Dec 28 "Keep You Warm" aka "What a Day"

[monkey_slap]

well, i have to say, what an interesting day. the MOUT was all fun and games, even though we did get caught up in a fiasco during "raise the flag".

but then the CQB house, and oh its miseries...

started off just fine. teams were good, sportsmanship was fine, everything was dandy. until all of a sudden someone informed the police that there were armed men in an old house running around. now before i explain what happened let me elaborate what we knew.

the CQB house was previously owned by John Cottrell, uncle of Cottrelli. we were personally told that we had permission to play on the house. the house was going to be bought by the airport so they could expand. we knew that the house was going to be purchased because Cottrelli's uncle had moved out and the house was in the process of being torn down. one and a half years ago the reduction of the house was called off since there was one person who would not sell to the airport and thus, they couldn't expand. so we began to play. now, where we were wrong...

Cottrelli's uncle did not still have the property. it was in fact property of the dayton airport. there were no private property or tresspassing signs at all, so we were not suspicious. plus, we had hosted numerous other games there without any question from anyone.

well, the police went through their routine of aim at us until we were all on the ground. i was the first to be aimed at and i was so confused that my head was swelling. after everyone had been searched we were gathered and talked to. i voiced my knowledge as did cottrelli to the policemen so that they knew we were not trying to be a bunch of hoodlums. we wanted to bring people together to play a fun game. UNDER NO CONDITION DID WE SUSPECT THAT WE WERE TRESPASSING.

after it was all cleared up i got the name and number of someone to talk to for future games to be hosted there. i do not want a bad rap to be spread about cottrelli and i since we were under assumed knowledge and we encourage everyone to still attend whatever games we will hold in the future.

we have realized our mistakes and before any other game is to go on, the local law enforcement and local residents will be informed. we will also obtain the written consent from the actual owner of the CQB house. this was all a terrible mistake and i am glad no one was hurt or injured. i do accept that this was my fault and i promise you that games will only get better in the future, so dont count us out as bad organizers!

and thank you to everyone who attended. before the fiasco i had a great time playing. everyone (even the first timers) was honest, fair, and safe. thanks to all!

[Nate The Great]

Wow, sounds crazy!

Regular Cops came? I would think it would be SWAT or someone... It must have been scary yet amazing at the same time...

[mr_kong]

heh that was interesting, and quite troublesome...

[insane]

Yea, it was pretty scary. I had a shotgun pointed at my face while leaving the house, still with my glock on my hip!

I don't think anyone will post more info tonight, but maybe tomorrow when they calm down a little bit.

PS. I'm SOOOO pissed that I didn't have my Helmet-cam on!!!! BALLS! :eek:

Anyway, it was overall a good first event for me. I liked it a lot and can't wait till the next game (if their is one). Hey Monkey, any chance you could try and talk to the people within a couple of weeks and try to get another game set-up for mid-late January? I really can't wait until the next event!

Good Game guys!!! :D

Edit** I'm also curious to see what the damn media has to say about the whole situation. If anyone in the Dayton area can get that I would love to see it. I bet the media will make airsoft look bad, yet AGAIN! o well...

[U_S_M_C]

I just want to know what the police were thinking when they pulled up to a bunch of guys in full tac gear carring assualt rifles...

So you will l be having games there though?

[mr_kong]

Originally posted by U_S_M_C
So you will l be having games there though?

What do you mean?

[Traverse]

I missed the MOUT, but the CQB was pretty sweet. Until the cops came and broke the friggin' stock off of my M4 (What can I say, its a piece of crap gun :P)

Hopefully we can get the airports permission to continue playing there. If not, I'm sure we can bribe them to let us do it. Maybe insane could offer them all some beef jerkey, as it appears he has a never-ending supply :P (no offense or anything)

And, anyone who is interested, watch channel 17 at 10:00 and channel 7 at 11:00 to see if we're on it. Yeah, I'm betting that they are gonna make it look bad. I'm gonna try and record it, so if anyone misses it let me know.

[BlackHawk97]

It was ridiculous, I am just glad Cottrelli and myself didn't go through with our assault. We where both respawning behind a shed in the back yard and had no idea what was going on. We had it all planed out, I was going to lay siege to the house with my mg36, then when I ran out of ammo in my standard that I had grabbed, I would drop it and follow Cottrelli into the house with my m4, simple yet a decent plan. Well, I counted one, two, herd a wait a second from cottrelli, looked around the corner that we where about to go storming from, and about 100 ft away, was a cop with a tactical shotgun, wow, it would have gottin messy I do believe. thankfully Cottrelli and myself simply dropped our guns, and yelled to the cop that there where 2 of us still unacounted for, and I got a quick response of "get down on the ground and put your hands out to your sides." Wow, it was definitely interesting, and I hope that they don't go through with there threats of charging us for trespassing. Im just glad they decided not to confiscate our guns, there for a minute they where going to. Well, that was my experience.

