Airsoft Ohio Forums  
  #26  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:42 AM
gertrude's Avatar
gertrude gertrude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 267
Blog Entries: 17
gertrude is a Private
Send a message via AIM to gertrude Send a message via Yahoo to gertrude Send a message via Skype™ to gertrude
iTrader: (0)
I kindly ask that anyone using those four magic letters that start with F please * out the last three letters. We all know what you're talking about, and even in a link, if we can't figure it out, we don't deserve to follow the link. :P


I believe the middle-finger thing comes from Britain's longbowman. Because the English (after Henry IV, V?) either a) chopped off their fingers so they didn't have to serve, or b) had their middle fingers chopped off by the French because they did serve, they would show off their middle finger (either whole or with the third phalange missing) as a signal of their dislike of the other person. In other words, "Look what I've done, look how cool and whole I am/look what the lousy French have done to me!" One of those kinds of deals. Note: one cannot draw the string of a bow missing the third section of one's middle finger.

Just a note on the word "taboo":
Taboo actually comes from the word "tapu," a system of appeasing the spirits and life force driving the universe in Maori culture. Western culture has sort of taken the term and made it apply to things like naughty language and all sorts of things (ie, baseball magic and taboos).

Personally, I use profanity on a daily basis. I've caught myself at airsoft games cursing in front of children, and have been very ashamed of myself for doing so. Of course I didn't do it on purpose, but really, sometimes I swear like a sailor. However, I'm better than I used to be (two-three years ago I was *terrible*).

I think for some cultures it's normal to use such words, and for other people, the idea that the word is forbidden/profane somehow speaks to the society's level of perceptual sacredness. For instance, saying something naughty in church is much more unnacceptable than saying it in a women's lengerie store, but even that is worse than saying it in a bowling alley. For me, it has to do with the sacred/profane dichotomy (dichotomy=duality=two opposing forces) and the gradients between these two extremes, as if it were a continuum. The more sacred a place, the less profanity is expected/tolerated.
__________________
-gerty
Posting and YOU.
  #27  
Old 04-04-2006, 12:37 PM
BlackHawk97's Avatar
BlackHawk97 BlackHawk97 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sidney
Posts: 421
BlackHawk97 is a Private
iTrader: (1)
To wvkilroy, that is what I am saying, you are correct in saying that the meaning behind the word is what is bad, however do you ever say things such as poo, crap, dang, darn, etc.? If so, then what is the difference behind saying those things and saying the so called bad words, they all have the same definition, so why is it that the forms listed above are accepted and the curse words are not?

You stated that you say holy crap while playing airsoft, which is fine, I am not saying that it is not, however, what is the differance between saying holy crap and holy ****? Both crap and **** have the SAME EXACT definition, that being both mean fecal matter. So, I guess what I am saying is, you stated you go by difinition, however don't use prophanity, why? Please give me an honest answer, this is what I would like to get to the bottom of right now, we have cleared up some things, and I believe the one thing remaining is why people will say one word, and yet completely condem another with the same difinition, and not take another look back at what they just did. They made a hypocritycle statemant.

Also, Gertrude...wow, there where so many big words used in that last post, I had to honestly get a dictionary out. Wow, talk like a sailor, and can also talk like collage professor. Just wow, thank you for the amount of vast knowledge and thank you gertrude and vbtb110 for the background on the middle finger.

Gertrude one more thing, I to use prophanity quite a bit, ask the rest of the 97th, I think I use it just about the most on the team, however do try to watch it around younger children and certain company for the reasons that steamer and myself clerified. As of now the words are becoming more and more accepted, however it must make a graduale acceptance, you can't just throw them in the mix. So for now it seems like the words known as curse words/bad words in general are a way of expressing an extreme emotion, however I do believe with the words being more and more accepted people will start using them like us .
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched, every rocket that is fired, signifies, in the final sense A THEFT from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

-Dwight D. Eisenhower-

Last edited by BlackHawk97; 04-04-2006 at 12:57 PM.
  #28  
Old 04-04-2006, 12:50 PM
Locutus's Avatar
Locutus Locutus is offline
Airsoft Ohio Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Williamsburg, OH
Posts: 4,091
Blog Entries: 1
Locutus is a SpecialistLocutus is a SpecialistLocutus is a Specialist
Send a message via AIM to Locutus
iTrader: (1)
I believe this is the most useless thread ever in existance of Airsoft Ohio....

Society determines in general what is "profane" based on the assumed intent of the word, beyond that, the context plays a large part in determining if a word is profane or not. I believe there is a town in Australia called F***. However I don't think any reasonable person is going to be offended if you say "I went to F*** Australia for vacation" (it might get a few chuckles though).... but if you were to say "F*** that town F*** Australia, that place sucks!", then that is a different story. You have used the same word twice in one sentance, but both have obviously different meanings...

