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View Full Version : Key to the City Opinions (Merged from both discussion thread)


Oscar
07-24-2004, 05:55 PM
Our team trained and worked hard in preparation for this event. We assumed we would be competing team against team, with real CQB, but what Key to the City ended up being was a mess.

Airsoft is not paintball, it's a milsim sport. I felt the scenarios that took place were aimed toward the paintball crowd and not the skill oriented teams. I felt the team placements were partial to the non-woodland camo players, giving them the distinct advantage in almost every case. The only scenario where the tables were turned was the football scenario, which Team BlackEagle won after the last members of iP left the field and forfeited.

My point is, we were prepared for some hardcore CQB and team-on-team scenarios. We assumed this event would pit teams against each other and test the skill of each team. Instead the scenaries were thrown together and poorly implemented.

Couple this with people that refused to call themselves out and people that used shields (which in my opinion cheapens the game) for cover. How much skill does it take to hold a shield in front of you? None.

People didn't play fair and I don't feel all teams got a fair shake. This wasn't a tournament, it was a series of wild romps in the woods with very little tactics being used. In most cases the digital/non-woodland teams were already entrenched and the rest of us were expected to advance to our own demise. It's easy to pick off people when you've got cover in advance of the opposing team's approach.

It was a big disappointment for me. I expected true team competition with the scenarios listed on the event site. I expected our skills to be tested against other teams. If I had wanted a day of randomness our team could've stayed home and played on our own field and had a much better time.

After all of the effort to prepare for this weekend, it was a big let-down to me and I'm sure some on my team would agree.

On the plus side, we got to meet some nice people and the day wasn't a total loss since we did get to do our thing and do it well, despite the odds.

Oscar
07-24-2004, 06:45 PM
Overall, we had a different impression of what this event was going to be. Now we know what to expect at Fran Bar. I can't say for sure that we'll be back. The scenarios were such a mess and moving back 100 feet and running toward an airhorn isn't my idea of a good challenging scenario. Milsim is what it's all about. :) Kudos to On-Site for making a good effort and to the vendor for showing up.

As for the football scenario, X-Ray from Team BlackEagle was the last person left. After my altercation with the shield wielder, I was taken out. So, I stood there and watched as multiple iP members went through the building X-Ray was still in and they found nothing even though he was still there--he had never left the building. The football was with him the whole time, since we left the starting building. I watched as the rest of iP moved on. I then walked out of the Hoochie for a couple minutes to talk to another teammate. Afterward, I walked back and there was noone around. I saw a couple of iP guys leaving for the open field on down the way, so I walked back into the same building we had been in before and called out for X-Ray. He was still there! As I was entering the building he (X-Ray) ran for the target building thru the other side with the football and won the scenario, even though iP was nowhere to be seen. He did what he was supposed to---guard the football and get it to the target location. The reason iP couldn't find the football is because it was still with the one guy that was left in the game and they gave up. After reaching the target building (I was shadowing him as a dead guy) we both called "Game Over", but by this time iP was at their vehicle(s) and no longer in the game. He stuck it out and iP gave up. lol As far as I'm concerned the scenario was given up on by iP, because that football never left the Hoochie until after you all had left and were standing there talking. That's when we walked out with the football. It was an honest win.

Grease Man
07-24-2004, 06:47 PM
First of all I had a blast!

Congratulations to Onsite for stepping up and hosting a game. Also thanks to Wallace for his help, and to 21stcenturyairsoft, and all the people from michigan for making the drive. Thanks.

Thanks to wallace for loaning Team iP the tac shield for the recover the documents (everybody vs. ip) scenario. I know we had a blast especially since we had the last three people standing on the field.

I know i was having an itch for some good ole' fran bar fun, and i'm pretty sure a lot of other people were too. And hey it was probably the most dry i've ever seen fran bar.

Thanks for the great day.