[mr_kong]

I'm just happy no one got hurt...

[Traverse]

Yeah, the fact that nobody got drilled full of lead was a definate plus.

[Locutus]

This is why its a good idea to place a call into the local PD to let them know when you are playing.

[BlackHawk97]

Ya, I am glad no one got hurt to, It could have turned ugly pretty darn fast, I personaly didn't trust that girl cop that was there, and when her sergant and her came back to pat down me and cottrelli, she had her gun pointed at us the entire time telling us not to move a muscle and all of this stuff, she was real edgy and stuff and I am glad no one made a sudden move around her.

[Traverse]

Yeah, I didn't like her much, either. DIdn't she tell you guys that it was that magical time of month?

[browning]

You guys are extremely lucky no one got shot.

[insane]

The cops actually said that if they guys would have ran into the house instead of stopped (which they did) they would have shotten the guys. I believe it's was Blackhawk and Cottrelli. They could possibly not be with us right now, lucky though they used their head, stoped, dropped the guns, and did what the police said. I personally was up in the second story, so I had NO IDEA their were cops. I saw everyone walking out with their hands up, so I did as well. Well, I got outside the house and immediately I saw a police officer pointing a shotgun at me, and yelling at us telling us to lay down on the ground. One police officer said "You better not even breathe wrong." It was pretty crazy!

One of the police officer's admitted to playing CS (Counter-Strike) and said it reminded him of CS. Another officer there stated that his son used to play airsoft.

Overall, the Airport Police wanted to take all of us to court, and confiscate all of our weapons/gear. The Dayton Police didn't want to do that, and neither did the Butler County police that was also their. After the LT. came in, and settled things he let everyone away with a trespassing warning, and let us keep our guns and everything.

Pretty crazy day to say the least! :rolleyes:

[Traverse]

Yeah, I was up in the window with my sniper facing the road they were coming on, so I turned around and told master and plutonius that cops were coming, then plutonius relayed it and when they came in and turned on their lights I put mine down and walked out front and did what they said.

Its a good think Cottrelli and Blackhawk are edjimikatid :P

[browning]

Hold on Dayton Police and Butler County Police? Wouldn't it be Vandalia cops? Or did they bring in a bunch of cops from around the area? I wonder if they'll have something about this on channel 5, 9 or 12?

[Fox]

As I said... Perfect example of what not to do when hosting an airsoft game...

Make sure you know who owns what around you. B&E/Tresspassing is not fun.

[Lu]

"I do not want a bad rap to be spread about cottrelli and i since we were under assumed knowledge and we encourage everyone to still attend whatever games we will hold in the future."

There is your problem right there, assumed knowledge. If your gonna take on the responsibility of hosting event, get your **** straight, and don't put people's lifes in jeproady.

"Hey Monkey, any chance you could try and talk to the people within a couple of weeks and try to get another game set-up for mid-late January? I really can't wait until the next event!"

I'd stay away from that place for awhile and inform police and resident's well in advance to your gaming. What I want to know is how open is this area that you were playing in to have been seen. That is your indication right there that it proably was not a good idea there.

This thread is not to harp on you guys trying to have a good time. But having a good time is not an excuse to possibly even further tarnish airsofts already "stellar" reputation. In the future, hopefully this will have served as a lesson.

[browning]

Yea really, never just walk in front of a cop holding a shotgun when you've got any airsoft gun on you. If I was in that situation, I'd just do what he says and lay the gun down and keep my fingers as far away from the trigger as possible.

[Traverse]

Yeah, that's what we were all doing.

[insane]

Originally posted by CRL1985 "Hey Monkey, any chance you could try and talk to the people within a couple of weeks and try to get another game set-up for mid-late January? I really can't wait until the next event!"

I'd stay away from that place for awhile and inform police and resident's well in advance to your gaming. What I want to know is how open is this area that you were playing in to have been seen. That is your indication right there that it proably was not a good idea there.

Why stay away? It's a place to play, and even the cops have SWAT train there. The Cops said it would be perfectly fine if we played there under two MAIN conditions:

1. Get permission from the Dayton Airport
2. Call the Local LE to inform them the event is going on.

That is what the actual cops that were on the scene told us.

