kwc m16a2 questions

[eksit]

1) does anybody else have this rifle?

2) if so, have you noticed that after rapid shooting, the gun will fail to fire full auto correctly (gun is properly lubed, was broken down and cleaned, currently using remote single fixed c02 cartridge), yet will resume firing full auto after a minute or so of no shooting?

3) is it possible to use nitrogen to avoid cooling down effect of inefficient green gas / co2?

4) what equipment is necessary for a nitrogen setup, and how much can i expect to spend?

5) does anybody have a correct manual for this gun (my version has no trades, retractable stock, and m4a1 style front grip). the manual that came with the gun has several technical inconsistencies with the parts layout?

thank you in advance.

[Secretagentman]

Well as I've owned 2 of the KWC M16A2 carbines I can try to help! I currently only have 1 which I'm in the process of adding hopup to and several other mods.
Anyhow.....

2)Yes...this is happens when the internal bolt literally freezes! The best way to reduce or totally elminate this problem is to get a better remote setup or add a quality expansion chamber to your current CO2 setup.

3)Yes, nitro, HPA, or a quality Pball type external rig would do a much better job of giving you higher performance as well as less freeze (or with nitro or HPA probably no freeze at all). This would also of course yield a lot more shooting time before you run out of gas and give more consistent rapid fire FPS.

4)For a nitro setup you'll need a nitro tank, a regulator (recommend Palmer regs...specifically the Stabilizer with low pressure spring so it's safe for airsoft replicas goes from 0-300psi though 300psi is too high for airsoft...would blow the seals apart) a guage (should be able to get it premounted on the Stabilizer from Palmer's Pursuit Shop), coiled hose to go from the tank/reg to the input of the M16...if you like QD (quick detach) adapters make life nicer when you want to put your rig down, also an expansion chamber for the tank/reg if you'd like to add a little more stability and less freeze problems. Basically to get a quality FULL setup look to spend at least $150-200. But think of it as a good investment as you can reuse this setup on any classic airsoft replicas or other gas powered replicas you get that you'd like to go external with! :)

5)I have a manual...I'll see if I can locate it and get back to you. Do you want scans or something? Any page specifically? Or any parts or info? I have some pics I've taken of the internals myself when fixing the second of the 2 I've had.

Also as a side note if you don't already know...raising the gas input pressure does not increase the FPS by any great margin. Maybe 10-15FPS if you're LUCKY! But it WILL raise the ROF by a good margin....and as the capacity of the mags is rather low I would not recommend this. ;)

Questions? Comments?

007...out

[eksit]

after looking some more, and using the co2 powerlet remote that kwc makes, i have decided on a co2 system. i have already ordered a 20oz bottle, with the adapter to connect to a regulator/directly in line with the gun. yes i am aware that by increasing pressure, the fps does not increase with this gun. i think that the velocity is fine stock =). i also do not plan to plug the bottle directly into the gun, and have contacted somebody re: a regulator, i.e. the "stabilizer" product. can you recommend the model of regulator that i should use? thank you for telling me the psi peramaters that this gun operates with, as i did not know that yet. what do i need in the way of an expansion chamber? as for the piston freeze, this only happens when fired fully auto for 25-30 rounds. i can burn a whole clip (45-50) using two - three round bursts without any problems (this is with the co2 powerlet remote). thanks for your reply!

[leon]

Hey I noticed you said you were trying to install hop up on ur kws m16a2 and well Ive known a few who have tryed but failed. I myslef was going to try to install it but for the past year have been so buisy with school and work and other things that I have totall forgot about airsoft. However I wish you the best of luck with the hop up mod and if successfull would you email me with the break down of how its possible? I have a few AEG's but I feel Gas riffles have a greater advantange do to its sound. Also Im not sure about this but if you did install hop up wouldnt you need to use Mauri clips and not kws ones? And finally if you could send info on your rigs, mainly the co2 set up and process of building that would be greatly apreacheated.