Namboose
07-24-2004, 06:48 PM
Hey, GREAT game today guys. Nothing like some good ol’ Franbar shoot em’ up games. Thanks to Onsite for putting this event on and to Wallace for helping get the games started. Had so much fun with the Strikers like usual, I had a nice shot on Glaeken =D. Thanks to Wallace for letting us use his shield during that 15 on 50 game which iP had the last 3 men remaining on the field. Thanks to 21 Century Airsoft for the awesome raffle.

DG-MON
07-24-2004, 06:55 PM
GREAT DAY OF AIRSOFT! YYEEAAHHH!!!!! :D
Great job Onsite! :) As well as Wallace, and 21st Century Airsoft Shop! Thank you for all the folks came down! As always, certainly a pleasure playing with you guys!

Rai

Prose
07-24-2004, 06:59 PM
A fine day of airsoft, I am still so tired that I can hardly catch my freth. LMAO

Dirty
07-24-2004, 07:04 PM
Good fun all day long everyone. Thanks a bunch Onsite and Wallace for organizing a good day of airsoft. Onsite, I hope you enjoyed your experience hosting a game, and I'm looking forward to what the future holds with you hosting games. I'd like to say great job to Team [iP]. We thoroughly enjoyed all the scenarios. It was great to play alongside the Strikers. Always a pleasure you guys. Overall, just a good shoot-em-up day to take a break from the hardcore milsim events that we have been having recently here in Ohio. When the next milsim event comes, Team [iP] will be ready and waiting!

Loki
07-24-2004, 07:09 PM
Being a long time airsofter, former forum moderator, and one who has experienced many events, I can tell you that first off all, if you had problems with the game, you should have said it AT THE GAME!

As for the shields, not a page above this sentance, you mentioned something about tactics? Shields are not the invincible end-all super weapon that people make them out to be. They can be easily taken out, try flanking.

I heard many accusations of cheating from both sides, but I personally witnessed none, so I can't comment on this.

You may notice that I seem a little irritated. This is because every time someone takes a chance and tries to organize a game, someone else complains after the event and picks it apart. The vast majority of the time, the person won't try to organize another one, and quite frankly i'm sick of people running off other people that actually try to contribute.

So in closing, if you think you could do better, then by all means try. I personally think Onsite did a great job, and would be happy to come to another one of his events. Can I get a hooah?

-Loki

P.S. If you forum mods up there think that any of this can in any way be construed as offensive, or just useless, then I request that you remove this post.I just felt that this needed to be said for quite some time now, and now felt like the right time

Titleist
07-24-2004, 07:16 PM
Hoo-friggin-ah!

I want to echo Loki's words, because he's an extremely level headed player, and a good person. I didn't attend this game, but it seems people stew about this kind of stuff until they get home and feel safe behind their keyboards. I hosted a game two years ago, OP:Frost Bite at fran bar, and it was a miserable experience for myself, and i never hosted another game since.

But please, the only way organizers have any way of knowing what worked isn't to simply come on these boards and vent your problems or frustrations. Constructively bring them to the attention of the organizers AT the game, be big boys about it, use your strong voice, complaining after the fact is lame, seriously!

I gotta give my respect to Onsite for hosting a large scale game, i wasn't there, i can't verify what worked and what didn't. But complaining about it doesn't really fix anything.

Oscar
07-24-2004, 07:22 PM
The experience I had with shields was being in a building and having a man with a shield walk up to me and hold it out in front of him. I shot the shield and then realized his legs and feet were vulnerable, so I shot (and hit) them, but still he continued firing on me. I yelled out in protest and he finally relented, but about that time as my attention was on him not calling out someone else from his team shot me. I didn't complain about it at the games because it had already been mentioned many times over, but it doesn't speak well for a team (one of which in particular I noticed this problem) that repeatedly would not call out when they were peppered.