There are already a limited number of places to play in Ohio, why demolish another great spot to play if we don't have to?

[rifleman]

I am sooo glad i wasent thier i probly woulda wet myself, lol

I am also glad you are all ok i am getting a sick feeling in my stomach just thinkin bout it.

:eek:

[Fox]

Limited number of places to play?

How long have you been around again? Yeah, thats what I thought.

Places to play in Ohio have jumped each year by leaps and bounds. First, it was Franbar, and some backyards.

But now, there are places all over Ohio in every corner to play in. From Toledo to Youngstown, Cleveland to Cinci.

Just gotta look, playing anywhere NEAR an airport is a bad idea in today's day in age. It's unfortunate - Yes, but it's the truth. Finding a place that has between 90 and 500 acres of land - wooded, Is VERY easy.

Finding a place to play in Doors is a tad harder - But extremely possible. I'm working on another place here in youngstown.

You just need to know to follow things through. Saying 'Hey, look that place is cool to play at.' Then getting permission from some one ONLY verbally - is an extremely bad idea. First rule of business will tell you that.

Your lucky. Don't expect it twice. I would *Defiently* try to find some where else to play, it's really not that hard.

[Traverse]

Yeah, I've got to agree with Fox.

[BlackHawk97]

There where different cops from everywhere, I think I even saw a state highway patrol go by:confused: . And yes we are very edjimikatid, lol, no, it was hard because I didn't want to startle the big man with the shotgun, and yet I wanted to get his attention, so I just kinda said" Um sir, there are 2 of us back... "get down on the ground now, put your hands out as far as possible, don't move an inch damnet." Ya, I am really glad cottrelli looked around the corner before we did our little siege on the house, very very lucky.

Actually, the "Assumed knowladge" that they had, was what was told to them by what they considered a reliable source, and if it where me, I would probably have done the same. Cottrelli was told by his uncle ,who we NOW know USED to own the house, that he still was in control of what went on there until it was demolished, and he said that we could play there, hence the waiver's everyone signed. Also, It is fairly open, the front yard anyways, however not many people go by, and we "in the past" where not close enough to the road for people to tell what is happening, but apparantly a few where able to get close enough for people to tell. As far as neighbors go, there is only a house on one side, and the people there know what we do and are ok with it as long as we don't break, destroy, etc. any of their stuff. Basicly what it comes down to was a little bit of bad info, that ended up putting alot of things in jepordy. Yes , it probably would have been a very good idea for them to contact local law enforcement, however you can't really put blame on monkey slap and cottrelli, I was there and had a shotgun stuck in my face, and I dont hold them one bit responsable. No matter where you play you always run the risk of something like this happening, no matter how many precautions you take. No not all where taken in this case, but even if so, if the regular police hadn't came, the airport police, who because of the "bad info" we thought had no juresdiction over that area, and would probably not have been called, could have been called and it could have ended up in the same way.

[xTc | subliminal]

im happy everyones ok. that would have been some scary **** and im also happy the guns didnt get confiscated because master_titled was using the sd6 i bought off him earlier today (think u where using it)

all and all get writtin permission before you play and dont tresspass

i also believe this topic is infamy material if you clean out the misc posts like mine and leave a moral

[Churchill2010]

This is probably the most infamous thing that has probably happened to anyone on this sight and no doubt the scariest thread that I have personally read and I suggest this for the Hall of Infamy when everything has settled down. Shocking really.:eek: :eek:
Good thing noone got wounded or hurt for that matter.

[Violator]

I typically don't post on the Past Comments of events that I didn't attend, but I feel this thread is important enough to waive that.

A few people mentioned that they didn't want to place blame on whoever got the house to play at, and I'd like to comment on this issue.

Whether you want to place blame or not, the fault does reside with somebody. I'm not here to point fingers or blame anybody, but this is why hosting airsoft games is serious business. Even small backyard games can go bad if neighbors find out or whatever. And remember, if the cops hadn't been as nice as they were in this case, somebody WOULD have been blamed. Keep that in mind. The fault always rests with somebody. In this case, everybody lucked out, and this can be used as a lesson in the future. This should almost be required reading for people who want to host games with AO rules. Might get them to think twice about the kind of preparation you need to hold a successful airsoft event safely and legally.

[insane]

I think this should be cleaned up and stickied like Violator said. This will be very good info for someone looking to host an event.

