Airsoft Ohio Forums  
  #1  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:58 PM
Icepick's Avatar
Icepick Icepick is offline
Bandwidth waste
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: West Chester
Posts: 106
Icepick is a Private
iTrader: (0)
KWA M16 DMR project?

So I'm thinking about doing a small DMR project with a KWA M16 BR. Just simple things like 6.01 Madbull, new hop up, bucking, maybe a high torque motor, RIS, DMR stock. Total it would run me somewhere like $200-250 in upgraded parts. The gun is 320. I'm wondering if anyone has this gun and can tell me about it and if a DMR project would be worth it (since my primary is a KWA MP9 as of right now). I need a longer ranged field gun.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-06-2012, 12:44 AM
ColdFusion's Avatar
ColdFusion ColdFusion is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 43023
Posts: 45
ColdFusion is a Private
iTrader: (1)
I have a KWA M16. I'm running a systema magnum motor, ASCU mosfet, and a 6.03 mm prometheus, and a magic box bucking. My personal experience with KWA's 2 piece hop systems is this: fitting an aftermarket one piece hop up is going to require a good bit of modifying of the upper receiver. (AKA there is no point in an aftermarket hop up). I will be surprised if you see a jump in performance by switching bucking... I didn't whatsover, KWA's 2G bucking is fantastic. The internals are fairly impressive, super strong gears ratio is in the 18.x:1.
What kind of spring (or fps) are you looking for?
Aside from some SOME parts compatibility issues particularly issues guide the gun is reliable and is a pretty solid piece
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-08-2012, 06:08 PM
CheEzZy's Avatar
CheEzZy CheEzZy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 30
CheEzZy is a Private
iTrader: (0)
If you do a KWA M16, my DMR build would look kinda like this:
Double o-ring cylinder head
1/4in sorbo pad
shim job
o-ring air nozzle
6.03 madbull
M130 spring
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-09-2012, 09:28 PM
Icepick's Avatar
Icepick Icepick is offline
Bandwidth waste
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: West Chester
Posts: 106
Icepick is a Private
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
What kind of spring (or fps) are you looking for?
I'm looking to push at least 500. And I noticed both of you guys run 6.03 barrels, why not just put the 6.01 in?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-09-2012, 09:35 PM
Rygar's Avatar
Rygar Rygar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio
Posts: 970
Blog Entries: 1
Rygar is a Private
iTrader: (23)
I believe that a 6.03 is more accurate at range because the BB is more stable in that size. the 6.01 will up your FPS, but not as accurate at range. You can more than make up for your FPS by other means. For a DMR, you not only want to get your BB farther away, but also be able to hit what you are shooting at.
__________________
"In the game of airsoft, if you aren't having fun, then you are doing it wrong!"
------------------------
"The herd likes to see the cowboy up on the horse, even if he is asleep in the saddle. It makes them feel better." --Me
-------------------------
" Just to quell the rumors..I did NOT bury my wife under the house so I could come back out and play...........She's under the shed. J/k" --also Me.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-09-2012, 10:57 PM
brian/voodoo's Avatar
brian/voodoo brian/voodoo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 130
brian/voodoo is a Private
iTrader: (10)
Or you could use a TM m14 put a FTK in it and a PSG1 sniper TB in it and be good to go. Thats what I used to use and I out ranged everyone i came up against (i know its not a KWA m16 but its a dif. option.)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-09-2012, 10:59 PM
Spectre's Avatar
Spectre Spectre is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: A land of superior apathy, also known as Cincinnati
Posts: 1,440
Blog Entries: 1
Spectre is a Private First Class
iTrader: (11)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian/voodoo View Post
Or you could use a TM m14 put a FTK in it and a PSG1 sniper TB in it and be good to go. Thats what I used to use and I out ranged everyone i came up against (i know its not a KWA m16 but its a dif. option.)
...why would you put an over-sized barrel in a gun that will also require a bigger cylinder size than stock when even a SOCOM length gives the exact same performance?
__________________
Smile Back
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-09-2012, 11:27 PM
Flenner's Avatar
Flenner Flenner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In 2Tall's basement doing things
Posts: 943
Flenner is a Recruit Private
Send a message via AIM to Flenner Send a message via Skype™ to Flenner
iTrader: (17)
Okay, let's stop with the misinformation here. OP is asking about his buy with KWA and the upgrades.

