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Old 05-22-2009, 12:27 PM
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The Art of the Sniper

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Situation:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Snipers are hunters of men. They are considered an elite, highly skilled profession. Airsoft is full of sniper wannabe's (just look at all the names) but realistically an Airsoft sniper is woefully outgunned, outnumbered and easily out maneuvered on the airsoft field because of the short range, limited game times and scenario settings. Bolt action rifles are near worthless in the fast paced combat that takes place. Quantity of fire is more preferable for every airsoft 'profession' rather than precision fire due to the range and inaccuracy of most airsoft weapons. Sniper wannabe's are told to go with automatic, long range rifles instead of bolt action. Snipers in ghillie suits are also hard to identify as being on a specific team, ghillie suits are hot, uncomfortable and just not worth the trouble. Snipers are supposed to be masters of stealth, accuracy and cunning. They may spend hours stalking prey or waiting in ambush with nothing to show for it but a single kill. It really sucks to spend an hour getting into position and then having to head back in because the game is over. This proposal is a way to bring the Art of the Sniper to Airsoft in a way that adds to the experience, letting snipers do their thing and the gung-ho, assault oriented (and others) types do their thing.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Mission:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Create scenarios where snipers can execute sniper style missions while participating in larger more standard scenarios in order to add depth to standard scenarious and allow sniper initiates to hone their skills and experience the thrill of the hunt.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Execution:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Snipers become a 3rd (or 4th) team in the standard scenario settings. Snipers are required to wear a full ghillie suit, carry bolt action rifles, a watch and a standard long range radio. A SMALL (ie Pistol) sidearm is optional. Snipers may work in teams or as lone wolves. Before the game starts snipers are deployed to the field ahead of the other teams (ie Green & Tan). Several members of both teams are given a marker of some kind (ie Major, Captain, Lieutenant bars, kill tags, etc) or some form of visible marker. These poor bastards are designated sniper targets aka Sniper Bait. The standard teams are deployed to begin their regular missions and at game start Snipers are given radio instructions based on the below scenarios.

A Sniper's goal is to acquire confirmed kills rather than participate in regular team missions. Snipers do not belong to any specific team.

With the exception of Sniper Bait all other players are to ignore snipers. This gives the snipers something of a fighting chance with all the trigger happy players on the field running around looking to unload their automatic weapons. Sniper bait may 'kill' snipers at will. A dead sniper must remain in place for 10 minutes (variable). Regular players are allowed to call out the location of snipers and otherwise protect the Sniper Bait.

Anybody shot at by a sniper may return fire. If the sniper shoots a non-designated target then that sniper has temporarily entered the game as an enemy sniper and can be killed by anybody who places rounds on target. (Bolt action rifle versus multiple automatic weapons? Your call).

Designated targets that are shot by a sniper may have additional penalties. Optionally the sniper bait must lay down in position for five minutes, then turn over their marker to the sniper and return to spawn to wait for 5-10 minutes. The sniper may retrieve the marker and release the target to spawn at any time during the 5 minutes. Snipers must call in the target as a confirmed kill. If the sniper does not retrieve the marker it is left at the spawn point or put away. The killed target is then exempt from being sniper bait unless/until they get a new kill marker. They may refrain from participating as this will reduce the number of designated targets and increase competition among snipers.

Snipers who collect markers recieve "Confirmed Kill" points. Snipers who are killed by their targets must surrender a confirmed kill point. Snipers may not get a negative count during the day.

Anyone may listen in on the Sniper channel for sniper instructions.

Snipers may engage each other at will if nemesis rules are used.

The game does not end for snipers until they walk off the field. If the regular teams are between games snipers may only target each other and must exercise extreme caution because of those players that incorrectly think it is safe to remove a mask in between games.

SCENARIOS:

STANDARD SNIPER OPERATIONS: Snipers may stalk only designated targets and their nemesis.

FREE FOR ALL: Snipers may engage designated targets of any team. Snipers may also engage other snipers at will.

DESIGNATED SNIPER SUPPORT: Snipers are only authorized to engage targets of one team. The other team is considered friendly. This can flip flop.

SNIPER VENGENCE: A certain uniform type can be designated as sniper bait (ie Marpat, multicap, desert, flecktarn, etc)

GENERAL SNIPER SUPPORT: Snipers may engage any member on a designated team, regardless of whether they are a designated target or not. (This can be used to balance things out for an outnumbered team)

ANTI-SNIPER: Sniper VS Sniper only. Standard teams are window dressing in this mini-war.