Edit* If you were there, you might recall this. Anyway, Monkey personally told the police that he was hosting the event, and he claimed to take full responsibility. Even though the end of the event went bad, everyone there was cool with it, and honestly, I thought it went good. I mean, the cops were just doing what they had to do. Heck, one police officer there said he's actually personally SHOT a person before because he had an airsoft gun.

This thread will be a good headsup for future event's, especially for a new hoster.

[Traverse]

Aye. I had my video camera there and filming after the cops let us all go, so I'm going to go get the AV cables back from Mangina tomorrow, then upload it all in case anyone wants to see it. It's mostly just us talking and walking around inside of the CQB house, but it does have some of the officers telling us whats going on.

[xTc | subliminal]

im up for it

[mr_kong]

xtc you caught me :D Just playing with it before i let it go. Man that single game was long, but yet, i didn't even use 3/4 of the hi-cap.

[xTc | subliminal]

i know what you mean its hard letting something like that go but you have to...... OR ELSE :mad: :mad: lol

[monkey_slap]

alright guys, ive got some feedback.

if you do not know the actual specifics of why the police were called, why we played at that certain location, and the result of the incident, please dont come off acting all bad *** and saying how much of an idiot i am. i know what happened. i hosted the whole thing and helped resolve the whole thing. its ok now, so please.

now to the quotes...

Originally posted by Violator
Whether you want to place blame or not, the fault does reside with somebody. I'm not here to point fingers or blame anybody, but this is why hosting airsoft games is serious business. Even small backyard games can go bad if neighbors find out or whatever. And remember, if the cops hadn't been as nice as they were in this case, somebody WOULD have been blamed. Keep that in mind. The fault always rests with somebody. In this case, everybody lucked out, and this can be used as a lesson in the future. This should almost be required reading for people who want to host games with AO rules. Might get them to think twice about the kind of preparation you need to hold a successful airsoft event safely and legally.

i never once stated that no one should be blamed. >I< should be blamed 100%!! of course its my fault that we did not put up any signs that stated we were having an airsoft game so that passers by could think "oh, airsoft. i thought those were real." i only ask that this not be held against me as it was an honest mistake. i even forgave a parent or two to clear things up.

Orignially posted by Fox
Just gotta look, playing anywhere NEAR an airport is a bad idea in today's day in age.

im sorry, but you are wrong. i spoke to several officers and the leutenint. there is no problem, it is just the informing of the local area that is the main concern. the dayton airport just told me to contact them if we want to play there again.

Originally posted by Fox
You just need to know to follow things through. Saying 'Hey, look that place is cool to play at.' Then getting permission from some one ONLY verbally - is an extremely bad idea. First rule of business will tell you that.

lets get this clear. the house was family owned for numerous years. family, as in blood relatives. since the figure who gave us permission was a trusted member of the family (and dont give me "oh you shouldnt trust them anymore LOLZ jokes) we assumed that the property was indeed in his name.

Originally posted by Fox
Your lucky. Don't expect it twice. I would *Defiently* try to find some where else to play, it's really not that hard.

for some it is for some it isnt. when youve got loads of cash to go around and play games wherever you choose its simple. but, some of the kids that came out were first timers and wanted something somewhat local and personal where they could have fun. stay away from our games if youd like, but please dont discourage those that may need the sort of atmosphere. yes we screwed up, but the seriousness of the situation will not go unnoticed. forms are being written, files are being filed, and people are being called. hell, the whole town will probably know when an airsoft game comes around.

Originally posted by insane
Why stay away? It's a place to play, and even the cops have SWAT train there.

lol. i appreciate you trying to help defend the game, but no, the SWAT does not train there. i think someone just asked the police officers to come play or something.

Originally posted by CRL1985

There is your problem right there, assumed knowledge. If your gonna take on the responsibility of hosting event, get your **** straight, and don't put people's lifes in jeproady.

if i wouldve known that the cops would be aiming real steel weapons at my players i would have probably said it was a bad idea to come and play. from what i knew and have known the past 7 games ive hosted my "****" was straight.

we know what happened, and we are still dealing with it. this is a one time thing. it is now a lesson learned. i say sticky this thread definitely, because it was a big f-up and goes to show that when not done up to fully needed preperation you can achieve the worst when it comes to hosting an airsoft game.

i am as of now looking around for bigger fields. and, if fox is as right as he is w/ the 90-500 acres being easy to find, we may have something new in a couple months. but for now i am obtaining the written consent from the dayton airport to allow us to continue playing at the house. more caution will be taken at the MOUT as well, since the same is possible to happen (even though the land is actually owned by a blood relative).

so dont worry those of you who dont want to gut me and hang me to dry, games will go on in Tipp City/Vandalia for the time being. it will definitely be at least 3 weeks before you see another one. who knows how long itll be before the paper work gets sorted out.

thanks all

[Wallace]

Hindsight's 20/20, what's done is done so lets just wrap this up and learn from the mistakes. I am glad no one was hurt though - a simple mistake could mean one of the player's life... say someone "retreated" out the front door all tactical~ish with their AEG accidentally pointing at the arriving policemen.