FIRST, I can probably find this out simply, but am too lazy to check. OP is over 18 years old, correct? If not...then you can only have a gun under 400 FPS.

Second off (or more importantly), I would like to toss this out there, since nobody else has checked in on it. Please keep in mind, that this is EXTREMELY heavy on math, and if you aren't "tuned in", you may misinterpret some of the graphs. Be prepared.

http://mackila.com/airsoft/atp/

The above link can help the OP choose what setup he would like to run first, then he will have to decide on the parts he wishes to upgrade. With KWA stock parts having either an A+ shimjob and compression/or the exact opposite, it would be better to buy another M16 with the same parts, or even build one from the ground up if at all possible. Consistency is the golden key here, do not let anything but perfect surpass your sight.

To answer OP's question directly, the KWA M16 has a very shotty aftermarket part compatibility in terms of OEM specifications, but can do the job you wish it to do. The FIRST thing you need to do with any stock gun, is to make your hop-up more consistent. There are many ways to do that with different nubs, buckings, and even some AW-CCP installations. The point of the matter is that buying the gun, and THEN spending that amount of money on the gun is almost ludicrous, when there are cheaper guns and aftermarket parts that can be had for ~$300-$400 total, or even saving MORE money by buying a used gun from someone here and "upgrading" from there.

You'll find out that a wider bore barrel has a better long-range consistency than tighter-bores, too. I suggest keeping the stock barrel and polishing it to a mirror finish (much like a shotgun barrel).

If you have any serious questions regarding air-smithing and consistency, I suggest contacting Jonezy. He boasts guns that range from somewhere in the 300-400' range with man-sized groupings.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
**** you I'm Reed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Thus marketh the only time anyone hath used the search feature on AO
in 2Tall's basement doing things

Last edited by Flenner; 12-09-2012 at 11:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-10-2012, 12:08 AM
ColdFusion's Avatar
ColdFusion ColdFusion is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 43023
Posts: 45
ColdFusion is a Private
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGE Company View Post
I'm looking to push at least 500. And I noticed both of you guys run 6.03 barrels, why not just put the 6.01 in?
There are other great threads on AO explaining why bore quality/consistency is much more important than bore diameter. I have indeed heard good things about the 6.23mm wide bore barrels alongside the namazu flat hop nubs. For me the namazu flat hop mod was ineffective with my KWA, so I ditched it. (could just be another KWA thing.)

My KWA shoots 470 fps w/ .20 gram with a Systema M130 Spring. If you are looking for 500 fps. I would play around with an SP140 by Guarder or M140 madbull (notoriously stronger springs.) But than again that's just my personal KWA M16 that shot that hard with that particular spring yours may be different.

*My KWA M16 (purchased in '08) came with a Type 1 cylinder. Even though a Type 0 cylinder can be employed in the gun effectively with that barrel length. Not a bad thing to consider.

I'd surely recommend a High Torque motor.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-10-2012, 12:42 AM
Spectre's Avatar
Spectre Spectre is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: A land of superior apathy, also known as Cincinnati
Posts: 1,440
Blog Entries: 1
Spectre is a Private First Class
iTrader: (11)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flenner View Post
Okay, let's stop with the misinformation here. OP is asking about his buy with KWA and the upgrades.

FIRST, I can probably find this out simply, but am too lazy to check. OP is over 18 years old, correct? If not...then you can only have a gun under 400 FPS.

Second off (or more importantly), I would like to toss this out there, since nobody else has checked in on it. Please keep in mind, that this is EXTREMELY heavy on math, and if you aren't "tuned in", you may misinterpret some of the graphs. Be prepared.

http://mackila.com/airsoft/atp/

The above link can help the OP choose what setup he would like to run first, then he will have to decide on the parts he wishes to upgrade. With KWA stock parts having either an A+ shimjob and compression/or the exact opposite, it would be better to buy another M16 with the same parts, or even build one from the ground up if at all possible. Consistency is the golden key here, do not let anything but perfect surpass your sight.

To answer OP's question directly, the KWA M16 has a very shotty aftermarket part compatibility in terms of OEM specifications, but can do the job you wish it to do. The FIRST thing you need to do with any stock gun, is to make your hop-up more consistent. There are many ways to do that with different nubs, buckings, and even some AW-CCP installations. The point of the matter is that buying the gun, and THEN spending that amount of money on the gun is almost ludicrous, when there are cheaper guns and aftermarket parts that can be had for ~$300-$400 total, or even saving MORE money by buying a used gun from someone here and "upgrading" from there.

