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Old 11-26-2011, 05:14 PM
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Exclamation Gears wont spin.

Ok so recently I installed some SHS 13:1 gears in my m4. I properly shimmed the gearbox and greased it. The gears spin perfectly when im doing it by hand, no rubbing sounds or anything like that. I decided to test just the gears with the motor to make sure they spin, I tested the motor to make sure it was spinning and installed it. No matter how I adjust the motor it just screeches and the gears refuse to spin. I have tested it multiple times and I cant seem to figure out the problem, does anyone know what could be causing this? Any advice and help is appreciated, I would like to try and fix it myself before having to hand it over elsewhere.
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:22 PM
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two things come to mind. One, the motor isn't seated correctly onto the gears. too far in or not in far enough. The other idea, the wires on the motor are backwards, causing the motor to turn the opposite way. that was an issue on a gun I worked on last summer. tried to spin backwards. the ARL engaged and nothing turned.

Take the advice with a grain of salt, i'm just a beginner in the world of working on the guns, so my diagnosis could be way off too.
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:52 PM
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Some SHS gears have off-centered axes and get bound up. Put one gear in at a time and spin them to see if they are centered.
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:55 PM
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i think rygars second option is the best bet. dont forget to check your timing!!
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:00 PM
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Were the gearbox screws torqued down when you did the shimming? If not, that little bit "extra" torque during final assembly could be just enough to bind everything up.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:27 PM
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Ok well I THINK I may have found the problem but cant seem to correct it. What seems to happen is when I put the other side of the sell on it locks up the gears, they get really tight and wont move. I tried messing with the shimming with no luck.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:34 PM
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It really sounds like your bevel gear isnt shimmed properly. Ive had the same problem with shs highspeed gears. If you think your spur gear and sector are shimmed right then try and play with the bevel gears height. Remember you dont want the bevel to be to tight or to loose try and find a happy medium. Good luck
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:31 PM
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Does your motor pinion head match the SHS gears?
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:53 PM
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UPDATE: The gears are now spinning but it still is really loud, maybe adjust the motor height ir the shims?
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:55 PM
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Shimming of the bevel gear will take the wine out of the box , Try and adjusting the motor height first.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:57 PM
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Usually if its loud the motor is to high, or the bevel is to tight.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:06 PM
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Sometimes you have to get a specific pinion gear to match the gears properly. Might be the issue if your positive the shimming is correct.
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:18 PM
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Update: I got the gears spinning so i put everything together, put the motor in and pulled the trigger, It screeched very loudly and I noticed the air nozzle was locked back, I dont know what is causing the nozzle to lock back like that.
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:20 PM
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The tappet plate is probably jammed.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:59 PM
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Old but a good place to start. If nothing else pull all the shims and start over. Sometimes it is easier then trying to adjust what you have.
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Old 11-27-2011, 09:01 AM
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I think you may have faulty gears, that's always a possibility. I would try to get you hands on a different brand of high-speed gears and see if those perform differently.
Brands can interfere with each other with all of them copying marui one way from another.
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Old 11-27-2011, 01:36 PM
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Before he goes and dumps another load of cash on another gear set that he probably doesn't need, it would make more sense for him to take it to someone who knows exactly what they're doing and how to further diagnose his issue.

In the spirit of him wanting to do it himself and learn, the other thing I can recommend to do is this.

If you don't already have an electronic caliper, go and buy one at Sears or somewhere else that sells them. They're about $15-$20 dollars for a decent one.

Next, measure the thickness of each of the shims. If you purchased a shim kit, like the one from Systema, then a capiler is not really needed as the package explains the shape and thickness of each. Generally, shim kits come with .2mm, .3mm and .5mm shims.

