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Old 04-14-2014, 05:42 PM
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Exclamation Research Poll

Hey guys and gals, I am doing a research essay on the impact of SB 199. One part of my essay is how it could potentially hurt major retailers such as Evike.com or Airsoft G.I. So my question to you is, if SB 199 were to pass and all Airsoft guns that were sold by a retailer were to be colored a bright florescent color, would you buy from that retailer and why.

I really appreciate you taking the time to read this and hopefully leave a reply.
Thanks again, Ultheran
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:16 PM
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I mean, there's a lot of variables is this such as availability of non colored guns, legality of repainting in other states, etc. Assuming everything is quid pro quo except all the aforementioned retailers have neon guns, no because I see airsoft as more fun, non-lethal military simulations than something like a casual hobby or sport, so I want realism, or at least something that won't stick out like a neon orange airsoft gun in a bush. Hell, I'd be willing to pay $50 or $75 more to buy a local gun that's not bedazzled or whatever than one that is online.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TPickles View Post
I mean, there's a lot of variables is this such as availability of non colored guns, legality of repainting in other states, etc. Assuming everything is quid pro quo except all the aforementioned retailers have neon guns, no because I see airsoft as more fun, non-lethal military simulations than something like a casual hobby or sport, so I want realism, or at least something that won't stick out like a neon orange airsoft gun in a bush. Hell, I'd be willing to pay $50 or $75 more to buy a local gun that's not bedazzled or whatever than one that is online.
I share Tpickles opinion
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:27 PM
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Of course I would not because that is bull**** and because 'Merica! Shame for the retailer though.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:05 AM
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I will not comply with the regulation in the first place. I understand the legalities and srs bzns with the realism, but many of the situations where police have shot and killed have been because that replica looked "real" to the officers. Normally there would be a class or some type of training to distinguish the real firearms from the fake, but the real problem isn't being addressed here.

Firearm safety needs to be taught, and if it isn't, "suicide by cop" is normally the result. For this particular reason, I won't buy from the retailers. They shouldn't sell the replicas if they're bad for business.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:41 AM
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Real guns come in fluorescent colors as well (not as often but still). I would not abide by the rule nor would I buy the bright colored guns from a retailer.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:44 AM
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I'm thinking I could find an illegal website to continue to buy non colored guns. As stated by Falcon, "Because 'Merica!" Amen brother, amen......
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:34 AM
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:32 AM
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Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate it. This is very helpful for my research paper so keep em coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flenner View Post
Firearm safety needs to be taught, and if it isn't, "suicide by cop" is normally the result. For this particular reason, I won't buy from the retailers. They shouldn't sell the replicas if they're bad for business.
For my final Speech I am actually do it on why we need to teach firearm safety because of all the recent incidents with stupid people being killed over fake guns.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ultheran View Post
if SB 199 were to pass and all Airsoft guns that were sold by a retailer were to be colored a bright florescent color
That's not what the law says.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sky View Post
That's not what the law says.
16700. (a) As used in this part, “imitation firearm” means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
(b) As used in Section 20165, “imitation firearm” does not include any of the following:
(1) A nonfiring collector’s replica that is historically significant, and is offered for sale in conjunction with a wall plaque or presentation case.
(2) A spot marker gun which expels a projectile that is greater than 10mm caliber.
(3) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device’s complete contents.

Retrieved from here

So in a nutshell the Airsoft gun would have to be colored a bright color or clear.
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Last edited by Ultheran; 04-16-2014 at 01:23 PM. Reason: To provide more accurate siting
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:47 PM
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Not a chance would I buy from them.

If SB 199 were passed, I think it would hurt said California retailers a lot. It might also help the locals out though, if the locals can keep their guns the right color.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:28 PM
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I think HB 199 or whatever the hell its called would really effect the small business owners that are the lifeblood of the hobby. The so-called "big box" airsoft retailers are big enough they can shift business operations elsewhere and still maintain their profit margins.

The hobbyists will continue to build the guns they want, order parts from out of state.

Really this bill accomplishes nothing but to shut down the small busine4ss that can't afford to move out of state or kiss a politicians butt to CYA.

Other than that, this is California politics which doesn't concern anyone living outside of California. Unless you're a CA voter, there's nothing much you can do to stop this.

Would I still give CA retailers my business? THat all depends on whether or not they have what I'm looking for when I decide to spend my money.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:10 PM
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I paint all my guns anyways so Cali politicians can suck my 8====>

But really though, there's a part here that really bothers me:

"any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm."

How do you objectively define "substantially similar in coloration"? What if I paint my Nerf gun black or wood stain it; is that enough to constitute "substantially similar"? How about if I give it a RIS, crane stock, and ECLAN on my Longshot. Does that make the "overall appearance substantially similar" enough? Secondly, how "reasonable" is a "reasonable person"? What level of reason dictates a "reasonable person"? Sure, there's a definite black and a definite white, but there is no definite border between the two. Instead, there's a large gray zone that's left to interpretation. That's my beef.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda View Post
How do you objectively define "substantially similar in coloration"? What if I paint my Nerf gun black or wood stain it; is that enough to constitute "substantially similar"? How about if I give it a RIS, crane stock, and ECLAN on my Longshot. Does that make the "overall appearance substantially similar" enough?
Seems the bill applies to BB guns and is defined as; "used in this part, “BB device” means any instrument that expels a projectile, such as a BB or a pellet, not exceeding 6mm caliber, through the force of air pressure, gas pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun." So I doubt nerf guns would apply.