Nonetheless, as many have said, letting local LE know about the game would be a good idea. Moreover, I would even go one step further and find out who will be the Lt (Lieutenant) on duty during the day / shift that you intended to host your game, and ask to speak with him/her directly first. Informing the Lt instead of just a random officer would be a much safer choice, because the Lt oversees all the day-to-day activities and encompass a much wider picture of the neighborhood then just a random officer. It is also much less likely that a Lt would take the day off, especially if he is already scheduled on that shift. Last but not least, if some uninformed officer dropped by and inquire about your event, throwing the Lt's name out will certainly carry more weight.

Finally, I am encouraged that you are taking the right step to secure the facility for future events. Now that you know who to ask for, securing the permission from the right people should not be difficult. And for everyone else, remember that unless it is a established commercial facility (e.g. paintball fields), or large private properties (hundreds of acres, meaning no neighbor would ever see what is going on inside the woods), you should always inform your local LE ahead of time - even if you own the facility yourself. Sure, maybe your retired Dad is now playing airsoft with you and your buddies in his run-down factory building that once made him rich... say sentimental value kept him from ever selling that factory building, and he figures if he is still paying property tax on that damn thing he might as well use it to the fullest. So, yeah its his property alright, but the clueless janitor who works across the street might still call the cops on you if he doesn't know what you guys are up to... These days people are overly sensitive about "OMG some terrorist is training across the street!!!" and you know what's gonna happen next.



Ez.Wallace

[rifleman]

the one cop with the shotty that walked back into the woods knew that you were playing airsoft right so why would he say he almost shot you or what ever are the cops just like triger happy or just tryin to act big what if some guys didnt know what was going on and thought the cop was another airsofter and shot him would the cop use deadly force because he got hit by some bb's?

i wasnt thier but i know cops have to do what they gota do but why would they be so cruel with words like saying he wouldve shot someone or something and the lady sayin it is that special time of month insinuating that she would shoot you if you move? i dunno they just seem a lill edgy from what i am reading here

[Enoch247]

First off, I was there at this game and one of the first people to make contact with the law enforcement. This is what I observed today.

Okay so the guys screwed up. It happens. Not everyone is a seasoned vet in the event hosting department. But, the first thing out of the organizers mouths after we were allowed to talk was "Officers this is all OUR fault." They showed responsibility when it was needed most. Things happen. Period. It is how you deal with them that matters.

I personally doubt that many people in the history of airsoft have ever requested to see the land title of any parcel of land before they would play airsoft on it. Monkey_Slap and Cottrelli had no reason to doubt that the said Uncle was misinforming them about his supposed ownership of the house. I personally play airsoft on a lot of land owned by family, and have never asked to see documents that prove their ownership...

It would be a shame to not learn anything from today, but it would also be a shame to stone people without knowing the WHOLE story.

The biggest oversight was not informing the local law enforcement that we would be in the area, but hind-site is twenty-twenty. Most people don't inform the authorities every time they play airsoft.

On a different note, I was somewhat appalled when some of the players began complaining that the way the LE (law enforcement) handled the situation was outrageous and too strict. Those people were probably more scared then we were. They didn’t have a clue what they were dealing with or if they would all be going home tonight, but in contrast, we knew we would be fine as long as we followed their orders. If I occasionally have to be inconvenienced by the same people that make it safe for me to sleep at night, then I say, “It is a small price to pay.” Besides, in the end they were a lot nicer to us than I would have been had I been in their shoes. (Joking around with us about having to go home and change their underwear after all that excitement, talking about Counterstrike, asking who was winning before they broke the game up, and even shoeing the media off before they could finish setting up the camera because they didn’t feel it was necessary to have it plastered across the evening news.)

Edit: I began this post an hour ago, so some of this is repeat/simillar to Wallace's post.

Rifleman,
If the LE seemed a little edge it was because: A. they probably were and, B. They were trying to be very clear to us that if we moved, they would be foced to shoot. (Something they very much did not want to do.) If they yell at us and convey that they will shoot with little provoking (what you call edgey) then we all get scared and lay very still for fear of gotting shot.