We may be doing our own events in the near future, possibly even this year, if not next year. Our events will have an emphasis on order and milsim scenarios. Like I said, we got the wrong impression by viewing the specified scenarios, that this was going to be a team vs team event where skills were tested. We had no idea it was going to be as free-form as it was. When you get that many people out on a field it's mass chaos and you can't even begin to control teams. Most of the experienced teams were on the non-woodland side, which put the woodland teams that had some skill at a serious disadvantage. I felt it was lopsided. I'm not putting you down, just voicing my opinion. I'm sorry you feel like I'm attacking your efforts. We just expected a more orderly and milsim event. As for CQB, there was none. Noone entering buildings and trying to take out people and save the hostages, no clearing of rooms whatsoever. A lot was missing in my opinion. Where was the Key to the City? We didn't have a scenario about that one.

When you consider some of the other bigger events going on this year, that *are* milsims, and you're new to the scene of airsoft, you sorta get disapppointed when it turns out to be a free-for-all. That's all I'm saying. Even though I am new to airsoft, I've played paintball quite a bit. The reason I quit playing paintball was because there was no order to the way people played. Airsoft, to me, is pure military tactics and simulation. What I saw today was paintball in the guise of airsoft. Call me a prude, but I expected more.

Oscar
07-24-2004, 07:24 PM
The day was chaotic and I didn't want to raise a big stink. I decided that it would be better to bring up my impressions on the forums where everyone could have an equal say. One guy walking up to the people running the games may change things, but as many people as were there, it seemed useless to even try.

Now I know what to expect. Knowing is half the battle.

Oscar
07-24-2004, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Prose
A fine day of airsoft, I am still so tired that I can hardly catch my freth. LMAO

Nice.

Chaos008
07-24-2004, 07:48 PM
Ok, I wasn't even there, but I think you may have some misconceptions. Airsoft is airsoft. It isn't only Mil-Sim or Tac-Sim... It's whatever the host chooses. If he wants a "speedball" event, it is still airsoft. Not everyone is die-hard into Mil-Sim, it can actually turn a vast majority of people away. But please, don't classify airsoft as a "Mil-Sim only" sport.

Furthermore, I would like to say that even though the event is set up one way, it is all about the players. If a scenario is set up to be highly mission oriented, and all the players just decide to shoot one another.... obviously the mission-aspect of the game was lost. This is NOT the organizer's fault. A scenario is just the parameters of the game. The players make or break the scenario.

I can not say I have organized an event personally, but I am close enough to a group that regularly organizes events, and I see the amount of effort, time, and energy that goes into it. And even when they have practiced the missions over and over, it doesn't mean a thing. You have what, anywhere from 30-100 people (depending on what scale event) that are coming in, thats 30-100 new minds that are trying to out-smart, re-define, and overcome whatever obstacles that are in the way. There's no way anyone can plan for improvisation.

Just want you to see the other side of the coin. Organizers aren't miracle workers. Kudos to ANYONE that organizes a scenario. And yes, this is a 3rd party that wasn't involved, doesn't really know Onsite or anyone else there, and just feels like there is some aspects that needed to be brought to light. Sorry if I upset anyone, these are my opinions. I'm sorry it was not what you expected, but it sounds like everyone had a good time, even iP, which apparently was seriously outnumbered. Remember, fun first, realism second.

Oscar
07-24-2004, 07:59 PM
Points well taken Chaos. Thanks for the post. :)

As for iP being severely outnumbered, that was only one scenario, but lets not get nitpicky here. I did feel that there was some catering to certain teams when it came time to decide who went where. In most scenarios the camo was the determining factor. Yes, I understand that doing otherwise might make identifying friend from foe hard, but I got the impression that two teams in particular were given preferential treatment for the scenarios and the rest of us were the leftovers. Milsim expectations aside, it was pretty all out. There were parts of scenarios that I did enjoy though. Winning the football scenario was a nice touch to the day. We did enjoy ourselves... don't get me wrong, but our expectations were shot down---partly because of our own ignorance. Other problems like people not calling out when they were definitely out. You had one side that consisted of experienced teams and the other side had so many inexperienced players that ran to the slaughter, some of those were teammates that didn't want to follow any sort of gameplan.

