Guerrilla Warfare

[CheGregory]

One group, (a much larger group)(the Army) has an objective to go from point A to point B. They march out in the open. The guerrillas job is to pick off as many as they can.

The Army only carrys one extra mag with them, but ALL of the ammo is at point B. When that point is reached, the guerrillas must take it.

For this to work point B must have plenty of cover.

[BLACK SE7EN]

What if the monkeys take point b first?

[CheGregory]

the guerrillas cannot take point b until the army reachs that location...until then they focus on decimating the army on the march

just like in many guerrilla wars, they really dont care where the army is going, the focus is more so on making sure they dont get there

[BLACK SE7EN]

How many monkey wars have you beeh a part of? If they had a thought of where the army was going they would ambush them. And another thing who in there right mind would march out in the open.

[Oscar]

If the only means of crossing from point A to point B was a clearing then you'd have no choice. The best way to cross a clearing would be to set up security at the entrance of the clearing. Point man goes out to look around, then crosses the clearing. Point man calls squad leader up. Squad leader calls security across the clearing. If the clearing is too big to traverse from cover to cover then the tactic would change. The point man would have a look around first, then call his team out into a spread-out formation to cross the clearing.

If fired upon/ambushed while in the clearing the decision would be made on the fly whether the thread could be neutralized or not. The first order of business would be to get out of dodge while you still have men alive, then formulate a plan.

Crossing a clearing isn't hard, but takes the right strategy to ensure your squad stays alive. One or two men might die, but the rest will live if you play your cards right.

We had a similar scenario set up for an op at one of our fields. Each side started in a wooded area and the middle was an open area centered by a creek. The object was for both sides to move into the middle and find a downed pilot. One side is friendly to the pilot, the other side wants to kill the pilot. A fight would ensue of course... but the enemy may choose to set up an ambush for those trying to retrieve the pilot. This scenario would make for some great battles if done correctly. :) If there's no choice and you have to cross open ground to get to your objective then that's what you have to do. It's not an impossible situation. Urgent Cause was somewhat like this. What you end up with is a nice big battle for territory. :)

[BLACK SE7EN]

Your pilot mission is hardly the same as just marching out in the open. A creek is not a clearing or large open area. What were you, army or u.s.m.c. becase that answer was very good? I bet you were a 11b if you were anything.

[Spook]

Guerillas do not fight superior forces in pitched battles. When they do, they eventually get chewed to pieces. They hit, they run, they inflict as much damage as possible and leave. The guerillas' job is not eliminate the regular army, they simply can't. Their job is to tie them down temporarily.

If anything, the banana munchers' target should be the AMMO, not the troops. If they can blow up the ammo, they've done their job. That action will keep the army ineffective. Once the ammo is gone, THEN you have a better chance to inflict higher damage on the regulars.

S

[BLACK SE7EN]

Your right spook, we have forgoten about this type of warfare because it has a naw name now.....terrisom. When the war is in the u.s. intrest they are feadom fighters, when the u.s. dos'nt care they are guerrilla's, and when they are against us they are terroists. I have a game we call rules of engagment. First you need a lagre area then split it in to two areas. The U.S. force guards a point on their side(point can be anything like a main water valuve or a underground cable...whatever) but they can not fire on the other side of the feild or chase the rebel's(yet another word for guerrilla's) onto their side. The rebel army has to put a demo charge on the objective and are free to fire on the U.S. troops from either side and can go back and froth as they need to.

[CheGregory]

guerrilla warfare, has won wars (ex, Cuban Revolution) if executed properly. Although it is true that the guerrillas would be better off capturing the ammo, the enemy soldiers are their first target.

as described in "Guerrilla Warfare" by Che Guevara, the guerrillas biggest problem is lack of ammo, but they usually take this ammo from dead soldiers. Attacked large supply depots usually comes later in the campaign when the guerrillas are greater in number (400-500 men).

anyways, guerrilla warfare is the best tactic against the regular army when the guerrillas lack heavy weapons.

Id love to see somebody try regular army tactics with no air, armor, or artillary support and win a war that way....because they would just straight up die

[Oscar]

Originally posted by BLACK SE7EN
Your pilot mission is hardly the same as just marching out in the open. A creek is not a clearing or large open area. What were you, army or u.s.m.c. becase that answer was very good? I bet you were a 11b if you were anything.

Well, I consider open area just that--open area. The terrain might be varied, but it's still an open area. You're right though, a clearing is a small open area surrounded by woods, but the idea is the same when you're out in the open.

No, I've never been in the military. What I've learned has been from airsoft training. We have a very talented team leader who's a natural for knowing what works best and what doesn't. What he teaches us makes us think and know what to do in battle situations.

About two years ago I had zero experience and didn't even know what airsoft was. He must be doing something right if I get a compliment like that. :P

[CAR15A2]

Black 7 I disagree. Terrorists deliberately target civilians. Guerrillas usually attack military targets. Guerrillas "swim in the sea of the people" as Mao put it. Terrorists terrorize the people in order to control them.

