Airsoft Ohio Forums  
  #1  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:07 PM
Mr. Woodcock Mr. Woodcock is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Mr. Woodcock is a Private
iTrader: (0)
How accurate are the field chronographs?

This is going to be a bit of a long post so i apologize in advance..
Ok so a little back story before i get to my point... Last year i went out and bought a Echo 1 AK47 C.P.W ( Contractors Personal Weapon.) As is normal the fps on it was around 430 to 440 stock... I had planned to go to the big zombie event last year ( which i couldn't make due to my wife being eight months pregnant and not feeling good.) and since the field required a limit of 400 fps or under i decided to take it to the guys up at AirsoftSmith and have them lower the fps. So i got the gun back and like i stated above i didn't get a chance to go to the event... So there the gun sat for about six months or so and not a single shot sent through it since it had been worked on. Last week i went to Operation Snake Pit in Springfield, and much to my disappointment when we chroned the gun at the field it said it was STILL shooting 440 fps... so i had to run that whole day with it on semi auto..

So over this last week i took the gun up to AirsoftSmith and told them about my problem, and they asked if they could test out the fps on it, since they have a far superior chronograph than anything out at the field. Turns out the gun was shooting 375 fps... So i guess my question is can those chronos they use at the field really be off by that much, and when i attend another event there am i still going to have to fire semi auto only because their chronos say it shoots way more than it actually does? If anyone has any insight into this it would be much appreciated.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mist View Post
Invest in the development of a BB that when it hits you, You go into a deep sleep for 5 minutes. And when you wake up, Your at your regen

Might be a problem with Rape.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:15 PM
Kitten's Avatar
Kitten Kitten is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Erlanger, KY
Posts: 433
Blog Entries: 1
Kitten is a Private
iTrader: (8)
Did they use a paintball chrono or an airsoft chrono? There are two different types. Generally the paintball ones are less accurate.
__________________
Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

From a place you do not see comes a sound you will not hear.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:19 PM
zing's Avatar
zing zing is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 262
zing is a Private
iTrader: (19)
I have had the same question as well. I know bb weights effect the FPS, but i have also seen a chronograph that has a setting for .20 and .25's.

but it seems like every time I use the big red paintball chronograph, I get the same FPS so that's what I go by.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:21 PM
HardLock's Avatar
HardLock HardLock is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Westchester, OH.
Posts: 456
HardLock is a Private First Class
Send a message via AIM to HardLock
iTrader: (0)
Back when I used to help Blade organize events at Springfield, I asked this very question. To get an answer, I took all the field chronos we had available and did a comparison using the same gun and BB's. Out of the 5 chronos I tested, they were all within 10fps of each other. The models tested were:

A "real steel" CED Millennium Chrono w/ infrared illumination
a older Guarder chrono circa 2002
a newer Guarder chrono circa 2008
a Madbull chrono
and one other that I can't remember name of.

With that being said, I have seen at least a 25-30fps difference when using a paintball "red radar" chrono compared to a handheld airsoft chrono. The radar chronos measure the BB velocity at some unknown point downrange, whereas the airsoft chrono's measure fps AT the muzzle (where it should be).

I've been to alot of games all over the country and there's one thing you have to remember; Their field, their chrono, their rules. Not much you can do about it except bring a spare gun.
__________________
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e99/StrikersHardlock/Airsoft/TF513/Resourceid_2.jpg

Last edited by HardLock; 04-13-2012 at 09:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:50 AM
mac50's Avatar
mac50 mac50 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,228
mac50 is a Private
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardLock View Post

I've been to alot of games all over the country and there's one thing you have to remember; Their field, their chrono, their rules. Not much you can do about it except bring a spare gun.
I think Hardlock summed this up pretty good. One other thing to remember. Even with 2 of the same model chrono's, same gun and bb's, you could still get different results.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:15 PM
Chief's Avatar
Chief Chief is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 244
Blog Entries: 1
Chief is a Private
iTrader: (0)
I was running chrono that day and was awful surprised when your AK popped a 430 on the chrono. That is why I had you shoot like 6-7 times to verify I didnt just get an anomolie.
I cant answer your question on how accurate they are. Obviously in Springfields case this would be a question to be asked of Blade. What I do know is that out of all his chronos they all measure relativly the same. Meaning I will get the same numbers on all chronos from the same gun with same weight BB's.

Does this mean they are accurate? No, But doesnt mean they are not either. But What I will say is that I have enough faith in the instruments to say that you was defenitaly shooting 30 FPS over what we allow meaning you was shooting hotter then everyone else.

One thing that makes me think they are accurate is that I usually state what the gun is shooting when I chrono someone. Very rarely do I get someone that says the numbers dont make sense. Most the time they are right where the person says they are supposed to be.

I know none of this answers your question or really helps you but I thought I would inject some insight into my experience with using Blades Chronos and what happened that day.

