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Old 09-17-2015, 09:28 AM
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What makes a game worth it to you?

I know this is an old topic of discussion but I thought it would be good to bring it back up.

Every year events come and go and I am curious from the players perspective what draws you to events as well as throws some barriers to players. Would you pay 50 dollars for an 8 hour event that you got an embroidered event patch with high production value such as pyro and effects, dedicated quality role-players etc or would the price turn you off. Would you pay 80 dollars or a 2 day event with similarly increased production value.

What is the draw? Simply numbers? Story line? Immersion?

Discuss airsofters discuss.
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Old 09-17-2015, 09:41 AM
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I love the immersion and the challenges/restrictions. Anything to shake up the basic rule sets of open plays that draw you a couple steps deeper and make you really have to consider your actions.

Frankly, just keep producing what you're doing. I think its a perfect formula and the MilSim Open will be a great success as it gets everyone to that MilSim style of play.

If someone was to do it, I'd pay 80 for a 1 day event if they made it that kickass but I do enjoy RP role as well. I guess I don't really help because I just love all airsoft in general... :/
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:41 PM
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I'm with Glitch on this one, I love the events that shake up the rule set a little more than usual! I like feeling the pressure of being in the field for long hours. I like role playing and I like the role players that don't give in after a few minutes of talking. Personally I know one of my favorite events was a short milsim out at DP where there was a downed pilot mission, this mission involved finding the pilot via grid map, using a 9-line call on the pilot(actual role player), Treating injuries(fake ones), Then moving the pilot who couldn't walk. Now part of the reason I like this, is because I felt like it brought a sense of realism to the game for me as a medic that I had not seen before. Then again I love this sport and I will continue to play through thick and thin because of that but thats me.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:59 PM
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If I know the event will be good, I'll pay for it. "Good" to me entails a good attendance (50 vs 50 beats 25 vs 25), good structure, a storyline that I feel immersed into, and some special flair for the extra dollars. To be honest, I'm beat to death with the whole "US vs. Russia" or "US vs Crapstakistan" stories. There are other conflicts in the world and we have the capability to emulate them in airsoft. At the same time, storyline immersion is the responsibility of each player as much as it is the event host. You could be the Medellin Cartel vs. CIA, complete with fake (hopefully) bags of coke and dudes in suits and ties but if players only refer to the cartel as "the guys in woodland" then what good does that do? As far as flair, pyrotechnics works, as well as some cool props. It doesn't matter if the pipe bomb is made of PVC you jacked from your dad's shed, the fact that it exists makes the game that much better. No one likes fighting for the invisible, imaginary bomb. Past that, you could also implement things like flags, promotional videos/photos, special staff role players meant to enhance gameplay and keep things in line, etc. You get the idea.

Consequences for failure are necessary. Why do people always shoot the civilians? Because the civilians respawn and the worst they get is "Hey don't shoot the civilians!!" Maybe, now that the citizens of this foreign country are pissed off because you killed more than 10 of their people, your C130 full of supplies has been denied access to the country's airstrip and you don't receive resources. You now must wait 1 hour into the next scenario to load your magazines. Stuff like that will make the game more sophisticated and changes the dynamic from "shoot peoples" to "Identify targets, only shoot when shot at, don't shoot civilians." Event attendance is out of your hands, but I think that all the things I listed rely on each other. As an event organizer, Jonah, I think you do a great job of incorporating what I listed into the events.

Commemorative patches and dog tags are cool, but what are they worth if the event they commemorate isn't worth commemorating? I think the patches are a really cool idea and a nice way of remembering an event, but only if the event was truly that memorable. I personally love my Crucible dogtags because I endured hell on the hill (err, f**k mountain) and the dogtags remind me of that. And with that, I drop the mic.
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Old 09-19-2015, 06:54 PM
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So are you suggesting dogtags and event patch should be made AFTER the event ??
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Old 09-20-2015, 01:28 AM
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So are you suggesting dogtags and event patch should be made AFTER the event ??
That's an option, but I do like knowing I'll be receiving a patch or dog tags so I dunno. It's a case of having my cake and eating it too. I can say that before anything else, the interest in MilSim needs to go up. I've played enough open plays to know that there's people who will go to MilSims if they were made more accessible to the general population. My first "MilSim" was a Operation 222 at Springfield. Nothing crazy, but there was structure, tighter regulations, and a decent storyline.