[rifleman]

what if some one didnt know that it was a real cop and thought it was just some one on the other team messing around and shot at them maybe they are to far to make out what the cop said this whole post has got me scared to play airsoft again cause i dont wanna get shot on account of not knowing whats going on if this ever happens again (hopefully not)

[Fox]

Originally posted by monkey_slap

lets get this clear. the house was family owned for numerous years. family, as in blood relatives. since the figure who gave us permission was a trusted member of the family (and dont give me "oh you shouldnt trust them anymore LOLZ jokes) we assumed that the property was indeed in his name.



Trust them, but have written permission always. Something I learned from hunting, this way the blame does not fall on you. I hunt on about 8 people's land when I do, including my own.

I carry written permission, in a seal plastic bag from:
Saint Paul's Monistary
My Father
Baired Brothers Farms
Divers (Local family)
And a few other people as well. I go each year, knock on their door, and have the write up for them to sign. Not a hard deal to do. This way, even if its *Not* their land, and they give you permission - you cannot be blamed leagally due to the fact you were given false information. Also, when I play airsoft on Saint Paul's Monistary, I have written permission for it as well.



for some it is for some it isnt. when youve got loads of cash to go around and play games wherever you choose its simple. but, some of the kids that came out were first timers and wanted something somewhat local and personal where they could have fun. stay away from our games if youd like, but please dont discourage those that may need the sort of atmosphere. yes we screwed up, but the seriousness of the situation will not go unnoticed. forms are being written, files are being filed, and people are being called. hell, the whole town will probably know when an airsoft game comes around.


Since when does money have anything to do with it? Yes, I have contacts due to my last name, and the area. And yes, it's some times easier to get permission and such - but money really doesn't mean anything.

Why? Easy. It just requires a little bit of effort on the requester of permission's part. Most open/unused wooded areas - have little use other then hunting. Which means, you might have to stay out of there a few times year for a week or so. (Depending, on if they bow hunt there or not.) Farmers, especially at not all ********. People who own ALOT of property, are normally very nice.

How to do it:
Step one: Find the place you want to play at.
Step two: Find who's property it is via Taxmaps (Can be found online), land grids, or just asking around the neighborehood.
Step three: Talk to the owner. IF they say no - move on. If they say yes, YOU need to get the propper things set for it. Meaning, Waviers (if needed) Insurance (if needed) etc.
Step Four: If you want any developments done to the land (Clearing trees/building things) Make sure you have WRITTEN Permission.

Once you have written permission, your good to go. Just make sure to make the owner of, said land, happy.


Theres ALOT of open area in the Dayton/Springfield range. I know, I looked around that area to go hunting at before. As well, theres alot of area around ohio to play at. Good listing of places if the Farm and Dairy news paper. (Hey, I grew up on a farm...) They have places that are listed for sale, normally giving a name and phone number, etc.

If not, ask your local farmer if he has a bit of land you can use. In all honesty, to host a 40-60 player event - 20 to 40 of acres if all thats really needed.

Anymore then that it's just over kill. We tried playing with about 30 people on an area roughly 300 acres. We never found each other all day. So, when we practice now, we limit it down to a 5 or 10 acrea area.

I'm not trying to be a ****, but this is a serious matter. If you want tips/help trying to get land, just ask. Things are not that hard - developed areas... yes, given are a tad harder. I'm trying to get right now an area with a 2 story building (extremely large) and huge oil tanks. (x4 million gallon) along with a few other buildings on the same property, all fenced off. Now, if this is going to happen or not - beyond me. But, we shall see. It's all a matter of spending the time and making the calls.

Anyways, cheers for no one getting hurt.

[dustin]

Glad noone got hurt, and the media didnt get their grubby hands on it.

Originally posted by rifleman
what if some one didnt know that it was a real cop and thought it was just some one on the other team messing around and shot at them maybe they are to far to make out what the cop said this whole post has got me scared to play airsoft again cause i dont wanna get shot on account of not knowing whats going on if this ever happens again (hopefully not)