Also, anytime I get someone shooting over the limit I dont make the call, I refer them to Blade and he makes the call. His event, His rules, His decision.

I do hope you are able to figure out the issues with the gun.
__________________
"Your Muckin with a G here Pal!!!" Jim Malone (Untouchables).

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-14-2012, 05:15 PM
Vector's Avatar
Vector Vector is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 147
Vector is a Private
iTrader: (0)
My KWA SR12 chronos at 350 on the springfield chrono. Yet when I got the gun it shot over 390 at AirsoftSMITH. Maybe a spring problem? Who knows.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-14-2012, 06:51 PM
Rifleman628 Rifleman628 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 3
Rifleman628 is a Private
iTrader: (0)
I had a similar experience at BF8. At Cold Steel II I cracked the gb shell in my 1st generation KWA m16 and had it replaced with a new 2gx shell by AirsoftSmith just before last summer. Additionally, I asked them to get it under 400fps. I was disappointed when I took it to the chrono and it fired 448-450 three times and had to use my back up echo 1 m4. This made me wonder if there was something wrong with the chronos, but I don't know if it would be off by 50fps.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:55 PM
absorbedsponge absorbedsponge is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toledo - Cleveland
Posts: 16
absorbedsponge is a Private
Send a message via AIM to absorbedsponge
iTrader: (1)
I will say I have had experience with a malfunctioning chronograph. At (un-named field) one day my ca ar-15 clocked extremely low on the chronograph (280fps). I knew that was not right, I went got my upgraded L96 just to check the chronograph somehow it read at 385 fps. I threw that back in the trunk and ran with my low fps ca ar-15. Later that day I asked a organizer to re-chronograph my L96. On a paintball chronograph it read 550fps, more of what I expected. I'm glad I didn't use it that day, would have been a severe safety hazard.

But that brings up the question, Isn't it a safety hazard to have such a variation in chronograph readings. Especially when dealing with bolt actions or strict fields with max fps limitations (due to insurance). I mean that day people could have been really really hot with a fully automatic gun. I don't know about you but I really don't want to get sprayed in the face by a 550fps gun in full auto from 35 ft. Couldn't that have caused an insurance issue if someone did get hurt?

Can't we generate a standard chronograph test that is universal. I know that is pretty impossible but maybe it isn't. Impact measuring devices could probably be used to measure the amount of force that a bb has very accurately and precisely. Maybe they aren't that accurate/precise but theres got to be other ways of measuring the force/velocity of a bb universally. I mean if there could be some cheap universal way of approximating 400fps I think it would be a great way of chronographing at fields. I thought of the poor mans chrono but that isn't accurate enough plus the changes in cans would provide different results and multiple testing of 100+ people it would be inefficient.

Is there some other good way of setting a standard for chronographing other than using chronographs that can differ in brands by 30fps?
__________________
Information is equivalent to time and money. Meaning information = money ^2, lose your source lose both.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-14-2012, 08:26 PM
Blade's Avatar
Blade Blade is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Monroe, OH
Posts: 5,668
Blade is a CorporalBlade is a CorporalBlade is a Corporal
Send a message via AIM to Blade Send a message via Skype™ to Blade
iTrader: (3)
The problem with chrono is depending on the indoor/outdoor environment, the bb color, the humidity, the batteries, the way people are shooting, you will always get variances between the chrono.

When the weather is very cold, the batteries are weak or the sun reflections get in the way, your chrono will usually don't work at all or have a VERY low fps reading. You simply don't lose 20-30fps just because of the weather.

As a general rule of thumbs, If you are using springs bigger than M110 (110*3.3), you should be below 400fps. If you use M120 (120 *3.3), you will be VERY borderline and that is without taking account of the internal parts of a gun. Most A&K and Echo1 guns chrono above 420fps out of the box with 0.20g.

when you get your gun checked or downgraded, make sure to ask the gunsmith which spring was put into the gun.

In regards to Springfield chronos, I use the PTW M110 and some Tokyo Marui guns with M110 springs and they are both around 365fps...which is about what the chrono should give. From there, it is simply impossible for me to start trying to compare my own reading with other chrono unless such other chronos can be brought to the field. Now if you have a doubt about the reading I give you, simply ask for a double test and I will be happy to get a second chrono turned on for you.

A trick for those dealing with retailers and non-personal chrono; Get it checked on 2 different chrono or retailer/field.
__________________
No balls, no glory.