The next thing he needs to do is to have his gearbox laying on the left side (the side that you screw the trigger switch down to), and then remove any stock shims currently on the spur and bevel gears. Next, place a .2mm shim on the bottom spur gear shaft, and install the spur gear. Close up the gearbox entirely, and screw in 3 or 4 screws around the rear of the gearbox. I usually put at least one screw along the top, then screw in the rear gearbox screw, then one at the bottom near the motor, and sometimes the one in front of the trigger assembly.

Next, take a small screwdriver, and push against the gear shaft on both sides of the gearbox to determine and estimate how much play there is, or how much the gear moves from left to right and back, as you push. Then reopen the gearbox, and add shims, close the gearbox, screw it down again, and retest until the gear spins freely and there is no more side to side movement. It is best to remove the entire piston, cylinder, cylinder head assembly so that you can use a small screwdriver to easily spin the gear during your test.

Once you have he spur gear installed properly, the next thing you want to do is to install a .2mm shim onto the bevel gear on the end with the small gear, and them basically repeat the same procedure I explained above to ensure that the bevel gear is properly seating and spinning. Note: You should be able to flick the spur gear with a small screwdriver and be able to get 1 to 2 full rotations before they stop spinning.

The sector gear can be a bit more difficult to install, especially with cheap gearsets like the ones from SHS because their sector gears are often not made to Marui width spec. Generally if you have a problem with the gears not spinning, this is where the problem occurs.

Add a .3mm shim to the bottom side of the shaft and set it in the gearbox. At this point, you want to make sure that the sector gear and spur gear are not binding (rubbing together). Be aware of this, while you add shims to the top of the sector gear and doing the closed gearbox test again. If it is binding up against the spur gear, remove the .3mm shim and add two .2mm shims and retest. Each time you test, you will need to have additional shims on the top of the sector gear to ensure it's not moving left-right. It may take a few tries, but once you get it right and your gears are spinning correctly, you can then begin to finish up the gearbox, install the anti-reversal latch, cylinder assembly, etc.

Also, remember that the tappet plate should be beneath the upper shims on the sector gear too. When reassemblying the gearbox and installing the right side shell, these shims can sometimes pop off because of flex in the tappet plate. MAKE SURE the sector gear's smooth side is facing toward the top of the gearbox, and the tappet peg on the sector gear isn't interfering with the tappet plate either. This should make things easier.

Once you get the gearbox back together and have the gun reassembled, and motor installed, you will likely need to make slight adjustments to the motor depth. ONLY make shots in semi-auto at first until you are sure the gears are meshing correctly and the gun at least fires. Slowly increase the depth by turning the motor adjustment screw clockwise until you can feel the motor trying to overwork to turn the gears. This is a sign the gear teeth of the motor's pinion gear are pushing too hard against the bevel gear inside the gearbox. Once this occurs, back out the motor slightly until it seems normal again. At this point, you can put the gun into full-auto and make any final adjustments. You also might want to remove the motor adjustment screw and put a VERY small dab of Loctite thread lock on it too ensure that the motor screw won't back out later. In full auto, it is much easier to adjust the motor and hear the changes in pitch and gearbox speed as you make adjustments. Just be sure to make VERY small adjustments too.

If the gears are still making a screeching sound after you've done all of this, it either means to need to add additional lube, or that the pinion gear of the motor is not fully compatible with the SHS gearset. 98% of AEG's out there are close enough, but a few are not. Since you never mentioned what brand of AEG you're installing this gear set into (you only mentioned it was an M4), I can't even make a guess as to whether or not the motor is an issue.

I hope this information dramatically helps you get things working and wish you the best of luck.
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Old 11-27-2011, 02:22 PM
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I am using an AMP high torque motor darkstar, I also have the stock Echo1 motor my stag came with. But ill try what you said and keep everyone updated.
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Old 11-27-2011, 02:59 PM
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Ok well I decided to reinstall my old gears and they work fine, I shimmed them and the gun fires like it used to. I guess it may have been the SHS gears, they did seem to be really tight in the gearbox no matter how I shimmed them.
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