SNIPER BAIT: Snipers are given a specific target (ie downed pilot, VIP, etc) and must take out that target. Meat shields (aka bodyguards) are fair game as well. All snipers are the enemy of the specific target. A confirmed kill is awarded only if the sniper bait is killed. If the sniper is killed after the sniper bait a confirmed kill is still awarded.

SNIPER HUNT: The predator becomes the prey as both regular teams begin hunting the snipers. The standard teams may or may not be hostile toward each other as each team tries to bag the most snipers. Snipers may of course defend themselves with bolt action rifles but the key is to aovid getting killed, not to score kills.

SNIPER RENEGADE: One sniper/sniper team is called renegade and all other snipers are tasked with taking out that sniper. Optionally everyone on the field can be tasked with hunting down the sniper.

INTELLIGENCE GATHERING: Snipers may pass on sightings and information to designated team captains and may or may not engage based on the Captains orders. (ie Downed Pilot recovery, Hostage Rescue). Team captains should have radios.

ACQUISITION: Something is hidden on the field that the snipers must find. (ie Briefcase, ammo can, etc).

OPTIONS:

NEMISIS: Snipers are not friendly to each other and may shoot each other to collect kill markers. Optionally before the games snipers may agree to be each other's nemesis. The two snipers (or two-man teams) are ALWAYS at war and may always target each other regardless of the current sniper mission parameters.

AMMO LIMITS: Snipers are only allowed to take 30 sniper rounds out onto the field. Optionally they may sacrafice a confirmed kill for 30 more rounds. The Sniper Coordinator may carry those rounds.

SNIPER TEAMS: One member of a sniper team may carry an AEG. Confirmed kills are not awarded to AEG carriers. (or are only given a half, or quarter point unless the target was an enemy sniper in which case a full point is awarded). AEG carriers are there to support and protect the sniper, not score kills. A Sniper team MUST Stay together (at least within range of each other)

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Administration and Logistics:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

Snipers must carry the following onto the field;
1. Water
2. Bolt Action Rifle
3. 2-way radio that can talk with the Sniper Coordinator (headset is highly recommended)
4. Ghillie Suit
5. Watch
6. Sidearm (pistol) is optional.

A Sniper Coordinator should be designated. This is the most likely going to be the game host/referee.

Snipers must be very familiar with the sniper rules.



__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Command & Signal:
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Sniper Coordinator is responsible for establishing a channel for use and snipers must be able to talk on that channel.
Snipers must communicate kills, order confirmations and status to the Sniper Coordinator.
When the Sniper Coordinator issues a command he must recieve a confirmation from all snipers/sniper teams.
For example: Sniper coordinator calls out "All snipers this is Sniper command. Sniper Mission: Standard Sniper Operations" Snipers will answer "Sniper1 copy Standard Sniper Operations", "Sniper2 copy standard Sniper operations", etc. Failure to answer gives the option to the Sniper Coordinator to designate the non-answering sniper as renegade.


__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
IN SUMMARY
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

The goal is to create an environment that allows snipers to practice the art of the sniper and integrate it with regular games. While it might seem slightly complex the goal is to allow dedicated, professinal snipers to operate and practice their profession without having a lot of rules and explanations for non-snipers. This is more for Veteran players who have a working grasp of Airsoft and want to try something different. It does put an additional burden on organizers but I believe it can add a lot of depth and fun to existing games.

In addition the rules are designed to seperate the snipers from the wannabe's. It is not designed to be a fast paced game, it is designed to be slow, challenging, patient and professional requiring endurance, skill and cunning.

---- just a thought. . . .

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  #2  
Old 05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
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This is obviously well thought out. I like the idea and while i don't agree with all aspects i think its something that should be considered.
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Old 05-22-2009, 12:58 PM
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I don't like the idea that they have to have ghille suits because many snipers don't have ghillie suits
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:35 PM
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I think this is a vastly overcomplicated way of having a forward observer. Plus, I don't think organizers/refs want to dedicate valuable resources just so a few select people can have a mini-event during the main game. If a CO for a team wants a forward observer, he/she can just use a normal rifleman with a scope/a DMR and have the same affect.