Awesome videos;
http://www.youtube.com/teamstrikersairsoft
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-15-2012, 08:48 AM
Mr. Woodcock Mr. Woodcock is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Mr. Woodcock is a Private
iTrader: (0)
Thanks for all the feedback guys really appreciate it.... Yesterday i decided to chrono the gun myself with a chrono i bought earlier last year.... i made sure to pit a fresh battery in it before hand and the same bbs i had leftover from the OP... The gun was shpoting 375 to 380 but never once on my chrono did it get over 400.... Now im not sure but like i stated the gun hadnt been fired prior to the OP since it got worked on last year. Is it possible the spring hadnt been broken in fully?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mist View Post
Invest in the development of a BB that when it hits you, You go into a deep sleep for 5 minutes. And when you wake up, Your at your regen

Might be a problem with Rape.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:09 AM
X-Ray's Avatar
X-Ray X-Ray is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 31
X-Ray is a Private
iTrader: (0)
That is a very high possibility. Usually springs will shoot hot until they settle down at their regular level. (in this case 375 for you)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:17 AM
Blade's Avatar
Blade Blade is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Monroe, OH
Posts: 5,668
Blade is a CorporalBlade is a CorporalBlade is a Corporal
Send a message via AIM to Blade Send a message via Skype™ to Blade
iTrader: (3)
If spring have to be "broken" from 430 to 400, that specific spring brand has something wrong. Otherwise, why would they advertise a M110, M120 or M130 if it is not even the FPS you will get?!?!
__________________
No balls, no glory.



Awesome videos;
http://www.youtube.com/teamstrikersairsoft
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:16 AM
D-Boy's Avatar
D-Boy D-Boy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 786
D-Boy is a Private
Send a message via AIM to D-Boy
iTrader: (1)
Blade is right one this. Honestly I know you just want a gun to play with and are disappointed that the labor you paid for was ineffective. I was in the same place years ago. I was very keen on getting a 390 fps gun and that meant the chance I could not use it. The more I played I realized that FPS means nothing and it is about the consistency of the hopup for range and accuracy. So instead of worrying, I shoot for a 370 fps as a High point so I have that extra cushion in my pocket for extreme circumstances like a dying battery in a Chrono or sunlight, temp, humi etc.
__________________
We consider this our duty- to defend humanity against the scourge of intolerance, violence, and fanaticism. Ahmed Shah Massoud

Capitalism: God's way of determining who is smart and who is poor. Ron Swanson
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-15-2012, 01:04 PM
Spectre's Avatar
Spectre Spectre is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: A land of superior apathy, also known as Cincinnati
Posts: 1,438
Blog Entries: 1
Spectre is a Private First Class
iTrader: (11)
Just as an FYI, after working on numerous Cyma/Echo 1 AK's that chrono in the 430-450 range, I have this to say:

They have great compression. If you want to drop them below 400, you typically have to go with either a Madbull/SHS equivalent M90 or M100. (Please remember that different labels of "Mxxx" mean different tensions and lengths for different spring manufacturers. A Systema is much different than an SHS.) Watch your hopup as well, It really can mean the difference between 330FPS and 390FPS. I've seen it happen numerous times.

With that said, I mainly use Xortech and Madbull chronos. They typically fall within 5-8FPS of each other. I don't believe battery life has anything to do with measurements, as most chronos have a low power cut-off. I've used paintball chrono's in the past, and they do give a large variance in readings. This is due to the fact that they measure via radar some distance away from the actual chrono. Paintballs maintain their momentum well for a good distance, but BB's do not. Higher FPS guns will be more accurate since they will have that much more punch, but anything in the 0-450 range will be susceptible to false readings. Light and weather can certainly effect readings of optical sensor chrono's. In your case OP, I doubt that this was your issue, as these differences in readings are typically only 5-15 FPS. Next time however, do request that the tech chrono's your gun before it leaves service. That way you will be extra sure.
__________________
Smile Back

Last edited by Spectre; 04-15-2012 at 01:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-15-2012, 01:11 PM
Mr. Woodcock Mr. Woodcock is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 37
Mr. Woodcock is a Private
iTrader: (0)
Well after chroning the gun again today (just to be sure that yesterday wasnt a fluke) the highest fps i got on my chronograph was 392. but mostly it was consistently in the 370 to 380 range. I would like to state that i am in no way saying that the chronos at the field are inaccurate i just didnt know why it would say that.... just as a note my chronograph is a Xcortech model x3200. not that that has to do with anything... the only thing i can do is wait till the next Event and see what it says then.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mist View Post
Invest in the development of a BB that when it hits you, You go into a deep sleep for 5 minutes. And when you wake up, Your at your regen

Might be a problem with Rape.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fallen Warriors Field Open play 01-15-12 Rygar Upcoming Airsoft Events 33 01-15-2012 07:30 AM
>PLACE TO PLAY< look!! please. park233 General Discussion 4 09-02-2010 10:38 AM
New Castle Field Review airsoft_junkee Past Event Comments 10 07-13-2010 11:58 PM
The NEW Ruins Airsoft Field Coming Soon!!! TheMechanic Places to Play 43 09-14-2009 04:50 PM
Mg36: Attention Field Owners Disposable Soldier Airsoft Advancement and Scenario Discussion 2 03-12-2008 01:21 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03 AM.


Airsoft Guns, Tactical Gear, Military Gear, Ohio Airsoft Retailer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2005 - 2009 Airsoft Ohio