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Old 05-18-2012, 07:01 PM
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KWA LM4 - First look and thoughts

This is my 3rd airsoft rifle. My first was a earlier generation KWA M4A1, second was a PTW M4A1 MAX, and now this wonder KWA LM4 PTR. I also own a KWA 1911 PTP. That being said, this is my first jump into the world of GBBRs. The only GBB experience I have is from my PTP which I only toy with every now and then. Now, on to the good stuff.

Pretty basic if you guys have ever owned a KWA product. Comes with one mag, a barrel plug, jamming rod, manual + warranty info, and a tube style speed loader.





The magazine is a lighter grey than the rest of the gun. I think it looks pretty nice. The quality is superb, and is comparable to the feel (including weight) of a Systema PTW mag. The top inch of the mag is polymer to better protect from damage. It holds 40 rounds and they're double stacked. Gas capacity is easily 2 mags per fill from my testing. I haven't had any problems with cool down either.

My mag has no problems with leaking, but there is a service bulletin being put out because some of the release valves have been found to be loose. Some people have been affected by this. It is easily fixable if you have the proper tool, otherwise you'll probably have to send it in.

Loading the magazine in the field may be somewhat trivial. KWA has a speed loader attachment (or something like that - not included) to make it quick and simple, but otherwise you're probably going to have to use the plunger loader. I tried using a regular pistol-mag style loader, and BBs would not go in easily enough for me to keep trying. I've found it's quickest to use my speed loader to load the tube with BBs (holds 30) and then plunge them in. It's very quick and painless to do so, then just add a few more in and get to 38-40 BBs without a problem.



















The exterior is great. Definitely a huge improvement over the older KWA M4 I used. My clone Magpul CTR stock fits, but is considerably more wobbly than the OEM stock (which doesn't wobble at all).

ASGI chrono'd the gun at 400 which is pretty much right on the money for what KWA says it shoots. I can't say what the FPS is with propane as I don't have a chrono myself.

The manual is accurate in saying that it shoots to 175 feet effectively (.25g BBs). It may shoot farther, but at this distance the groupings are fairly large. Optics will help in shot placement which I would recommend since you only have 40 rounds per mag.

Firing the gun feels awesome. The recoil is strong, especially when you open up on full auto. It sounds intimidating as well. The operation of the weapon is true to real life. If the hammer isn't cocked, you can't go to safe. You have to chamber the first round if the barrel is clear (be it pulling on the charging handle or releasing the bolt forward). When the gun is empty, the bolt locks back. Speaking of that, releasing the bolt feels and sounds very satisfying. The forward assist functions, and you can function check the weapon just like a real M4 (not sure if all GBBRs do that or not).

As far as maintenance goes, it's pretty straight forward. Take the gun apart, clean off the bolt carrier group, inside of the receiver, and magwell. You should oil the hammer where the roller is, and the cylinder (displays locations in manual). It's also recommended to oil the charging and release valves every once and awhile on the mags. Considering that I'm using propane, I'll probably clean it after every game. Just from this bit of use, it was fairly dirty.

The gun is mil-spec all around and should accept most RS parts. The KWA forum is getting a compatibility thread going on, so check there if you're curious about things at times.











That's most of what I've got for now. If you have any questions, let me know.
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:29 PM
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I am sooo god damn jelly haha
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:31 PM
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Is the FCG steel?


Also, only two mags per fill? I am disappoint.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian View Post
Is the FCG steel?


Also, only two mags per fill? I am disappoint.
I believe so, yes. And two mags per fill seems pretty great to me. I was pleasantly surprised, and so was everyone else on the KWA forums.

I'll probably take a video of it firing so you guys can see it.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:35 AM
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Great review, Nitemare,, props.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:36 AM
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So far, the only problem appears to be with the hop-up adjustment teeth. They are plastic and are prone to breaking. In fact, 4 of my teeth CAME broken, so I'm trying to get it replaced by KWA. In a video review, a guy broke almost all his teeth right off the bat trying to adjust it.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:46 PM
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^ yikes don't like that but if it's wide spread KWA will be fixing it very soon
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:11 AM
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update on that video? XD
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:03 PM
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What would you like to see? Not much to show that hasn't already been shown by others on YouTube.
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:55 PM
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How does the recoil spring's strength compare to that of a G&P WOC or WE?
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:53 PM
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I can't say as I've never fired them. I know that you can buy an aftermarket kit to up the recoil (at the cost of durability), but from what other people on the KWA forums have said the recoil is awesome as-is. I for one love it, especially on full auto.

I'll be posting some more pictures here within a few days as my optics and pistol grip come in.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:19 PM
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I'm looking into the WE ak74un. It'll be my first GBBR. I really like the full travel bolt design.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:26 PM
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Awesome review Nitemare. Long time lurker here for all the PTW knowledge posted. Nite, not trying to thread jack but I performed a full auto mag dump to get reliability of LM4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=WanAAcNt5eQ

No issues that I experienced at all during a quick day of gaming. Oh and I was sure to pickup a valve key from local shop and tightened all my valves prior to use. Through that I found a mag which had a completely stripped thread on the mag itself so check your stuff. Again awesome review Nitemare..
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:28 PM
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Thanks!