So the difference between sh** and poo is obvious (and most all other synomyms of profane words), one is intended to be profane, to provoke a response or convey that your intentions are vulgar. The other is just a nicer way to refer to something not so pleasant.
__________________



  #29  
Old 04-04-2006, 01:11 PM
BlackHawk97's Avatar
BlackHawk97 BlackHawk97 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sidney
Posts: 421
BlackHawk97 is a Private
iTrader: (1)
Yes, however both **** and poo can be used in many ways. You can say, ahh poo if upset with something, however it doesn't seem like you are to upset, however if you say aww ****, it seems like you may be a little more distressed. So yes **** can be used in different ways than words such as poo, however poo can also be used in those ways. So either way you say it, ahh **** or ahh poo, you are showing distress, anger, sadness. However I can almost guarantee you that if you went to the local mall and asked random people if they where offended by either statement, almost 75% or more would say that the statement ahh **** offended them, however ahh poo is completely acceptable, even though they where used in the same context. This is where I am asking why.

And I am sorry that this is deemed as extreamly useless, I stated way above after Darkstar posted, that if you deemed it necessary to please close this. I didn't want to step on anyones toes or offend anyone. The thread was never closed, so I figured it was ok. If you really deem it as being that useless than please close it, however everything has stayed civil in this discussion and we are having a serious conversation. We are not bashing on anyone or anything like that, just a small group of people who have found this topic interesting have been discussing their points, and those who have so far thought this thread as useless have not shared in the discussion and let us be to discuss it among ourselves. Although, as an administrator, if you feel it is really just making people stupid rather than discussing a serious topic, please close the thread.

I had expected someone to get on here and bash me for something, however did not expect it to be an administrator. If you really feel that this is the most useless thread on AO, than you didn't need to get on here and post that and bash me publicly for posting it. If you had simply PM'd me and said, hey Blackhawk your thread is kind of useless and is taking up bandwidth that is needed or soemthing, I would have asked gertrude to take it down, however, I did PM her before this was posted and asked her if it was ok to post. She said yes, so I did, I also requested in the PM that I returned to her that at the first sign of a spark, not to let it flame up, and to close and trash the thread. I also said that if I saw something that may start a fire on here, that I would PM her about it and ask her to remove this.

So, I guess what I want to know is, do you want this thread removed? If so, than gertrude please do so, if not, than please let us be to discuss our topic.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched, every rocket that is fired, signifies, in the final sense A THEFT from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

-Dwight D. Eisenhower-

Last edited by BlackHawk97; 04-04-2006 at 01:41 PM.
  #30  
Old 04-04-2006, 01:41 PM
Locutus's Avatar
Locutus Locutus is offline
Airsoft Ohio Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Williamsburg, OH
Posts: 4,091
Blog Entries: 1
Locutus is a SpecialistLocutus is a SpecialistLocutus is a Specialist
Send a message via AIM to Locutus
iTrader: (1)
I find this thread pointless because it's like asking why the sky is blue. To some people I guess it might be some great wonder, but it's not really rocket science.

I already explained why "oh poo!" is not offensive and "oh s***!" is. It's the users assumed intent (as judged by society). When you say "s***", you are using that word with intent of being rude and crass or obscene, and when you say "poo" you are not.

Furthermore, "poo" and "s***" do not have the same meaning, the latter is defined as the "obscene" term for feces.

Why is one obscene and the other is not? Why is it rude to put your elbows on the table while eating? Because someone at somepoint determined it was, and the rest of society agreed.
__________________



  #31  
Old 04-04-2006, 02:10 PM
BlackHawk97's Avatar
BlackHawk97 BlackHawk97 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sidney
Posts: 421
BlackHawk97 is a Private
iTrader: (1)
This is why the sky is blue. However unlike that question which has a factual answer, my question is simply trying to get at what is it about bad words that offends people. Like I said it can't be the definition because if so than just about every topic on this site would offend them. So if it is not the meaning that offends them, what is? What is it about these words that make them so offensive.

Yes I see what you are saying about the elbows on the table thing, however that is yet another thing that in current times is no longer greatly seen as rude. I have never been told that it was, and all of my friends, family, just about everyone I have ever met has put their elbows on the table. However the fact that certain words are still considered vulgar when a similar word with a similar or exactly identical definition is not is what baffles me. I was just trying to get to what it is about the word that causes offense, and I figured that people on here who may be offended by the words may chime in and tell me what it is about them that truly offends them personally.

This way, I understand why they are so offended by them, and will possably help those of us who don't watch our language around others and show us why what we say offends them and may change our views.