-leon

[Secretagentman]

*deep breath*......eksit....as for a regulator the Stabilizer IS a model of reg from Palmer. ;) It's a VERY VERY good reg. As for psi perameters....0-300 is the range of the low pressure setup of the Stabilizer...don't go to 300 with the KWC M16...I'd say 200 is the *safe* high mark...I'd personally say that 150 would be top and at that you're just going to burn ammo and gas like mad. :) Expansion chamber...you don't *need* it, but it can help. And just head over to www.pbreview.com (yes I know it's for paintball...but that's a great place to get reviews of PB gas gear) and check out reviews on expansion chambers. Yes piston freeze can be circumvented by doing short bursts, which actually is where you'll get good results in ammo/gas cosumption anyhow....but if you're willing to (or can) burn the ammo and gas longer bursts are a lot of fun with this replica! Shortly (time allowing) I will have good hicaps made for the KWC M16. And even a box mag in the works.
*takes breath*

leon...by *install* hop I don't necessarily mean installation of a premade unit like a TM unit. Though the thought has crossed my mind but the lack of room inside the KWC does not allow for much of a *unit*. The better way to describe what I plan to do is to dremel out a notch for a good o-ring to rest in...granted this will most likely be non-adjustable hopup...but I'm working on theory of a *device* to make this adjustable as well. If you check out airosftplayers.com you can see how ...oh shoot can't remember who....already installed hopup by means of an o-ring (which is where I got the idea). But there doesn't seem to be much info about it other than the 1 thread in which he states he dremeled out a notch and tested until the correct depth was acheived for a set weight of BB. I will of course give a full review and instructions on this site and possibly others once I have completed this mod...whenever it happens. I have so many *things* going on I never seem to get to doing all the mods I have started. I have several classic airsoft replicas and have plans for all of them and have started only a couple. :p The MGC Ruger 10/22 needs hopup work (sorta has it now, but doesn't work well) as well as I need to finish the real steel 10/22 stock mod to take the MGC inards and get the gas route figured out, my WA AR-7 SMG needs the gas tank seals fixed (which is mostly done, but I have 1 stubborn leak that just won't stop, this too I would like to get hopup on as well as fix the vavle threads), and my MGC MP5KA4 is just downright frustrating the living monkey out of me!!! So as you can see I have my hands full of upgrade mods to gas guns alone...not to mention my AEG's, pistols and custom projects. :eek: And I have to finish my BB/gas/FPS review tests for the KJW Ruger MK1 to post on another thread that I've been listing MK1 stuff on. Anyhow the rig I used to have was just a normal 20oz tank with a Palmer ROCK regulator and 2000psi palmer coiled hose. But recently I was forced to sell off the ROCK reg and the hose. But this only makes it better for when I get another rig I'll get the Palmer Stabilizer w/low pressure springs as it's better for airsoft anyhow.
*whew*
Also as another note...think of using HPA over CO2...you'll get better performance...less freeze...fewer temperature related issues...etc.
And check out www.classicairsoft.net for good info on gas setups and other classic related stuff.

The Palmer website is http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/

Questions? Comments?

007...out

[joeranger]

Let me know how the hop works out when you get around to it.
I had posted a KWC M4 double feed question on the old site which I think you responded to. Do you think a new mag might help?

[eksit]

hello, and thank you all for replying. i just want to let you know that i skirmished with this rifle about a week agao in about 7 different games, and i was impressed. i ended up using a 14oz remote co2 bottle w/ an anti-siphon tube installed, and a palmer's regulator with the rig. to find the regulator, search for "palmer's pursuit shop" in google. make sure that if you do buy a regulator, get one with a low pressure spring (i know that this has already been cited, but i wanted to reiterate this point!). the whole thing, when appropriately rigged up in a camel back, not only supplies water ;), but at least 3-5 games worth of gas. as i only had one clip in the games i played, the firing discipline i used left alot of co2 left over. also, the regulator is crucial due to varying temperatures whereever you may play, and also be aware that unregulated co2 WILL BLOW SOMETHING UP! this may be the seals in this gun, or the remote gas line. as far as piston freeze, with the regulator, this will no longer be an issue. more clips would be nice for skirmish, but i found that one clip was adequate. this rifle has impressive range and velocity, but the accuracy leaves something to be desired. for more info on the regulator system and fittings, go here airsoft regulator system (http://www.geocities.com/blakes_airsoft/reg/reg.html) .

