What If Someone Had a CCW?
Posted 12-15-2010 at 08:26 PM by M0nk3y
Browsing the internet. I came across this story; I'm pretty sure most people would of heard it already:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/14/...ex.html?hpt=T1
http://www.cbs12.com/news/city-47300...-shooting.html
It's about a guy who stormed into a School Board meeting, and held people at hostage...and ended up shooting.
Thankfully, he missed. A Security Guard shot and wounded the suspect, and then he committed suicide with his own gun.
It really puts people in perspective as: What would you do?
I've saw the graphic video, but I won't post it here. It showed a wider angle of the room, every council member was basically frozen in their seat, helpless from an Ex-Convict who wanted to take revenge, it seems.
However, what if someone had a CCW? Would this end differently? If this guy would of hit innocent people, would a CCW prevent people from being killed?
It can be taken both ways. Pros and Cons.
You go to argue a point, then you see something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_...layer_embedded
So, in reality do you think it could of helped? I think with proper training, a CCW could of ended this in a VERY different way. I think this just strengthens the point that this can really happen, and anyone who does consider getting a CCW (like me) go through extensive training.
Thoughts/Opinions?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/14/...ex.html?hpt=T1
http://www.cbs12.com/news/city-47300...-shooting.html
It's about a guy who stormed into a School Board meeting, and held people at hostage...and ended up shooting.
Thankfully, he missed. A Security Guard shot and wounded the suspect, and then he committed suicide with his own gun.
It really puts people in perspective as: What would you do?
I've saw the graphic video, but I won't post it here. It showed a wider angle of the room, every council member was basically frozen in their seat, helpless from an Ex-Convict who wanted to take revenge, it seems.
However, what if someone had a CCW? Would this end differently? If this guy would of hit innocent people, would a CCW prevent people from being killed?
It can be taken both ways. Pros and Cons.
You go to argue a point, then you see something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_...layer_embedded
So, in reality do you think it could of helped? I think with proper training, a CCW could of ended this in a VERY different way. I think this just strengthens the point that this can really happen, and anyone who does consider getting a CCW (like me) go through extensive training.
Thoughts/Opinions?
Total Comments 42
Comments
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My opinion is that he's a bad shot.Posted 12-18-2010 at 07:36 PM by Red 
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Are you talking about CCW with institutional figures such as teachers and administrators at all levels of education or simply students at higher learning? Because to me these are two totally different subjects.
Posted 12-18-2010 at 07:53 PM by Spectre
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Regardless if someone had CCW or not. I'm not sure how Florida is, but I know in the state of Ohio, you can not even have a handgun in this situation. Since schools are "gun free zones".
You'd have to fight that, first.
Could it have stopped the scenario faster? Perhaps. We'll never know and we can speculate a lot. However, if the suspect knew that people could possibly be armed and attending the meeting...would he have had doubt in his course of action and perhaps not carried out? Who knows.Posted 12-18-2010 at 09:18 PM by Spetsnaz
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I'm kind of on the side of there should be people with CCW's, but if you're going to be that kid or teacher at school, that you should have INTENSIVE and I mean INTENSIVE training... I go to a school that's shrouded in a cloud of "well my mommy will sue you" or "my daddy has more money than your daddy". A lot of these kids have no conception of reality, or have ever even seen a dead person, Me coming from a 3rd world country, I scoff at them, they think that if you put a gun in their hands, they'll be gods.I do not believe that an average student should be able to have one, and once they did, rubber bullets would be number one, or a VERY small caliber.
Posted 12-18-2010 at 09:23 PM by Colombian
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Open carry.
Posted 12-18-2010 at 09:51 PM by Naga
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Naga, that made me think of the scrubs episode where JD had a though of the hospital as a horse hospital and everone was walking around with rifles.
Posted 12-18-2010 at 09:53 PM by Rebel
Updated 12-18-2010 at 10:05 PM by Rebel -
would much rather explain the reason why i had it then EVER be a statistic period ....you say im stupid for this statement? then ask ANYONE on the recving end of that kinda violence and ask em would you ....could you?...should you ? my responce absolutely i would have shot him, legal or not,not a person on the reciving end of being rescued would argue that one armed trained man didnt or wouldn't count.
We could what if this to death but one person ...one trained person can absolutely make all the difference, from a morge full of innocents or one a$$hole that is a waste of breath anyway, also i will never period ever advocate,or preach blatant violence but in that case if its me or a long dirt nap, ill take my chances with the coldest of blood i can bring to bear
my2 centsPosted 12-18-2010 at 10:30 PM by Ozzsclan
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Like it was stated before, even if you had a CCW then you are not permitted to carry in school zones or most other 'Offical' zones like courthouses, municipal buildings, things of that nature. I have my CCW but I dont carry it for the fact of a reaction sort of thing, I carry it with the thinking that if there was a time to use it I could. Like the shooting video that was a 'fairly' slow paced thing compared to the NBC video demos. In the NBC demos then you dont have any where near the reaction time needed to pull your weapon. When I took my CCW class then I was taught the 20 ft rule, If the threat is within 20 ft then you dont have the reaction time to pull your weapon and make an accurate shot. We were taught that if the treat was holding a knife then you put space in between your self and the threat to broaden that space and giving yourself time to pull your weapon. If the treat had a gun then if you tryed to pull your weapon then you were more likly to make yourself a bigger target. It simply boils down to if you have the tactical advantage, but under stressful times then none of us know what we will actually do unless your in that situation.