A guerrilla CAN be a terrorist, and a Terrorist CAN be a terrorsist. But they are NOT the same thing, just seen from different perpetives as you claim.

Che- you seem to think Communism is cool. I suggest you talk to some people that survived Communism and find out the truth.

[CheGregory]

Originally posted by CAR15A2
Black 7 I disagree. Terrorists deliberately target civilians. Guerrillas usually attack military targets. Guerrillas "swim in the sea of the people" as Mao put it.

Che- you seem to think Communism is cool. I suggest you talk to some people that survived Communism and find out the truth.

im glad you know the nature of the guerrilla

(not trying to start a flame war, by the way)

but if you knew anything about communism you'd also know that it hasnt been given a chance to be properly executed, the U.S. or other nations have put economic barriers up against them that forced them into the desperate situations that you hear about

so really the blame for the economic problems lie with us, as american, because we go along with this imperialist big-brother genocide of countries

-che, out

[Spook]

Che,

Communism was executed EXACTLY the way it was intended. There is no such thing as true economic communism, it becomes an oligarchy. The few rule the many. The rulers end up getting EVERYTHING, the people who are constantly told the revolution is for them are the ones who slave away in the factories and die for the 'glorious revolution'. The number of Communist rulers who actually did any real fighting? Mao, Guevara, Castro that I can think of.

Communism is a useless lie. Don't fall for it.

[Fox]

Originally posted by CheGregory
im glad you know the nature of the guerrilla

(not trying to start a flame war, by the way)

but if you knew anything about communism you'd also know that it hasnt been given a chance to be properly executed, the U.S. or other nations have put economic barriers up against them that forced them into the desperate situations that you hear about

so really the blame for the economic problems lie with us, as american, because we go along with this imperialist big-brother genocide of countries

-che, out

You don't know your history too well do ya?

Read up on Marx a bit. Might help ya decide. And how big of a blood thirsty pysco he was.

Mainly: If you take ANY College History/Economics History classes - you'll see.

Communism on paper - Perfect.

Communism with the Human side of it - Hell.

Pretty easy. No goverment system is perfect in every aspect. Every goverment has it's down falls as well as it's positives.


And as Col. McKnight put it:

If they stood up and fought us, we'd make speed bumps out of them or targets for our AC130's.

[CheGregory]

the human aspect does mess it up, a bit, true

spook, i happen to view guevara and castro as the best example anyways, along with Mao and Ho Chi Mien...so the fighters are what i look at

actually i have read Marx, and you're right.. he says that the people must put themselves after the victory of the revolution

but ive never said anything about marxism, ive talked about communism and although very close, in the 20th and 21st century the have split in ways.

"Mainly: If you take ANY College History/Economics History classes - you'll see."

well, once again those classes have all been taught by an anti-communist society, they would never tell you how castro almost completely ridded Cuba of illiteracy in two years or how greatly he increased the sugar crop of Cuba.

Where the facts came from is just as important as having facts to start with

[Fox]

And yet... my history teacher was Chinese... from Red China.

Odd, how you say that yet... you have no idea.

Just like my Econ 201 teacher, is chechen.

Hmm.

No, I'm pretty sure they're not America.

As well, I'm pretty sure they both came from Communist countries.



And those two things... allow the mass murder of millions be justified in China and Russia? As well as the imprisonment and torture of Tens of Thousands under Castro?

Communism, in any form it exists on Earth, ever, will just be another name for Dictatorship, just like Facism - Considering they are nearly the same damn thing, other then the fact Facism uses the excuse of the 'old days' to bring it to life. (I.e. Germany being the next richt, and Italy returning to the Status of Rome, Spanish going back to the days when they had a huge Navy.)

Beleive me - Nothing you can say, will out weigh the pain, loss of life, and destruction that communism has caused over the era's.


And to the Marxism comment - Any economcis professor, as well as the vast majority of historians will note this between the two, as the only difference:

The practice of calling a govermental system by it's founder disorients the people. Especially, in this case where it's supposed to be about, the vast majority of people - Not, one above them all.

They are the same, no matter how you look at it. As well, a Dictatorship, is the same as them, and Facism as well.

Keep going? :) I currently have enough credit hours in the right places to hold my minor in history, at OSU. Though, I'm going for a double major - thus, I don't have the paper yet.

[CheGregory]

no, because we could really go back and forth and into ethics and other things of that sort, where there is no "right" answer

but i can say that "Tens of Thousands under Castro?" would not be true, the figure given by Castro recently, said that Che Guevara, who was in charge of the Cuban exectutions and tortures, put around 3,500 to death. The fact that this was given recently makes it more believeable.

[Fox]

Whats funny is you'll actually listen to that.


Sure, Communist Russia never admited they killed millions of Ex-soliders because they came in contact with Americas. (Every unit, including the commanders that fought with the Americans, in Berlin, Etc. Was put to death - End of story.)

Yet, this just came out in the '80's.


And Russia was so bent on self-preservation, it destoryed the majority of it's own natural resources, as well as the ability to get them in the process.



Hm... shall I go on to things that communist countries never admit?