as far as the hop up:

before i ever played airsoft, i could see that the the range with a stock barrell with low velocity on this rifle stinks. i cut a perpendicular slot in my barrell, and sunk an o-ring in there. this actually drastically changed the effective range. however, due to the barrell not being a tight bore, accuracy is still iffy. i will say that i got plenty of kills my first time out both in airsoft, and with this rifle. i reccoment using 3 round bursts when laying suppresing fire, and single shots when aiming at the enemy. also, highly visible white bb's help too =D. i will not give you specifics on the hop-up, as i dont want you kids trying this at home (in response to this post). rather, go here kwc m16a2 hop-up modification (http://www.airsoftarizona.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=325&whichpage=4&SearchTerms=kwc%2Cm16a2%2Chop%2Cup) for a more detailed description of the mod. BTW, if you expect you will be doing this to your gun, make sure that you find a source for a replacement barrell in case you RFU.

all in all, i must say that i was very impressed with the gun that i happened to buy on somewhat of an impulse, and that if given the chance to re-decide about aeg or gas, i would again go with gas.





ps

invariably when i was playing, i would hear a team mate shout that my gun was messed up, then another team member tell the first guy that my gun was gas. apparently, the sound the kwc m16a2 makes on single fire sounds alot like a broken aeg!

[Secretagentman]

Quite nice to hear of your experience! Just how did you do the hopup? PM me if you want. Did you find a source for barrels?? or did you just take your chances?

I expected no piston freeze with a reg and tank. But you only had 1 mag to use? Did you ever let off a large burst?
I've been toying with the idea of purchasing a BS inner barrel and making all the cuts necessary to adapt it to the KWC mount system....but I don't know. I still haven't gotten around to working on hopup for mine...so who knows when I'll get to modifying a tightbore barrel.

Oh, which Palmer Regulator did you get? Stabilizer? or something else?

007...out

[eksit]

well, i did the hop-up in accordance with the link that i posted. if you scroll down a couple of posts, you will find a post that contains the relevant info. but since you asked, i will tell you. i took the inner barrell out, then made a cut through the barrel about 1 mm up from the large c-clip. the cut was perpendicular to the line of the barrel. then, i took some o-rings of vaious sizes that i procured from a napa auto parts store (beleive it or not they had more pertinent parts than home depot), and tested different depths for the hop up. i will warn you to be careful not to cut too far, as you "can't go back", as too much o-ring protruding through the barrell is not good. but, if you do go too far, you can reposition the o-ring so that it sits further towards the top of the inner barrell. the worst problem i have accomplished is to set an o-ring too low in the barrell. the bb destoys the blockage, and then you have to pry a new o-ring back onto the barrell. what a bi***. just use common sense. all you are trying to do is add back spin to the bb. the worst flaw, it seems, with this system, is the bore of the barrell. it is too large. this causes an erratic flight pattern for your bb. offset this with a .25g bb of high quality. an ideal bore would be 6.04 mm, but as far as i know, this is not a barrrell that is mass produced or available for the kwc m16a2. however, i have a friend with a machine shop who played airsoft long before i knew what it was , who would help me attempt to machine a tight bore barrell. if you would like access to a vendor for a replacement inner barrell, dig through google, and email airsoft shops. i actually found a guy who would sell me the barrell. i never bought it, and i get the feeling that he was selling pieces from a non-functional rifle. i actually purchased the palmer stabilizer with the low-pressure spring for gas pressure range 0-300. be warned that if you use this rig, even with the low pressure spring, if you get too bold and turn the pressure too high, you can damage parts. also, re: the barrel, i have been told by numerous people that a tight bore aps2 barrell can be modified to function correctly with the kwc m16a2. re: the firing discipline, no i never wasted my ammo like that. i saw a lot of prople with 200-500 rd aeg clips spraying w/o looking where they were shooting, and im sure that some of those bastards killed me at times. it just proves the futility of war. actually, shooting one round at a spotted enemy worked fine, and as i stated i got numerous kills, and definately was able to hit what i was shooting at. alot of this had to do with the range, and the fact that i have a considerably higher velocity than most of the aeg's that i was playing with, excepting the snipers that were playing. i asked, and about 90% of people playing had aeg's that were not upgraded. additionaly, to put things in perspective, sometimes i did not even last long enough in a given round to use a whole clip! when i did run out of ammo, i just pulled out my kwa g18c w/ the hi-cap and went to town.