The whole thing just seems like an excuse to have "snipers" in a game, even though they're irrelevant 95% of the time.*



*other 5% is for our lulz.
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:51 PM
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I like some of the idea but so of it i do not agree with. Many snipers are not bolt action, the dsr, the sr 25, the dragunov arejust some of the top of my head. I feel if there was more openess on the type of weapon there would be a bigger turnout on the event. i do believe how ever it should be restricted to semi auto only.

I also do not agree with ghille suits as not all real snipers use them. i believe the ghille suit should be optional. but other than that this type of event seems like it would be a lot of fun.
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:57 PM
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I do like the idea of a specific channel on the raidos for the snipers. Because often, I find myself communicating with other DM's and not the rest of the team. But at the same time, you need to be in contact with the team...

So, in short, good ideas (great to me), execution is very unlikely
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:21 PM
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:37 PM
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Yes. Ghillie suits would be required. How else to identify snipers from gun bunnies. Forward observer? Maybe more of the post should be read. Mini Scenario? That all depends on how the organizers use it. Part of the goal is to allow snipers to roam the field, find a good spot and camp so to speak. They can spend hours moving around without having to give themselves away by trudging to a spawn point at end of game.

Reference the semi-automatic vs Bolt Action, Snipers should not be uber-mensch. Put some challenge in there. Besides, real world bolt actions are usually much more accurate than semi. The goal is making every round count not volume of fire. One shot one kill.
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniperking09 View Post
I don't like the idea that they have to have ghille suits because many snipers don't have ghillie suits
US Marine Snipers have ghillie suits. Any sniper that stalks prey outside of an urban environment is going to have a ghillie suit.
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:56 PM
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Something like this was attempted at one of the games I played at. There were actual items that had to be destroyed, simulating a antenna. Because the OPFOR were doing a good job of defending these items, our team dispatched two snipers. We engaged the OPFOR head on while the snipers snuck in and took out the targets.
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:34 PM
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i'll play if u you'll set it up, but i'll only play in the area of clermont county.
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:44 PM
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can the aeg be a sniper? or does it have to be the weapon of a spotter. i have both
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:05 PM
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This part seemed as though it would work with a little tweaking:
Quote:
A Sniper's goal is to acquire confirmed kills rather than participate in regular team missions. Snipers do not belong to any specific team.
I know of several games that have had a third (or fourth) team that was by invite only. The same could be done with snipers, several people are selected long before a game and sent out 10-15 minutes ahead of the main forces. The snipers pick a position and become an independent force with no direct allegiances who can be captured or bought/bribed if you can get into contact with one.
My 2 cents.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:14 AM
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I think that this is a very well thought out system, and personaly I love and would be willing to comply completly with it. However sadly this system is also a tad bit confusing, especialy for younger players, and for thoes who just don't care. most serious snipers i'm sure would go with this, but other members of teams i.e. smg-ers, assaulters, ect. would get confused whos on what team and stuff like that. So mabey just tone down the rules a bit to be a little more confined, that way their easier for others to understand and easy to remeber for all, not just sniper. But over-all amazing idea and suggestion I love and hope we can see something like it soon.
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:53 AM
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It needs to be simplified. Also, asking people not to shoot at a combatant will cause confusion.

I like the idea of tasking the snipers to kill specific people. Just make them(the target or hvt) wear a hat and have organizers confirm the kill via radio. The sniper should also have a picture of the target on their camera.

Some might say that it's allot of trouble to go through for providing missions for snipers. So, the targets can also be used as capturable players.

Assign these roles to people that must move around and provide pictures for all the attendants to memorize.

I could also see snipers engaging static targets. ie it's reasonable to try and take out an antenna or radio with a fifty.
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Last edited by john; 12-08-2009 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:36 AM
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I think that this game scenario would be interesting cause it would put a whole new aspect to the game for snipers in general. this would give me and fellow snipers a good chance at getting some game time in and using our skills as needed.so great idea man im down for it.....
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:57 PM
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I do like the ideas you presented and like John said, I do think it needs to simplified. Maybe have more of a more of template to work off of that is straightforward, so it can be varied and applied to different senario situations.

Basically, this is what I see should be required of what was said (just my 2 cents), then just work off it to match Scenarios.

1. Snipers are on Separate Team
2. Allow Snipers To Set up Before the Game Starts
3. Limit their Loadout
...........A. Bolt Action Only
...........B. Small Side Arms
...........C. Ghillie Suits Required
4. Snipers have a Separate Radio Channel

What happens after they are killed depends on scenarios. Though I do think mDoug1911 made a good point. After they are shot they can be captured by a team or maybe be forced to join the capturing team. You could also give snipers medic abilities so maybe whoever the sniper is healed by after being shot will be the team that they will be attached to.

