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Old 10-11-2006, 11:44 AM
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Judging Interst in Airsoft Practical Pistol Competition

Good Afternoon Ladies and Gents...

A few of you know this, most of you probably don't, but I am REALLY big into Airsoft Practical Pistol Shooting, both as a Skirmish training aid, AND as as a competition. I've been interested in it for several years, and have been hosting Practical Pistol events for a couple of years.

I recently added a section to Airsoftforum.com to try to drum up more interest in the States in this kind of thing. But rather than link you to ASF, I will just transport the big stuff over here:

First off, for those of you who don't know what Practical Pistol Shooting is:

Quote:
originally posted by BattlePriest

You may have seen the Acronyms floating around here and there... IPSC (bbIPSC), IDPA, USPSA, TAPSS, etc... Or perhaps you wonder what a "Race Gun" is?

Well lets start with those Acronyms:

IPSC = International Practical Shooting Confederation (Commonly called "ipsick")
bbIPSC = BB International Practical Shooting Confederation (just an Airsoft version of the other)
IDPA= International Defensive Pistol Association
USPSA= United States Practical Shooting Association
TAPSS= Tactical Airsoft Pistol Speed Shooting

These are all different forms of Practical Pistol Shooting Competition systems. What that means is, Pistol shooting competitions, that are more than just shooting repeatedly at the same target, or shooting a cans. They can involve:

Multiple targets
Special or specific paper targets
Knockdown targets (fancy cans)
Silouhette rail targets
Multiple shooting stances
Multiple shooting positions
Required mag changes
Different targets
Different degrees of difficulty
Different lighting
Etc...

Many times with all of the above in one shooting course. Many such competitions score you on a time VS target score system, rather than just a target score system. IE, the faster you shoot the course, the better your score... but only if you shoot well. If you go so fast you don't score well on targets, you score badly OR if you shoot VERY well, but are too slow, you score badly. Some forms simply score on time, you must knock over all targets to complete the course. This is where the term "Race Gun" comes into play. Because in essence, Practical Pistol events are Races... with Guns.

bbIPSC (An Airsoft version of the original real steel IPSC) is a well established thing in Japan and Hong Kong, it got some exposure in Europe but not to a great degree. In the US there are only bits and pieces of it, and usually not very organized (or that even follow the very strict IPSC rules base) A few members of ASF are VERY into bbIPSC, and I am sure they will chime in soon.

My own Practical Pistol Competition system called TAPSS, is detailed in the article linked in my signature, so I do not have to go into much detail on it. Basically, its a simpler system than bbIPSC, designed primarily as an AIRSOFT pistol combat training system, as well as a competition system.

(Since its not in my sig here at AO, here is the link to TAPSS)
http://airsoftspecialists.com/articles/TAPSS/tapss.htm

IDPA and USPSA don't currently have specific Airsoft versions of themselves.

WHY Practical Pistol you ask? Several reasons:

Fun
Improve your pistol skills ten fold
Fun
Improve your speed
Fun
Improve your accuracy

And for most... the chance to TRULY compete in an Airsoft setting. You see... as I have stated MANY times before, in Airsoft Skirmishing, you CANNOT give prizes for winning. Airsoft Skirmishing is not a TRUE competition in which one team or person can be called the winner. No hard set system for determining who ACTUALLY got hit has yet to be devised, and thus... you can't PROVE without a doubt who WON.

With Airsoft Practical Pistol Competitions... it is VERY HARD to cheat. When an event is organized and run well, only the participants who are truly good at it, can end up in the winners bracket. You can't cheat the timer or the target. And thus... its TRUE competition, which means... you CAN give prizes or awards to the deserving winners, meaning the next time around, there will be even MORE competition to be had.

Anyone else here who has experience with Practical Pistol Shooting, please reply and elaborate as much as you want on what I have given here... Correct me as well if need be.
And to give you the visual... here are some videos.. these first 3 are from my own hosted TAPSS events:

TAPSS Demo, May 2006 11 meg, Quicktime Format (Please use: right click, Save Target As for all my videos)

First Person Video of TAPSS Feb 2006 8 meg, Quicktime Format.