Posted 12-19-2010 at 12:03 AM by Myth
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"We could what if this to death but one person"
Excuse me, what?
Also, Han shot first.Posted 12-19-2010 at 12:30 AM by Duo Chan
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Naga,
Open Carry FTW!!! I openen carry everytime I go off post when I live in Colorado. I love it. It is a bit tougher to do in Ohio.
Ozzsclan im with you on this one.
This is a perfect example of why "free criminal zones" are such a crock of ****. Think about it. If I am a bad guy and want to do some crooked stuff. Where is the perfect place to do it? In a "gun free zone". Because I know that every law abiding citizen in that area will not have a firearm to stop me with.
Now let me mention that I am Very confident in my pistol shooting abilities.
Yes, if I was carrying during the meeting and this went down, I would have taken the first oppertunity I had to end it. I am not going to stand by and wait until he tries to wound or kill someone to act.
We all know how this played out. So im sure alot of people are saying, "he didnt hurt anyone, security showed up, blah blah blah. But during the situation, you will never know what is going to happen. You have to make a descision that will in all likleyhood get someone killed. That is the responsibility that you take on when you carry. And if you are not prepared to make that descion, mabye you need to rethink why you are/if you should carrying.
Now yes, if I drew my weapon and engaged that man there is the chance of a shootout. But Hear me when I say this. I will take a shootout over a slaughter anyday and everyday.
On a side note IDAP and IPSC shooting is a great way to train!Posted 12-19-2010 at 08:28 AM by Specter357(2nd)
Updated 12-19-2010 at 08:30 AM by Specter357(2nd) (grammer) -
Only armed security and police can carry a firearm on school grounds.
Posted 12-19-2010 at 11:30 AM by Dougrich
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If the guy was upset enough to charge into this situation and take hostages, I don't think any of the hostages being armed would have stopped this.
Where does your right to carry infringe upon my right to have a gun-free area for my children to be safe?Posted 12-19-2010 at 12:41 PM by Texx
Updated 12-19-2010 at 12:43 PM by Texx -
Gun free zones are a joke. It only prohibits law abiding citizens from carrying in those areas.
No criminal is going to see that sign and think "Darn, foiled again!"
Reminds me of this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8Posted 12-19-2010 at 01:16 PM by Spetsnaz
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So when the teacher who's carrying finally goes postal and shoots the kids who are screwing around in the back of the class, is that okay since he's trained (and won't miss like this idiot)?
Posted 12-19-2010 at 01:26 PM by Karma
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I ain't go nowhere without packin' heat. I got my Battlerifle on lockdown with my SPNKR Rocket launcher
Posted 12-19-2010 at 01:29 PM by Son of Liberty
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Would a sign stating you're not allowed to carry a gun prevent that from happening, Karma?
Posted 12-19-2010 at 01:36 PM by Spetsnaz
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Karma, I think of the teacher has a mentality of hurting their children w/or w/out a gun...he/she shouldn't have a job to begin with.
I know with my school, our School Board was off of "school" grounds. I don't know if the school board still counts as school grounds, but personally I think it's stupid. Because this situation and just like columbine shooting, it doesn't prevent people from doing harm from carrying guns onto these premises.
Spetz, the security guard was the person who did end up shooting the suspect. Fortunate enough, he was outside of the room when this all occurred and was able to act within a reasonable time when this happened. But with someone with a good shot, they all could of been dead/injured by thenPosted 12-19-2010 at 02:40 PM by M0nk3y
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In theory, yes, it could help. However, imagine this: Everyone panics, and bullets start flying. I think that in this case, more than one person would've gotten injured. While it's true that these signs prevent law abiding citizens from carrying guns in, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily going to keep every good guy from packing. There's a big difference between being a good guy, and a law abiding citizen.
Posted 12-19-2010 at 04:13 PM by vietec
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As far as teachers having firearms, I don't think that would ever happen on any wide scale. Firstly, the vast majority of teachers don't want to carry firearms (I mean they're bleeding-heart Liberals for one), and those that do choose to carry a gun would probably be few and far between. It also raises the issue of an unstable student attacking the teacher, taking the gun, shooting the teach and others, and you can see where that is going. I'd rather keep guns completely out of the classroom, period.
Now as to whether or not CCW's are allowed on school property, well, I guess that's one for the state to decide. EVERYONE knows that a sign or law stating that firearms are not permitted on school property isn't going to keep anyone from committing a firearms related crime on said school property. It is also true that the majority of people who've gone through the CCW program are going to be law abiding citizens too.
In the case of this man who went into the school board meeting only to attempt to kill the school board members, I think any law abiding citizen would have had no problem in shooting or killing this man before he had the chance to harm anyone else. The law does state that you must warn the person prior to taking deadly force against them, so if you're telling the guy to drop it, you'd better be in a good position to defend yourself or others.
I think CCW's should be allowed pretty much anywhere.Posted 12-19-2010 at 04:22 PM by Darkstar
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Darkstar - you are giving out false information. There is no law that states you must warn anyone. If you believe you or someone else is at risk of serious bodily harm or death (and neither you or this other person is an agressor in this case) you may use lethal force.
It says nothing about warning anyone, and I would not give the bad guy a chance to take a shot at me if he's waving a gun at people.Posted 12-19-2010 at 05:44 PM by Spetsnaz