The idea of having snipers on separate team may not be the most realistic option to there, though I do think it's a great idea that could be A LOT of fun. Warcat you're totally right on the WANNABE thing. 90% of airsoft snipers are straight up noobs that have no idea what they're doing and rolling with some kind of stock spring gun with a scope and pair of blue jeans, claiming to be a Snip3r, which is why I think the ghillie suit should also be required, cause I think it might help ween out some theses people.
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:51 PM
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I think this is a very cool idea.. I don't agree with setting up before game. I don't agree with separate teams.. I think part of being a solid sniper is being able to move to your desired location and not be seen or not be put a bad position. That is part of being a sniper and part of the fun. I don't agree with full gillie however if your sniping in woodland situation.. USE active camo lol... I think having a side objective in every scenario is a big deal for the players that want to snipe or try to fulfill that role.


It wouldn't be harder on the event staff.. have 1 guy talk with the snipers of each team. Designate what they are looking for. Have that person or objective be around certain coords and that's it! Let the snipers do their jobs... let them play and do what ever they want where ever they want. But their main objective is to seek and destroy this or cover this to this point or find this bit of intel and bring it back to HQ to get more missions. Then let them radio in for target confirmation and orders to eliminate. That is a super cool idea. Warcat has hit this on the head. Yeah its fun for random sniper kid A to go out and shoot at people all day. But when he has a goal and he has to complete that, it adds a whole new aspect of being a sniper.

I am picking up sniping and I'm building a gillie suit. It will be a blast I'm down to help with this for any event
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  #19  
Old 12-21-2009, 12:07 AM
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Ive seen these ideas come and go. Sniping in airsoft is a myth and is never going to happen until you can hit 1000 fps and even then its still worthless. Its a cool idea but if you want a scenario to work use a recon element with aegs or something along those lines... Not sniper rifles
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:54 PM
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As someone who prefers to be a DMR/"sniper" this thread caught my eye. I looking to get back into the game and just bought ROMARO's TM SR-16. I have always worked as a DMR even when using AEGs, prefering to stay mobile, but hide and take out targets as they appear... so here are biggest probs I have with what WARCAT suggests:

A. ghille suit... No, not all snipers use them, only "lone wolf" teams and foward observers use them. So unless you are planning to sit in one spot all day, they are not really relevant... Squad DMR's do not use them, as it would set them apart making them primary targets.

B. Weapons... Bolt Action, only?.. how many people own a Ghille and a bolt action... not enough to make Bolts unilateral... especially since marine DMR's will be using a M21/M40, or a SR, or any other number of platforms...

Semi-automatic/BOLT - Yes
anything over a certain FPS - must be treated as a "DMR" in that there is a minimum engagement range... and no head shots, unless that is the only target.

C. RADIO - A seperate snipe channel is an excellent idea... but since most people act more as a DMR than a true sniper, DMR's should coordinate with their squads...

D. SPOTTER - up to player discretion... if a DMR is known to be an excellent "indian" don't burden them with someone who "might" not be as adept, BUT always try to have some form of support open to the DMR

E. AMMO - limit only if game is being played MIL-SPEC

Overall, I agree with what WARCAT was aiming for, just think he took it a little to far for general use... now if everyone was a sniper, it would be another matter
  #21  
Old 12-21-2009, 06:58 PM
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I think this was very thoroughly thought out. Although it is to complicated and I really dont like the idea of the snipers never stopping, unless it is an event where all the gametypes fall into a story line. For example I dont think this would work to well at an open play just because not all of the gametypes played are intertwined. And some players are irresponsible or simply just forgetful and will take their goggles off once a game is over and forget that snipers are still aloud to play amongst themselves. This could lead to the, not probable, but possible scenario of a stray bb hiting that person in the face or eyes. I do think that "pre-designated snipers" should be allowed onto the field first on objective based games so that they have a few minutes to get set up and possibly call in enemy possitions, which personnaly i think would give the game a little bit of a more realistic feel. I do think that snipers should be only allowed to use a bolt-action rifle(gas or spring) along with a side-arm and other gear like radio and water.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:34 PM
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i dont really have anything negative to say, becuase the sniping area of weapons is what i come from, and love.