There is a Right answer - Communism, isn't it. Communism, every time it's been around on this planet, has killed thousands, to millions of people.

Deaths? Maybe. Tortures? Heh recent numbers has been in the high tens of thousands - this number, comes from the UN Human rights group. Which, I beleive more then anything that comes from Castro's mouth.

[Oscar]

<- *ponders guerrilla warfare*

Main Entry: 1guer·ril·la
Variant(s): or gue·ril·la /g&-'ri-l&, ge-, g(y)i-/
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish guerrilla, from diminutive of guerra war, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German werra strife -- more at WAR
: a person who engages in irregular warfare especially as a member of an independent unit carrying out harassment and sabotage

[CheGregory]

once again, im arguing for the ideal, not for Russia

so to h*ll with Russia

we get facts from the U.S. and U.N. which are inflated and then we get facts from the source country which are deflated, so really i dont believe things like that.....everything is opinionated one way or another, so right or wrong i hard to conclude

but i do agree horrible things have been done in the name of Communism, but the again just as bad of things have been done in the name of preserving democracy....so it all evens out in the end

[Fox]

In terms of human life?

Alot less has been lost in the age of Democracy, then in the Era of communism.

Look back to the Greek and Roman days of Democracy - yes, it was limited. But they Still didn't kill tens of millions of people.

Communism works on paper, will NEVER work in this world.


Once again, I kindly advise you to take that out of your sig line. And perhaps, a philosphical statement, about paper communism would be better. Like, perhaps about sharing equally. Not, about revolution.

[Dante]

Originally posted by CheGregory
once again, im arguing for the ideal, not for Russia

my history teacher once told me that there is a communist town in NC or SC and its does work, but it doesnt work with more than 2000 people. im not saying im for communism, but it does work. capitalism/democracy is a much better form of economy/government and two professors at Capitol University (who lived in communist countries) agree.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Dante
my history teacher once told me that there is a communist town in NC or SC and its does work, but it doesnt work with more than 2000 people. im not saying im for communism, but it does work. capitalism/democracy is a much better form of economy/government and two professors at Capitol University (who lived in communist countries) agree.

What was the name of the town?

[Dante]

he never actually said the name he just breifly mentioned the state and what the city was like, sorry im of no further use. i will try to find out.

[CodnameSheep]

Che, not to disrespect you.

But you state that the US information is influenced and anti-communist and therefore wrong, but you turn around and listen to what Communists says about communism? Because we all know that they will tell you the unbiased truth?

Evidence 1:
but i can say that "Tens of Thousands under Castro?" would not be true, the figure given by Castro recently, said that Che Guevara, who was in charge of the Cuban exectutions and tortures, put around 3,500 to death. The fact that this was given recently makes it more believeable.

Evidence 2:
well, once again those classes have all been taught by an anti-communist society, they would never tell you how castro almost completely ridded Cuba of illiteracy in two years or how greatly he increased the sugar crop of Cuba

Evidence 3:
Where the facts came from is just as important as having facts to start with

-Sorry, but I think you're being a hypocrit with that last statement.

No hard feelings?

[snif]

Cool thread, some really good points on both sides I think.... but,

The first idea about marching across open ground, or at least in large groups, heck yes, that is the basic Army group-a-grunts. But where is the fun? They just get shot and you wait for the next Army group led by some junior officer who believes in going by the book... well kinda the book. Lets see, can you say supply battalion.... Iraq..... VN, anywhere?

Actually, why not just shoot a bunch of AirForce grunts. Heck, they just stand out in the open and aren't even armed. Just don't let the gunships get you tho. Army at least gives you a moving target, Marines a little sneakier for the most part. Navy? Gees, they stand around like the Air Force dudes.

Now, the Special Forces branches.... they just might ambush the ambushers. Don't think you will find any of them marching anywhere.

So, all the scenarios you guys mentioned have real world aps somewhere, some battle.

The commie vs US thing? I don't think that will never get settled, the conversation is typically too freeform and morphs into things that can't be held as fact by the opposition. Kinda emotional too. But what the heck, free speech free thinking eh?

Good observation about how the definitions of terrorist vs freedom fighters etc are from the point of view of the US.

Hard to type about political believes in this forum tho. Might want to stick to other stuff like scenario based things that Che started. He pin pointed a real weakness in the large troup movements of the Army. Ask any Lieutenant (I cant even spell it) how to move large groups of soldiers from one point to another. ha! I love it.

[CheGregory]

hey CodenameSheep, no worries, disagreement isnt disrespect

idk, i know im fighting a losing battle here, because most people disagree with the idea even, of Communism.

Really, im always up for a good debate, and communsim does has its downfalls, but i would prefer 3,500 deaths (all of whom were officers of Batista, and therefore war criminals) than to living in our 'Yankee Imperilismo" society where we pretend to allow soverignty to other countries, but intervene when they dont make themselves in-line with our policy.

I agree Fox, communism on paper, perfect....but people screw it up.
But im not going to change my signiture, because honestly, i believe that you should put the common good before person need

no hard feelings.....(codenamesheep)...of course, its all in good spirit