thru better.

even in my super low FPS Marui the 25's stay more true to the spot.

nothing else i can add, just rehashing... last post on it for me.
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