Sniping in airsoft isnt a myth, because it's airsoft. anything is possible, and when you have an M16/G3 length weapon, with some work done to it, you'll hit stuff further away than say 'tom smith' yonder with his M4 cqb. Ive seen it.

I personally am burning this candle at bolth ends, with a project weapon on the bench, that should pan out to about 450, with full auto PERMANENTLY DISABLED.

Also, it just so happens, that the most accurate long range (2miles) sniper riffle, is the Cheytac Intervention, which was my fave BEFORE codmw2 botched it, is a BOLT ACTION.
Preferred? yes. Required for the game? no. Factory made DMR or hand built DMR, yes.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:16 AM
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It isn't a myth.. Its a matter of being attached and comfortable with your weapon of choice and being the F'N man at it. I know I've seen people shoot 200 - 220 ft with a rifle in airsoft and it be pretty on target. You have to lead and things of that nature and someone who understands that can do it enough and master that art then they will be effective... is it realistic for joe blowme to show up with his well l96 and murder a whole team during the day.. probably not. But JOE BlowYourDomeOff shows up with alot of experience in airsoft and he's been using this rifle for a long time and is used to it. He has the potential to be that guy that shoots you in your chin from 240 feet and you ponder," Who the F hit me?" for years to come.

that is possible.

Its an aquired taste and is very hard to master.
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  #24  
Old 12-22-2009, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brimsky View Post
It isn't a myth.. Its a matter of being attached and comfortable with your weapon of choice and being the F'N man at it. I know I've seen people shoot 200 - 220 ft with a rifle in airsoft and it be pretty on target. You have to lead and things of that nature and someone who understands that can do it enough and master that art then they will be effective... is it realistic for joe blowme to show up with his well l96 and murder a whole team during the day.. probably not. But JOE BlowYourDomeOff shows up with alot of experience in airsoft and he's been using this rifle for a long time and is used to it. He has the potential to be that guy that shoots you in your chin from 240 feet and you ponder," Who the F hit me?" for years to come.

that is possible.

Its an aquired taste and is very hard to master.
And at 240 feet, my M4 or my m14 will still be 100% effective, with an entire squad (my team) right behind me, one single sniper will be nothing more then a speed bump.

Airsoft is not played at a range where 1. Snipers are effective. 2. Sniper camo is effective. 3. Sniper tactics are effective. 4. Airsoft sniper guns are effective.

With that being said; a little bit of my "History"

I've had sniper rifles from CA m24's, to a One-of-a-kind Sun Projects M40a1, to an SVD, to a converted M16a4 PTW @ 550 FPS. It's not effective, end of story. There is not an argument you can present to me, or a situation that the newer semi-automatic weapons, for the same price, can do just as, if not more effectively then a bolt action. I've sniped at such events as the first Blind Fury, Irene III, Rising City, and many other events of all different calibers, sizes and locations. And for the most part, every event I've sniped in, I've used my side arm more then my actual rifle. And I've been in several situations were the FPS of my weapon was way too far for my range. (Too close.)


So, lets put your situation to the test. My squad, and I are advancing down the trail, typical 2 medics, 2 SAW's, and full comms. You take a shot, and either hit or miss one of us. Worse case scenario, we're down one. Your shot is done, we're alerted now. Your choice, either pack up and run, or reload for shot number #2. By this time, your ID'd and you now have a hail of BB's raining on you since there is not any sniper rifle that has a terribly further effective range then PTW's.

So, now your stuck in the middle of no where. Sans a medic and any other bit of a team, who ever you hit, gets treated by a medic and we move on. You have to spend the next 20-30 minutes walking back to spawn.


That's how it's played out. That, is my experience of playing Airsoft, with high end guns and at events since 2001.

The closest thing you can get to sniping in airsoft is being a DMR. And even anymore with the new hop ups, new rifles, etc. it's not worth it. My 400 FPS TM m14 will out range nearly any other gun on the field, with maybe the exception of a classic Asashi with an LRB system.
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  #25  
Old 12-22-2009, 01:02 PM
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i have to disagree with you here fox. i've seen people be very successful with sniper rifles.

They simply go where people don't expect them to and don't switch off rifles every other game. Can you snipe from a trail with a squad next to you? No. Sniping is does not lend itself to squad play.

If you are in a team i suggest picking up the DM.

I would ask someone who has been successful at it. invulnerable or kadafees brother trigger.
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