You'll find out that a wider bore barrel has a better long-range consistency than tighter-bores, too. I suggest keeping the stock barrel and polishing it to a mirror finish (much like a shotgun barrel).

If you have any serious questions regarding air-smithing and consistency, I suggest contacting Jonezy. He boasts guns that range from somewhere in the 300-400' range with man-sized groupings.
What misinformation...? You did the exact same thing as everyone else by passively suggesting a different platform. But instead of helpfully insinuating that any first time builder will spend a good amount of time and money investigating what works best for them you come off as a rather arrogant and therefor ignorant poster. We get it, you like getting butt-humped by Jonzey, but that is no reason to immediately disclaim all other's personal experiences as "misinformation."

Bore diameter is still here-say from person to person. Its also something your poorly written article fails to address.
__________________
Smile Back
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:33 AM
brian/voodoo's Avatar
brian/voodoo brian/voodoo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 130
brian/voodoo is a Private
iTrader: (10)
@spectre the barrel isnt oversized its goes to the end of the m14 flash hider and it does not require a bigger cylinder than stock and the SOCOM does not give the same performance. Sorry bud i used that exact set up for 6 years you can even talk to Frank about it that gun was awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-10-2012, 11:56 AM
swervin45601 swervin45601 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 205
swervin45601 is a Private
Send a message via Yahoo to swervin45601
iTrader: (3)
The op is about kwa. But I'll share my dmr experience. I went with a ICS base the split gearbox is nice when it comes to spring/piston changes. I upgraded the airseal, spring, piston, barrel, and installed a mosfet. With a good lipo the trigger response was decent with the stock motor. I ran this setup for over a year at 500 fps with no issues. The ics hopup paired with a r-hop was extremely consistent
__________________
<img src=http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/RachIrvin/sig.jpg border=0 alt= />

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texx View Post
Am pretty sure P* run off the tears of those who can't afford them.

Last edited by swervin45601; 12-10-2012 at 12:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-10-2012, 06:22 PM
NightWolf's Avatar
NightWolf NightWolf is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 770
NightWolf is a Private
Send a message via AIM to NightWolf Send a message via MSN to NightWolf Send a message via Yahoo to NightWolf
iTrader: (7)
I have built my share of KWA DMR's for teamates and friends from their M-16 platform and all with good results.

I do not recommend a mosfet, as most will have difficulty with the higher spring pull and hence, higher amp draws; I have seen many a DMR fail in the field because the mosfet couldn't handle the load and this applies to not just the KWA, but several different brands of modified guns and mosfets.

I would recommend a PSG 590mm x 6.03mm TB Barrel, M140 spring and a good Torque Motor for the internals. This is all you really need to change in order to get the range you need. KWA hopup units and buckings work well all the way to 500fps, which is the highest we tested during our builds. The KWA's with a M140 spring started at 500fps and finally settled around 475fps after about a thousand rounds. These guns produced very good results with a notable increase in distance.

Something that was not mentioned though I would also recommend are a couple of external mods. Fore one, you will need to purchase a supressor of some kind to shield the longer inner barrel. Also, a free-floating RIS is highly recommended and often overlooked. You will probably want a bipod and it should be designed to mount on the RIS to keep any outer barrel flex away, which is caused by barrel mounted bipods or fixed forgrips that apply pressure to the outer barrel when held or supported. Such a setup will add the consistency to your shots that you expect.

Finally, you will have to mod the gun for semi-auto only and there are several threads here talking about the different ways to do this mod.
__________________





Last edited by NightWolf; 12-10-2012 at 06:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:06 PM
Jonezy's Avatar
Jonezy Jonezy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 761
Blog Entries: 3
Jonezy is a Private
iTrader: (41)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
We get it, you like getting butt-humped by Jonzey, but that is no reason to immediately disclaim all other's personal experiences as "misinformation."


If you're going to attempt to insult me directly or indirectly, at least spell my username correctly. It's J-O-N-E-Z-Y. Not that I really care, it'll just make you look like less of a tool.