TAPSS Final Rounds, Feb 2006 11 Meg, Quicktime Format

TAPSS Technique Comparisons, Feb 2006 17 meg, Quicktime Format

And now these next one's are from Hong Kong, Japan and Germany:

Quote:
originally posted by primussucks

Heres some here with no sound.
http://www.airsoftipsc.org/movie.htm

with sound in german or something
http://www.airsoft-ipsc.de/Videos.htm

and more stuff here in japenglish, the links page here has more stuff as well.
http://www.hksdu.com/
So what I want to know is... how many of you Ohio types are interested in such a thing. I REALLY want to start hosting TAPSS, or even true bbIPSC here in Cincinnati or the surrounding area... All I need is interest, and a Venue. And if we have enough interest, I MAY even be able to drum up some prizes from a Sponsor or two.

Let me know if your interested. And/OR if you have a place I could use as a venue... Indoor is best, especially with Winter at the brink. As you can see from my videos, we don't need all that much space for a TAPSS course. Large garages (if heated), small warehouses, large basements....are perfect.

Take it easy.

BP

Last edited by BattlePriest; 10-11-2006 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:15 PM
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Just checking something, when I posted this thread, it didn't reset the last post listing in the main forums list... seeing if this fixes that problem.

EDIT... yeah that fixed it, must just have been a forum glitch. Mods can deleted this post now if they want.

Last edited by BattlePriest; 10-11-2006 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:33 PM
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I am very interested in something like that. Keep us updated if you get something planed. Or if you need help planing something.

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Old 10-11-2006, 01:42 PM
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I am most definitely interested, to the point that I would volunteer to help setup and run an event. However, distance will be a factor. Would I travel to Cincinnatti (2+ hours) to do it? Probably not. I admit I'm biased because I live in Columbus, but I really do believe that the more central the event is, the more Ohioans will participate. At the same time, however, I don't expect you, the organizer, to have to drive two hours to host your own event.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:47 PM
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I think we should establish the Society of Hicappa Urban Target-shooting Users' Program or SHUTUP. This would allow any user who uses a Hicapacity/2011 clone to actively participate in shooting events while shunning all those who do not. SHUTUP could be a domimant factor in airsoft.

Besides, it gives me another reason to brag about how cool my Marui Hicapa is -- its really cool.
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:02 PM
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color me interested

It would give me a good reason to build a nice 1911 single stacker or get another svi
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Texx
I think we should establish the Society of Hicappa Urban Target-shooting Users' Program or SHUTUP. This would allow any user who uses a Hicapacity/2011 clone to actively participate in shooting events while shunning all those who do not. SHUTUP could be a domimant factor in airsoft.

Besides, it gives me another reason to brag about how cool my Marui Hicapa is -- its really cool.
Texx... dont make me get the whip.....

lol Classic


I would not be opposed to a central location. I just need a location.

And as for single stackers.... It would be best to build a nice hi capacity pistol FIRST... then go for a single stacker, because most people have at least 20 rounds, and thus, most courses would be designed for 20+ round capacities. Actually my standard TAPSS courses are usually designed for pistols that have at LEAST 15 rounds. This means most of your WA 14+1s will work ok, you will just have to hit slide release before you holster your pistol.

Or I could always design more courses that require mag changes.

Now if we go the way of bbIPSC once in a while, mag capacity isnt as critical to the course design.
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:38 PM
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Nah i did the double stacker thing. I had two WA SVIs those thinges were beasts but the grip was a bit large for my liking.

I will stick with the the Single stackers I will just have to be faster on the reloads.
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Old 10-11-2006, 03:15 PM
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My Hicapa 5.1 with the 4.3 mags holds 26+, and I can shoot it ambidexterously. The flavor of pistol is really up to the shooter, but keeping with a 1911 design requirement would prolly do well.