However like I said though, if you view this as truely pointless, please have it deleted or gertrude could you delete it. It's not going to hurt me one bit if it is, I would rather it be deleted than be bashed on for having it up.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched, every rocket that is fired, signifies, in the final sense A THEFT from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

-Dwight D. Eisenhower-

Last edited by BlackHawk97; 04-04-2006 at 02:21 PM.
  #32  
Old 04-04-2006, 02:25 PM
The CGS The CGS is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 12
The CGS is a Private
iTrader: (0)
Thanks, gertrude, and also....
The French were so terrified of the longbow, when they captured British soldiers, they cut off their middle fingers(Called the PLUCKING finger, may have gotten mixed with F****** finger), so when the French and British fought, the British would "Pluck" them off, and give the bird. I just found this out today in school...wierd!
__________________
  #33  
Old 04-04-2006, 02:29 PM
Locutus's Avatar
Locutus Locutus is offline
Airsoft Ohio Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Williamsburg, OH
Posts: 4,091
Blog Entries: 1
Locutus is a SpecialistLocutus is a SpecialistLocutus is a Specialist
Send a message via AIM to Locutus
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Yes I see what you are saying about the elbows on the table thing, however that is yet another thing that in current times is no longer greatly seen as rude.
Exactly. Just as the words "season", "loom" and "verge" used to be obscene at one time.

They are obscene because society says they are. Since you know this, if you chose to use these words anyway, then you are communicating that you are trying to be obscene. If you chose to use these words and this is not your intention, then you simple are not using the language properly.

Then you may ask, "Why does society determine that these words are obscene"? So that one can communicate their intent to be obscene. They are just part of our ever evolving english language that allows us to communicate with intention and emotion.
__________________



  #34  
Old 04-04-2006, 02:56 PM
BlackHawk97's Avatar
BlackHawk97 BlackHawk97 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sidney
Posts: 421
BlackHawk97 is a Private
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Posted by myself

Ohhhhhh, we may have an answer to my question . These words are kept taboo, and tryed to keep out of everyday speech due to the fact that they are the last words we have that will express an extreme of a certain feeling. If these words are to become common like dang, darn, poo, etc., then we will have to invent new words. The reasons the current words are called bad is just people over reacting to a word that they are not used to hearing. Possible answer anyone?
Not word for word what you said but similar, I am trying to say in this explanation that these words are kept out of common language so they can keep their meaning, my feeling in the above is if you choose to express an extreme emotion, or as you stated if you choose to be vulger you have the words to do so. This was stated quite a few posts ago. It may have been a little more helpful if you had simply gave me this answer from the beginning rather than bash me and tell me that my thread is extremely useless, I don't feel it is so, and I have never even looked at it in this sense, until now.

I am sorry that you feel it was pointless, and I apologize if I have wasted your time, however I do feel this is an acceptable answer. Words are vulgur for that fact that if you need to seem so, you have the words to use to seem vulgur. It is a simple answer, that was overlooked, I obviously wasn't the only one who has done so seeing as how others have responded to my post with other possibilities.

Thank you for answering my question.
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship that is launched, every rocket that is fired, signifies, in the final sense A THEFT from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

-Dwight D. Eisenhower-
  #35  
Old 04-04-2006, 03:43 PM
Locutus's Avatar
Locutus Locutus is offline
Airsoft Ohio Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Williamsburg, OH
Posts: 4,091
Blog Entries: 1
Locutus is a SpecialistLocutus is a SpecialistLocutus is a Specialist
Send a message via AIM to Locutus
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
It may have been a little more helpful if you had simply gave me this answer from the beginning rather than bash me and tell me that my thread is extremely useless
I'm sorry if you feel like I bashed you... I reread my posts and I am not sure where you are getting that from. I always try and be straightforward and to the point, sometimes people take that the wrong way. I thought the thread was pointless because I thought the answer was obvious.

I thought I was giving you that answer in my first post when I said "So the difference between sh** and poo is obvious (and most all other synomyms of profane words), one is intended to be profane, to provoke a response or convey that your intentions are vulgar. The other is just a nicer way to refer to something not so pleasant."

Sorry I wasn't more clear.
__________________



  #36  
Old 04-04-2006, 04:09 PM
gertrude's Avatar
gertrude gertrude is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 267
Blog Entries: 17
gertrude is a Private
Send a message via AIM to gertrude Send a message via Yahoo to gertrude Send a message via Skype™ to gertrude
iTrader: (0)
BlackHawk, I think Locutus simply doesn't understand why this thread is here instead of you reading an overly-complicated text like some of those I'm about to link to below.

I think there's been enough raising of hackles over this debate, and unless someone has been so inspired by it that they ask me to put it up again (or create another thread dedicated to it) I think I'm going to lock it. If there's been this much debate about whether it should even be here, then I'm more inclined that it not be.

Here are some resources, however:

From The Anatomy of Swearing:
"SWEARING constitutes a species of human behavior so little understood, even by its most devoted practitioners, that an examination of its meaning and significance is now long overdue." Or for free at the OSU main library at call number GT3080 .M6.


Bad Language: are some words better than others? Or for free at the OSU library call number P409 .B38 2005.

For other sociolinguistical inquiries, I would try the OSU library system. It's wonderful. (This was my minor in school, anthropology was my major. If you need help looking up resources, let me know. Those two books seemed to be pretty good.)
__________________
-gerty
Posting and YOU.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 AM.


Airsoft Guns, Tactical Gear, Military Gear, Ohio Airsoft Retailer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2005 - 2009 Airsoft Ohio