The amount of misinformation in this thread is outstanding. RAGE Company, if you'd like to hear what advice I have for you, please send me a private message and I'll help you in private. It's not even worth my time and effort to post build advice on forums like this anymore and defend it from all the people that haven't a clue what they're doing inside gearboxes.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:13 PM
Flenner's Avatar
Flenner Flenner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In 2Tall's basement doing things
Posts: 943
Flenner is a Recruit Private
Send a message via AIM to Flenner Send a message via Skype™ to Flenner
iTrader: (17)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
What misinformation...? You did the exact same thing as everyone else by passively suggesting a different platform. But instead of helpfully insinuating that any first time builder will spend a good amount of time and money investigating what works best for them you come off as a rather arrogant and therefor ignorant poster. We get it, you like getting butt-humped by Jonzey, but that is no reason to immediately disclaim all other's personal experiences as "misinformation."

Bore diameter is still here-say from person to person. Its also something your poorly written article fails to address.
One of the reasons I like getting butt-jumped by J-O-N-E-Z-Y is because he's been one of my best friends for at least 6 years, and he's good friends with my significant other. By the way, I've owned and maintained a KWA 2GX gearbox for almost 4 years and running. There's a reason I'm suggesting another platform.

I forgot to mention, he has a huge E-P3N15, too. I know you know that, because you're so butthurt. C'mon, Spectre, grow up a little bit man.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
**** you I'm Reed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Thus marketh the only time anyone hath used the search feature on AO
in 2Tall's basement doing things

Last edited by Flenner; 12-10-2012 at 09:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:58 PM
Red's Avatar
Red Red is offline
Pro Communitus
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Columbus
Posts: 2,764
Blog Entries: 6
Red is a CorporalRed is a CorporalRed is a Corporal
iTrader: (31)
Sigh.

I let this one go, hoping that the thread poster would get some decent information. Can you guys drop your egos and instead of attempting to be right, help the guy out? Put up your suggestions and let the guy decide for himself. First and last warning, no bickering. Drop it now.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-16-2012, 12:42 PM
Icepick's Avatar
Icepick Icepick is offline
Bandwidth waste
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: West Chester
Posts: 106
Icepick is a Private
iTrader: (0)
Thanks for the help guys. Nightwolf, it sound like I'll go with that exact build. I was wondering about high torque motors. Any suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-16-2012, 01:30 PM
BigRed2014's Avatar
BigRed2014 BigRed2014 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: #3hunna #OBlock
Posts: 291
BigRed2014 has been Court Martialled
iTrader: (11)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGE Company View Post
Thanks for the help guys. Nightwolf, it sound like I'll go with that exact build. I was wondering about high torque motors. Any suggestions?
Lonex A2 (the one with the orange bell) hands down. One of the best motors on the market right now. It is an absolute workhorse, especially when paired with an 11.1v LiPo.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian View Post
Ain't nobody got time fo my ****ty car!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-16-2012, 01:38 PM
Failcat's Avatar
Failcat Failcat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 30
Failcat is a Private
iTrader: (0)
Some good info here. I personally dislike KWA for performance builds due to (as mentioned) the lack of aftermarket upgrade availability. The entire 2GX system is designed to work best with... well... 2GX parts. The hopup unit is probably the biggest restriction on stock KWAs that I have seen thus far. In my experience (I'm sure someone with more will correct me haha) the KWA chambers have trouble with heavy BBs. I've always run .3g bbs and up for the past few years, and the KWA hops never seem to crack it. Obviously you could modify other units to work, but I'd probably just go with a whole different gun all together if it comes to that. The guns are solid as all hell for the most part, but just aren't for me from what I've seen.

Now, if you do decide to go down the KWA build-road anyway, I'll throw in some input. I'd personally worry about the barrel assembly before anything else. While higher velocity will aid performance in most cases, it will be most noticeable after modifications are made.

My main point of focus is always throwing in a good barrel/bucking combo. TONS of speculation on what is exactly "best." I've always stuck with PDI, Systema, and Prometheus for barrels, I was never terribly impressed by the Madbull barrels personally.