What I want to see at an airsoft event is chain of command. I haven't gone to an airsoft event in a while that really nailed the whole chain of command. Part of this is that players need to be actively involved. The mission should be passed down the chain rather than everyone receiving one big brief as a team and hoping they listen to what other people are doing. The CO should be giving his commander's intent and plotting a course of action for the operation. The XO should pass the information that the CO gave down to squad leaders, explaining each of their assignments and doing necessary movements for when the game goes live. The squad leaders should pass their objective down to squad members. Again, this is reliant on the player base, but the staff saying that this is what you should do would go a long way.

I would like to see day ops without lunch breaks. I think that would go a long way towards immersion and bridge the gap between your standard MilSim and events like Crucible. Going 7-8 hours without stopping is a nice midway between going 3 hours without stopping and going 24 hours without stopping. You would see players needing to pack an assault pack and bringing what food, water, and supplies they'll need for an operation like that. Obviously, no sleeping bags are necessary, but maybe an MRE, spare ammo, water, spare clothing in case of weather changes, etc. would be things to pack in a MAP or equivalent small third line.

I dunno, it's 2:21 AM and I'm spitballing ideas.
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Have you ever noticed in commercials how there's like a white guy and his Asian friend and the black guy so it's not racist? That's pandas job
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Old 09-21-2015, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonahm740 View Post
Every year events come and go and I am curious from the players perspective what draws you to events as well as throws some barriers to players. Would you pay 50 dollars for an 8 hour event that you got an embroidered event patch with high production value such as pyro and effects, dedicated quality role-players etc or would the price turn you off. Would you pay 80 dollars or a 2 day event with similarly increased production value.
I think that games full of restrictions, role players, unique medic rules, etc are great! They add color to the sport and give people a chance to really interact with the game on a whole new level.
With that in mind, here are my thoughts:

I think that while these games are a real thing of beauty, we cannot use them to replace the traditional green vs. tan games 100%.....and before you disagree, hear me out.

While the more complex style of airsoft has brought about a more holistic approach to milsim, it has broadened the gap between the experienced player and a newer player trying to break into the milsim world.
I am really happy with the new OOBI Milsim Open series because I believe it is filling a need that this sport is starving for.

So often Green vs Tan events have been limited to open plays or OFTEN inexperienced event hosts(I know that there are still quality hosts who still host this style of game). There definitely has been a shift away from the traditional to the more complex and the community seems to enjoy it for sure...but I feel as though there needs to be a balance.

What does that look like for sure? I don't have the answers. But I think there needs to be as many force on force games as there are complex faction-based games.

Again, I'm just processing this a little. Maybe I'm way off the mark.
Thoughts?
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Old 09-21-2015, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rellim View Post
So often Green vs Tan events have been limited to open plays or OFTEN inexperienced event hosts
(I added the bold and Italics to emphasize) There is only one way to become and experienced host, and that is to first start with inexperience. I, myself, have hosted. I did opens and the first Op at FW the first year they opened. I learned a lot, but even the most experienced host does not guarantee a smooth or even fun game. THAT responsibility relies on the players. So many times I have seen games with new rules, restrictions, medic processes, etc. and it sounds GREAT, but.....when you have a bunch of new stuff or different stuff in a game all at once, the player tends to get a little overwhelmed. even the veteran players. What happens next is you see them reverting to what they are used to or what they think it is. Or, in some cases, when those new rules may prevent them from *winning* in a tough situation, they tend to ignore them temporarily in order to get the upper hand on the opposition and secure their *win*.