Where did you get that valve key at and any specifics on it? I have some mags on the way from ASGI and want to be able to fix them if they do leak. So far the one with my gun is solid.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:34 PM
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Going by some video's I have seen, the recoil looks to be the same as a WOC. KWA has a great design and I really want to get one. I have a WOC and sunk alot of money into it. With how much I have spent, I couldve bought 2 KWA's. But before I buy one, I need to test one out to see if its worth the investment. Not saying it isnt, Im more worried about colder weather issues for the mags. But great review!
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:29 PM
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Wouldn't you experience cold weather issues with any GBB due to the nature of gas?
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:59 PM
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Nitemare, yes. Some guns that have better seals and use certain gases over others may be more effective in winter than others, but the cold affects the pressure of the gas inside all weapons which typically causes you to use more per shot, and get less power out of each shot. It is usually best just to not use gas guns in the cold.

As for your comment of getting two mags out of a single charge of gas, that is also disappointing and surprising to me. My KWA MP7 holds 40 rounds per magazine, and in this weather, I can get three full mags through a single proper charge of gas. I was expecting the LM4s to be able to do the same, and I thought I had read a comment somewhere from KWA that three full mags was what they were aiming for. Of course, it might depend on the temperature out when you were shooting, and if you reused the same mag without a cool down. It is a lot easier for me to get three full magazines out of one gas charge if I give a magazine cool down time before I use it again. That is easy for me to do since I have six.

Last edited by Wrath the Furious; 05-23-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitemare View Post
Wouldn't you experience cold weather issues with any GBB due to the nature of gas?
Oh yes, I forgot I didnt mention co2 mags in that. If KWA comes out with co2 mags for their LM4, I will say good bye WOC and hello LM4!
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:21 PM
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Ordered mine through ASGI with 3 mags, snagging an ATP and the front of my RRV with pouches through the week along with maybe a 4x ACOG or an aimpoint and some oakley SIs.... THANK U GRADUATION XD

Last edited by Austucker; 05-27-2012 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath the Furious View Post
Nitemare, yes. Some guns that have better seals and use certain gases over others may be more effective in winter than others, but the cold affects the pressure of the gas inside all weapons which typically causes you to use more per shot, and get less power out of each shot. It is usually best just to not use gas guns in the cold.

As for your comment of getting two mags out of a single charge of gas, that is also disappointing and surprising to me. My KWA MP7 holds 40 rounds per magazine, and in this weather, I can get three full mags through a single proper charge of gas. I was expecting the LM4s to be able to do the same, and I thought I had read a comment somewhere from KWA that three full mags was what they were aiming for. Of course, it might depend on the temperature out when you were shooting, and if you reused the same mag without a cool down. It is a lot easier for me to get three full magazines out of one gas charge if I give a magazine cool down time before I use it again. That is easy for me to do since I have six.
I'm assuming that is because the LM4 requires more force to cycle.

Also, someone on the KWA forums reported what I'd consider major failures. After roughly 5,000 rounds, his bolt fails to lock back by itself. Him and someone else also experienced a major mis-feed resulting in broken and jammed bits of BBs in the barrel entry point. The mag feed areas are also being reported to receive damage from the bolt after a normal amount of usage (probably due to the steel construction and poor design execution).

As of now, I'm having some problems with the cylinder/piston locking back all the way every time on the last shot. While this in no way affects performance, it is annoying. After some more use for break-in, it is supposed to fix itself according to other users and KWA.

Last edited by Nitemare; 05-27-2012 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitemare View Post
As of now, I'm having some problems with the cylinder/piston locking back all the way every time on the last shot. While this in no way affects performance, it is annoying. After some more use for break-in, it is supposed to fix itself according to other users and KWA.
You mean bolt carrier group? Assuming so, post some pics of the bolt catch and the front, underside of the carrier and face of the carrier.
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:45 PM
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I was simply going off what the manual states the parts were. Here's a picture of what it was doing last time I fired it:



From the looks of it, the plastic here is a bit rough and seems to be getting caught on something:





Anyway, I just got my grip installed (took a little trimming down of the tail due to the sling plate being in the way) along with my optics. I'm not at all pleased with the quality of the mount for the magnifier, but that's what I get for going cheap. I'll probably have to buy a separate mount just to get it to center with the red dot. Rest of my mags arrive tomorrow, will update if they leak or anything like that soon.

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Old 05-30-2012, 05:34 AM
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I like the idea of getting a GBBR, and this gun is sexy looking. I think I wanna wait for a decent AK74 to come out from KWA.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:36 AM
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Someone was asking about the recoil. I've shot WE GBBR's, KA GBBR's and GHB GBBR'S (could have that name wrong) and so far the KWA has the most recoil. I've only had a chance to mess around with one in a shop, so I can't comment on reliability, but I am very impressed with the gun.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:41 AM
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Just got my other 3 mags in. One appears to have a slight leak, but we'll see if it corrects itself. Otherwise, I'm going to have to tighten the release valve somehow (don't have the key to do it myself -- not sure if there's any other way).

As far as my optics go, the red dot seems to hold zero fairly well with the recoil. The magnifier is useless on its current mount (shakes everywhere, can't see a thing) so I ordered a $50 Primary Arms swing mount. I went through rapid semi and full auto with 4 mags. The cool down effect is possibly only slightly seen with the last 8 BBs or so. I'm not entirely sure because I didn't have the mags 100% full of gas, but it clearly does a much better job of handling it than other GBBRs.

Here's a video of ASGI stress testing the cool down effect compared to other GBBRs. Also, the LM4 is capable of firing sideways unlike other GBBRs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvduA...ature=youtu.be
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