Noone in airsoft should impersonate an officer of the law. Yeah I know people dress to simulate SWAT, but a person should never simulate a police officer. Its kinda hard to say, yes hindsight is 20/20. But if the law enforcement officer was holding an AK47, it may be a giveaway. Either way..airsoft or not..impersonating law enforcement is a crime that I believe no airsofter would want to be responsible for. Besides, most people look around at the fellow players and their gear before a game, which is probably the saving grace in their situation at gunpoint. Overall, its always good to just drop the gun and reach for the sky. There have been articles in the past about this, but none with this much on an impact because I was going to attend this game but was not feeling well. Had I been there, it would have been a life-changing event. Overall, lessons learned. I have spoken with my local law enforcement and introduced them to airsoft, and the realism of the guns. They shared many stories of nearly taking kids lives because they didnt understand that cops could care less if it is real or fake when you are pointing it at them. I agree, if any lessons could be learned, the should be learned from this. Always inform your local law enforcement, and I agree that a Lt. is the best person to contact. Try to even invite them out to see how the events look and where they are located at. Never hurts to teach an old dog new tricks.

[THX]

I always thought that the airsofters that wear real body armor were crazy and just wasting money but this is the best reason Ive seen so far.

[monkey_slap]

Originally posted by THX
I always thought that the airsofters that wear real body armor were crazy and just wasting money but this is the best reason Ive seen so far.

ya, i had my kevlar vest on that day. the officer asked me after i got frisked "what the hell? is that real?" and i just looked at him and said "yes sir."

people, you should not question the policemen's actions whatsoever. i think they did what was necessary. sure, they were REALLY harsh at first, but what if we all had real guns and the cops were mushy on us. headlines of the paper wouldve been "7 dead cops at local raid" or something. they needed to secure the situation before attempting to ask questions. even my own mother argued that they were too agressive and i just said listen, you had to be there. if you were there you wouldve understood. the only brutality i saw was probably when they had my hands behind my back and lifted me up by my fingers. heh, kidding, but it hurt.

the point is i am so incredibly thankful that no one got hurt. especially thankful that cottrelli peaked before him and blackhawk charged. even though this is a somewhat comical thing to everyone, if cottrelli hadnt looked i can garuantee you that with the attitude of these officers at least one of them would have been shot. and im dead serious.

so thanks to everyone for keeping their cool too. and next time, dont film us being questioned and such. i dont think the officers saw that, but if they wouldve they may have thought we were taking it all as a joke, thus ticking them off.

Originally posted by Fox
Why? Easy. It just requires a little bit of effort on the requester of permission's part. Most open/unused wooded areas - have little use other then hunting. Which means, you might have to stay out of there a few times year for a week or so. (Depending, on if they bow hunt there or not.) Farmers, especially at not all ********. People who own ALOT of property, are normally very nice.

How to do it:
Step one: Find the place you want to play at.
Step two: Find who's property it is via Taxmaps (Can be found online), land grids, or just asking around the neighborehood.
Step three: Talk to the owner. IF they say no - move on. If they say yes, YOU need to get the propper things set for it. Meaning, Waviers (if needed) Insurance (if needed) etc.
Step Four: If you want any developments done to the land (Clearing trees/building things) Make sure you have WRITTEN Permission.

Once you have written permission, your good to go. Just make sure to make the owner of, said land, happy.


Theres ALOT of open area in the Dayton/Springfield range. I know, I looked around that area to go hunting at before. As well, theres alot of area around ohio to play at. Good listing of places if the Farm and Dairy news paper. (Hey, I grew up on a farm...) They have places that are listed for sale, normally giving a name and phone number, etc.

If not, ask your local farmer if he has a bit of land you can use. In all honesty, to host a 40-60 player event - 20 to 40 of acres if all thats really needed.

Anymore then that it's just over kill. We tried playing with about 30 people on an area roughly 300 acres. We never found each other all day. So, when we practice now, we limit it down to a 5 or 10 acrea area.

I'm not trying to be a ****, but this is a serious matter. If you want tips/help trying to get land, just ask. Things are not that hard - developed areas... yes, given are a tad harder. I'm trying to get right now an area with a 2 story building (extremely large) and huge oil tanks. (x4 million gallon) along with a few other buildings on the same property, all fenced off. Now, if this is going to happen or not - beyond me. But, we shall see. It's all a matter of spending the time and making the calls.

thx fox. note takin and i may contact you later on if i get stuck. sorry if i came off as a prick, but last night i was just peaved at everyone that criticized (negative or positive).

Originally posted by Wallace
Nonetheless, as many have said, letting local LE know about the game would be a good idea. Moreover, I would even go one step further and find out who will be the Lt (Lieutenant) on duty during the day / shift that you intended to host your game, and ask to speak with him/her directly first. Informing the Lt instead of just a random officer would be a much safer choice, because the Lt oversees all the day-to-day activities and encompass a much wider picture of the neighborhood then just a random officer. It is also much less likely that a Lt would take the day off, especially if he is already scheduled on that shift. Last but not least, if some uninformed officer dropped by and inquire about your event, throwing the Lt's name out will certainly carry more weight.

good idea. i didnt think to speak with a LT. but i did think it would be wise to inform someone with the authority to inform the department. but telling a LT. may be a bit better.