Bucking wise, obviously there's tons of hype on the 2GX buckings. KWA builds in a bit of a different design onto the contact patch of the bucking, one which conforms to the BB, which is a pretty huge design point on a lot of aftermarket buckings. I've always put my trust into Prometheus' purple bucking, but hey, that's me. I'm not even going to get into R-Hop, Flat hop or anything haha. Carpel tunnel is setting in

After you have a solid barrel assembly, I'd focus on compression parts; ie. everything inside of the gearbox that contributes to propelling the BB. A good cylinder, cylinder head, piston head, and air nozzle could benefit an AEG's consistency downrange pretty dramatically, considering most of these parts never even touch the BB. Once again, lots of speculation on brand names for this stuff, I've always like Prometheus and Modify. The "type" of cylinder you choose will indeed perform differently depending on the barrel length you go with.

Only then would I begin to focus on things regarding how fast the gun cycles. Just my 2 cents
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-16-2012, 03:26 PM
Jonezy's Avatar
Jonezy Jonezy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Perrysburg, OH
Posts: 761
Blog Entries: 3
Jonezy is a Private
iTrader: (41)
Failcat, you got nearly everything I would have mentioned. Just a few corrections and additions:

1. The KWA 2GX bucking is to blame for the poor performance with heavy BBs. The slits in the mound actually cause the bucking to contact the BB less when compared to a regular bucking.

2. A JG upper hopup unit can be used to work around the problems regarding bucking fitment in KWA M4s.

I echo your advice about Prometheus purple (soft) buckings. If you refuse to go the R-hop route, a Prometheus bucking is certainly the next best thing in my book.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-16-2012, 09:09 PM
Icepick's Avatar
Icepick Icepick is offline
Bandwidth waste
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: West Chester
Posts: 106
Icepick is a Private
iTrader: (0)
I'm not planning on running Li-Po with this setup. I have a 9.6v 5000mah large type battery which I feel like will have PLENTY of power.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-16-2012, 09:12 PM
TheAlbinoNinja's Avatar
TheAlbinoNinja TheAlbinoNinja is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 257
TheAlbinoNinja is a Private
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGE Company View Post
I'm not planning on running Li-Po with this setup. I have a 9.6v 5000mah large type battery which I feel like will have PLENTY of power.
If you use the Lonex A2, a 9.6v will run somewhat sluggishly. I can speak from experience, I use that very motor, and the difference in trigger response from a 9.6v battery to a 7.4v LiPo is quite noticeable.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-20-2012, 05:03 PM
Icepick's Avatar
Icepick Icepick is offline
Bandwidth waste
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: West Chester
Posts: 106
Icepick is a Private
iTrader: (0)
I'm not sure about using li-po. I'm not too good with gearbox internals aside from piston or spring. Of course li-po will put more wear on the gears and I don't know if I'll have the technical capability of shimming or replacing gears.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-20-2012, 05:53 PM
TheAlbinoNinja's Avatar
TheAlbinoNinja TheAlbinoNinja is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 257
TheAlbinoNinja is a Private
iTrader: (1)
A 7.4v LiPo won't hurt your gearbox, you'll only start having problems if you go to an 11.1v.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-21-2012, 01:23 AM
AirsoftAquarium AirsoftAquarium is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
AirsoftAquarium is a Private
iTrader: (0)
I've been toying with turning my KWA M16 into a DMR. I don't have a good scope yet but I'm running mostly stock internals with a g&g high torque motor, mad bull 6.01 560mm barrel. I'm getting a AIM sports 4x32 Tri-Illuminated Scope w/ Tri-Rail RR Reticle & QD Mount for xmas so hopefully that will work out well. the reason i haven't toyed with internals yet is it seems like most fields have a 400 fps limit anyways and i think a stock KWA exceeds that anyways.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
2gx, dmr, kwa, m16

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTS: KWA MP7+Custom M16 SPR DMR malik Electric-Powered Weaponry 0 09-25-2012 01:05 AM
Kwa m16 dmr Brenden45424 Electric-Powered Weaponry 14 10-01-2011 08:57 PM
WTS: One Bad @#! KWA DMR HK Electric-Powered Weaponry 25 10-27-2010 03:54 PM
Making a Tough Decision: DMR Choices xSh4d0w Sh0cKx Electric Guns (AEG) 6 07-11-2010 11:18 AM
kwa M16 dmr project BioDemonic Electric Guns (AEG) 24 06-22-2009 09:38 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:37 PM.


Airsoft Guns, Tactical Gear, Military Gear, Ohio Airsoft Retailer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2005 - 2009 Airsoft Ohio