I am not trying to derail the topic to a host vs. player argument, but in my long winded style address the inexperienced host. (which I still am, and will be again this spring. <-- shameless foreshadowing)

I understand a little better than the average player some of the costs in hosting and running a game. With the rising costs of things these days, you will see a rise in game fees for any of the games, from opens to larger OPs. And with players wanting more and more, props, pyro, patches, swag....the rise in price should be obvious. I have no problem justifying the bigger price tag for a bigger op when it comes from a host who has established a reputation for running a quality game. But, that is what brings me to a game...Not the pryo, swag, and material things. I want a solid story line. I want crafty and sneaky twists to the plot, and to know that what we do on the field is for certain going to affect the outcome of the game. I want difficult missions and players who have good sportsmanship. I want them to be able to smile and congratulate the enemy for giving us a butt-whuppin when we screw up a mission instead of blame and rage at them because we forgot to check our flank before we rushed in. that sort of thing.

Good people, good host and great story set up with some challenges makes it worth it to me.

good gravy, I just re-read my post, and I think I'm in need of some medication. *sigh* I hope you can see what my intent to voice was instead of that rambling chain of loose thoughts. LOL
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Old 09-21-2015, 03:13 PM
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I agree with Panda on the whole chain of command thing. When you just tell people to go retrieve something, you end up with a bunch of fragmented squads running around the field shooting at everything, including each other. I think as long as the CO and XO, were competent, and companies/squads were established before the game started, it would be a much better experience.
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Old 09-21-2015, 03:52 PM
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To play devil advocate here, how do you guys know who is a good CO and if the squads are established properly?
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Old 09-21-2015, 04:10 PM
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I agree with chain of command would be a little bonus, but playing without lunch would be a good twist for me. Yet during the warmer season, you see heat exhaustion, tempers flare, and other minusha issues. If your squad needs a rest, go post up at base, eat something, drink water, then get back out there (or set up a OP in the field). The break in the action can be nice, but I agree that there are other ways to get rest but keep the guys going and take away the lag that occurs after lunch break.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:00 AM
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To play devil advocate here, how do you guys know who is a good CO and if the squads are established properly?
That's an issue both players and hosts could work together to solve. It's not on the completely on the host if the CO isn't effective. However, as host, you probably can tell an effective commander from a crowd. Normally, these are the active members who may or may not lead a team themselves and can organize and mobilize forces in an effective manner. That is a large amount to more or less eyeball a player for, but there was a time when COs volunteered rather than were "voluntold" or stepped up out of necessity. As for squad leaders, you would again look for similar qualities in them as you would for the CO, but in more immediate and task-oriented ways. While the CO is responsible with understanding the large-scale objective of the mission, he must divide this into small-scale objectives for the squad leaders to be responsible for, and it is these small-scale objectives that will make the game what it is.

Leaders should identify themselves before the event and volunteer to take on the positions. For those who wish to see the event run well, it would be in their best interests to take on leadership positions. This is a rather altruistic approach, but one that everyone could benefit from. You simply aren't gonna get the same quality of play by simply relying on the faultiness of airsofters.
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Old 09-24-2015, 10:01 AM
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Recently what keeps me coming back has been friends, shooting, and gear. Friends is an obvious explanation as well as shooting the child'in, however I have found gear to be one of my newer sub-hobby of airsoft.

I find it fun to research and ask questions about other nation's military gear, techniques, and overall customs. This pushed me to start making an Aussie kit, German KSK kit, Marsoc kit, Russian FSB, mvd, and Ukrainian Alpha kit. What I like about making these kits (other than the obvious retail therapy) is that it's a part of airsoft I can do 24/7. I can only do so much shooting, so many mods to guns, so many upgrades, etc... But learning, I can do that for forever! There is a plethora of information out there that I could only hope to learn all of. So during the weeks I can text my buddies like Linderman or Peyton and ask them for information surrounding a certain kit I might be doing, a shooting technique, etc...

What I love about doing this research and kit building is then bringing it out on to the airsoft field. Even if I am not playing, just reffing, players will still come up and ask questions about my BDU's, eye pro, or something! That's where I feel airsoft is, it's in the shooting and fun, but it's also in the conversation and community of players. I have made some friends in the Michigan area as well just because we start conversing about gear or guns. For me, it's a new gate way to meet new people and spread the horizon of airsoft.

Also the immersion that this achieves... hhhnnnnggggg. I remember when I first saw Linderman and his squad of 7 German's with full matching kit, guns, etc... It made the event THAT much more immersive. I hope to play under that style here soon. Which I know Jonah is putting into every game!

Also... I look like the bee's knees
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