[insane]

Fox, what about playing CQB or other event's like that? You've talked a lot about wooded events, with 90+ acres, but what about CQB event's. I'm asking this because I like CQB event's and do not like woods. Do you know any places around the Cinci area, tops an hour away (Dayton is about an hour) that there are places set-upp to play at?

I've checked the upcoming event's thread, but most of those event's, 1. Arn't CQB, 2. Are too far away.

Any suggestions?

[mr_kong]

Yes, i think all of us can say, who were there, that monkey_slap had the balls to take full responsiblity. Thanks monkey_slap

[copboy]

First off I wasn't there. With that said I know about how law enforcement works. I am a former Police officer and my fiancee is a current police officer. From what has been described the officers mostly acted in accordance with what is taught in the academy. We all may know that they are non lethal weapons but to an officer rolling up on a scene like that they look very real. I personal have drawn my weapon and ordered people to the ground for having much less. A deadly weapon is anything that can cause sever bodily harm or death. Hay a peanut could be a deadly weapon against some one with a peanut alergy.

In this day and age with all the terrorist threats and the criminals getting better armed officers and departments aren't taking many chances. Most of you might remember the North Hollywood Bank of America shootout. 2 masked gunmen with automatic weapons and body armor held the cops at bay for hours and injuring over a dozen people. The situation at the CQB house could look like that to many people passing by. i am sure the officers acted on the information that you were heavily armed and raiding someones house. So they , as I would have, came with the assumption that the weapons were real and posed a threat to them. Cut them some slack guys they may have said some stuff that didn't seem right or that seemed harsh but remember that to them this is a life and death situation until they have it under control. The adrenalin is running just as high in them as it was in you.

As a final note a suggestion. When playing post a sign at the entrance ( front of the driveway) that states "Airsoft Game In Progress" . This in addition to the suggestions to contact the Police and the surrounding neighbors will also let people just passing by know that it is a game and nothing more.

I look forward to making It to an event soon and hope to meet all of you.

[Fox]

Originally posted by insane
Fox, what about playing CQB or other event's like that? You've talked a lot about wooded events, with 90+ acres, but what about CQB event's. I'm asking this because I like CQB event's and do not like woods. Do you know any places around the Cinci area, tops an hour away (Dayton is about an hour) that there are places set-upp to play at?

I've checked the upcoming event's thread, but most of those event's, 1. Arn't CQB, 2. Are too far away.

Any suggestions?

CQB events are a tad harder to get - but very possible.

They are harder because the majority of the time you need to deal with Corperations/Businesses. And, they have more on the line then a farmer or such who has open property. IF someone slips and falls down the stairs - who do you think they are going to sue when their leg is broken? The person who is hosting the event? Or the company with the million dollar insurance policy?

Once again, it is possible but you need to have all your ducts in a row before you go out and try to get said place. This is, showing you can:

1. Take all the responibility from them.
2. Showing you are protecting them, as well as your selve with a Wavier and/or Insurance.
3. Showing exactly where you want to play, and what safety measures you have.

Best places to play are one that cannot be used for any other use. The place I'm currently trying to get to play, is probably a stage 2 ground contamination site because of the fact it was a terminal. (Places for tanker trucks to fill up with Oil/Gas/etc.) And the ground contamination is probably, extremely high. I know this - because my own family has such a place. Unfortunately, it's in the middle of the city, so it would be extremely hard to do anything there.

But, it's just a matter of patients and trying.

[Lu]

"if you do not know the actual specifics of why the police were called, why we played at that certain location, and the result of the incident, please dont come off acting all bad *** and saying how much of an idiot i am. i know what happened. i hosted the whole thing and helped resolve the whole thing. its ok now, so please."

I wouldn't jump on people giving advice. There are people here who have been around here 10 times as long as you, and more importantly, Have been in this kinda situation before. With your recent incident, I'd take any form of critiqing with a grain of salt and move on. Do realize there actually is people here not just talking out of there rear end trying to get there post # up by sticking one to you. There are people here with these kind of experinces in there long time playing period. We can all learn from the past.

[Shifty]

Alright, this cannot really go any further than it already has. Thread locked and moved to the Hall of Infamy.