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Secondly, how "reasonable" is a "reasonable person"? What level of reason dictates a "reasonable person"? Sure, there's a definite black and a definite white, but there is no definite border between the two. Instead, there's a large gray zone that's left to interpretation. That's my beef.
Good questions, the reasonable person standard is used a great deal in common law and more information can be found here. As far as there being a gray area left open to interpretation, welcome to the beauty of the American legal system.

To answer the OP, it would not really affect me because krylon exists. However what I wonder is how able is a company like JG to completely change the way it makes it's guns? Hard for a retailer to even sell clear guns if nobody decides to make them.
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Old 04-16-2014, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultheran View Post
For my final Speech I am actually do it on why we need to teach firearm safety because of all the recent incidents with stupid people being killed over fake guns.

Wrote a big paper on this in College. The professors never like when the sided arguments come into play in a paper. Most times, I would stay away from this because it can cause turmoil with professors or teachers.

As much as the research says about the real facts upon firearm ownership, hunting and recreational uses, defense purposes, as well as other smaller points like the investment in firearms and ammunition....most teachers or professors just don't understand the point of firearms or defense in general.

Notice, even some paintball guns may need to be painted bright colors, although most are .68 caliber. (~17mm)

As for firearm safety, this point you will be making needs to make sure that you are not forcing the ownership of any type of firearm down anyones' throats. The gun argument is a touchy subject nowadays, and it's apparently now an opinion (such as abortion, gay marriage, etc....) so tread lightly in your monologue.

Good luck,
Flenner
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:54 AM
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(2) A BB device spot marker gun which expels a projectile that is greater than 10mm caliber.

That seems not to cover 6mm airsoft ? what am I missing....?
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:09 AM
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The sentence two above it.

"(b) As used in Section 20165, “imitation firearm” does not include any of the following:"
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Old 04-16-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i70Pb Airsoft View Post
(2) A BB device spot marker gun which expels a projectile that is greater than 10mm caliber.

That seems not to cover 6mm airsoft ? what am I missing....?
sniped....nevermind
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:20 PM
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@Flenner
Thanks for your advice on my speech. I am very lucky to have a very open minded speech intructor. Of course I will not be saying that every one should go out and buy a gun. I will mostly be touching on if you already or plan on owning a gun, airsoft, ect, that you should practice safety and common since.

@i70pbAirsoft if you read the orignal article in the link i posted i believe the bb device is crossed out. Ill edit post to reflect this more accurately.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:28 PM
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As these are all good questions and discussions, i would like to keep it closer to the OP to avoid this turning into a political discussion which as we all know is prohibited here. The post of the actual bill was just to clear up some questions about it. So please try to keep to the OP. Thanks
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:34 PM
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@Ultheran,

Also look at the CA Penal Code sections 20150-20180 (specifically 20165). This part of the law defines what restrictions actually apply to imitation firearms.

Section 16700 is a list of definitions about what a the words "imitation firearm" mean as it applies to these laws.
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:15 PM
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I wouldn't buy neon replicas from retailers, nor would I follow the rule if all replicas were to be painted neon.

What about the thousands that already exist? Do they get "grandfathered in?" If not, how can you prove what year an airsoft replica was manufactured? It's the easiest law to skirt in the books.

Neon replicas in itself is a ridiculous concept. If I can put my real rifle in a case, drive it down the road to the range, and go shoot it, why the hell can't I put my airsoft rifle in a case, drive it down the road to the local airsoft center, and go shoot it?

If no-one sees it besides the people who know what it is and what I'm doing with it, what does it matter? You aren't going to save anyone's life. Every damned kid with a neon Glock is going to spraypaint that ***** black, because neon is lame.

It's the kid's (and failing that, mommy and daddy's) responsibility to understand what the hell he has in his hands, and how much trouble he could get into with it.

If he can't comprehend the repercussions, he shouldn't have one, anyway.

The bill is asinine.


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Old 04-18-2014, 08:36 AM
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My biggest problem with this bill is if you see someone that has a AK-47 with a holo sight, 40mm grenade launcher, suppressor, PEQ box, and/or other attachments that are really only available to military and law enforcement(or people with class 3 licence), then its probably airsoft. So as it has been stated before in a previous reply, people really just need to use common sense with stuff like this.

In my opinion, the only reason this bill is being considered is because people are scared, and when people are scared they do illogical actions with no regard for what might happen afterwards.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:32 PM
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There is no "probably" when it comes to weapons and most people are not modern weapon experts. Don't brandish a realistic gun at the wrong time. If you do, you might get shot. Problem solved.
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