You want to see something beautiful, try two-gunning with matched Hicapas..
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Old 10-11-2006, 03:38 PM
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I would love to participate in or help organize an event.

As for venues, there is the shoot house in kettering. It's not free, but it's definitely big enough and is all indoors. Plus you could do some CQB at the event as well. Maybe help keep the downtime to a minimum.
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inferno
I would love to participate in or help organize an event.

As for venues, there is the shoot house in kettering. It's not free, but it's definitely big enough and is all indoors. Plus you could do some CQB at the event as well. Maybe help keep the downtime to a minimum.
Do you have links? I have never heard of this shoothouse.

As for doing CQB during downtimes... you might think there would be downtown when your not shooting the course.. but trust me... everyone NOT shooting the course, is busy looking at prelim scores... trying to figure out what they have to do to beat them, tuning thier pistols, checking and double checking their pistol action, talking with other shooters in the que, obsessing about tecnique, etc etc....

If you have a pistol malfunction during your run... its DNF... no second chances. So, you gotta be on your toes.

Oh and for the record... no person who has ever used a WE hi Cappa of any type in my events, has ever finished a round. (been able to fire all 15 shots before a problem occured) I am telling you all this now, to prevent anyone from wasting thier money on the "pretty" WE hi cappas for use in practical shooting.

However, TM hi Cappas have worked flawlessly in my events.
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:11 AM
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I can't find a link to the shoothouse website. I'm not even sure if there is one.

Go here for some pics of the place. You can ignore most of the info on that page. I'm pretty sure its for a past training event. However, it does have the address and a way to get ahold of Jeff Pedro, the guy who runs the place.

If you need more help getting info on the place, talk to almega or anyone from the 86th. I know they held a CQB event there a year or so ago, so they should be able to point you in the right direction.
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Old 10-13-2006, 11:43 AM
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I'd be interested if you ran a carbine course parallel to the pistol course.
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:48 PM
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OK... you can delete this post... AO is really giving me a hard time today.

Last edited by BattlePriest; 10-13-2006 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 10-13-2006, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loki
I'd be interested if you ran a carbine course parallel to the pistol course.

Well my interest is specifically in pistols, and my rules system is keyed towards that. However, you could run a pistol course for TAPSS using an AEG, only if its in semi auto. You could not score TAPSS with full auto.

Alternatively, a bbIPSC style course with knock downs, poppers and plates, could easily be used by both Pistol uers and Full Auto AEG users, making the course scored by time only. All you need to do is knock down all the targets however you are capable. To make it interesting enough for AEG users though, you would want a LOT more targets, plate racks most likely, to be knocked down.

If any of you have access to alumiminum sheeting, knock downs can be made by just taking say a 2 inch by12 or 15 inch plate with like a 2-3 inch section bent in an L shape.

Airsoft Plate racks look like this:

Edit.. damn.. all the links I gave dissapeared.. am I the only one who has problems posting on AO? Half the time I get a 404 after hitting submit. Then is still posts, but only part of the post.

Here they are again:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...e=post&id=4472

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...e=post&id=4474

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...e=post&id=4475

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...e=post&id=4477

I suspect that bbIPSC would be a BIG hit, if some company.. ehem.. cough cough... would host courses once a month.. ESPECIALLY in the winter months with a heated space. IPSC courses require very little space, big ones are better, but they really dont need a lot of space.. and with resettable plate racks and such... the investment in making targets could be paid back in no time. Some moveable second hand cubicle deviders to make approach halls and corners and your set. My own TAPSS... all you need is 5 of my own design bb traps, which cost about 25 bucks or less to make (all 5 of them) and then target papers, which you can charge for in the entrance fees. (what I did when I hosted them at Aggressive Sports)

Anywhoo...

To answer your question Loki.. yes... Carbine courses are doable. Though not nearly as satisfying for me.

Last edited by BattlePriest; 10-13-2006 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:08 PM
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I would enjoy a rifle course as much as a pistol course.
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