At any rate, I think I've posted enough about it. That's pretty much my impression of today. Everyone has opinions. I'll leave it at that.

Chaos008
07-24-2004, 08:12 PM
Rock on. It just seemed you had too much negativity. Glad you enjoyed some aspects. Now I know it may be a hike for ya, but if you want some CQB action... EAG is hosting another installment of Mayday in September. They have a "town" consisting of 18 one-room, 2 story buildings. Might be more towards what you'd like. All the reviews I've heard of from the past 2 Maydays held were extremely positive. (also, I was at both. And let's just say the helocopter wreck is an added bonus. ;) And there's plenty of town-battle to be had)

Oscar
07-24-2004, 08:34 PM
Sounds great. :) I know we have the three day Northern Wind in September too. It would be nice to run through some CQB scenarios and challenge ourselves. Gimme a date. It all depends on our schedules and who can get off work, but I'm sure our team would be interested. We were looking forward to clearing some rooms today, but that never happened due to the way the scenarios were set up. We'd been practicing for weeks for today, but never got to use any of it. :(

I apologize for sounding so negative in my posts. It was a shock to us all. We're a milsim team and have been training for milsim from the get-go with ex-military teammembers using tactics they learned in the service. Although we did get to use some of our training today in woodland combat, the way we play is geared more toward a slow deliberate process of feeling out the enemy and doing what keeps you alive.

In one scenario as per the web site, there was going to be a downed pilot that had to be moved to a certain spot. Once in that spot the pilot had to be guarded for 5 minutes to simulate a real-life situation where you couldn't extract him right away. Our team had practiced this scenario in preparation, thinking each team was going to go thru it individually. In fact, that's what we expected of all of the scenarios mentioned for the event, but that's not how it was---as we found out. And that's where the disappointment was. That our hard training for this event, while it was necessary anyway to get ourselves up to a certain level, wasn't necessary at all for the event. We were looking forward to testing our training and never got the chance because it wasn't so much milsim.

JaredLeto
07-24-2004, 10:08 PM
This was my first event, it was MAD fun. I tagged along with Team Black Eagle. Props to OnSite for bringing this whole thing together. Also, I got a super-cool foregrip from the raffle! Thanks 21st Century Airsoft!

NexusAnomaly
07-24-2004, 10:25 PM
I enjoyed the game alot. I did notice some cheating at some points, but overall I feel that it was a great day. I had gotten there the night before when there werent as many people, so the night games we had were smaller and less chaotic like some of the larger games we had today. It was my first large organized game, so I enjoyed meeting knew people and meeting the guys I have only talked to on here. It was nice to see everyone in person wihtout a doubt. Everyone is real cool and I would love to attend many more games when they come along. I think Onsite did very well today, its not easy to run a game like this im sure and I give him credit for stepping up and running one.

NexusAnomaly
07-24-2004, 10:38 PM
Yeah great day hands down. Was my first large game and I enjoyed meeting alot of people from AO or atleast seeing them. Made some new friends so thats always good. It was very nice to have 21stcentury there, I am very happy that they came down for this game. Game turned out very well and I look forward to future games at Fran Bar.
I remember a while back when Onsite told me he was going to host a game, well he did a damn good job and I think everyone feels the same.

Glaeken
07-24-2004, 11:19 PM
First , I'd like to thank Onsite for stepping up and putting this game together.

Second, Thanks to Wallace for coming up with some quick scenarios to give everyone a chance to play.

Third, big thanks to 21st Century Airsoft for suppling EVERY raffle prize. Raffles are NOT a mandatory thing at airsoft events and shouldn't be taken for granted. Make sure you visit their site and spend some $ to thank them for graciously donating items to be given away for free.



Now for some important information:

Any day spent playing airsoft is better than work, 'vegging' in front of the tv, or the XBox. So, count your blessing that you got a chance to play with 81 other players.

Organizing games is not something to be taken lightly. It's difficult, tedious, and time consuming. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to attempt organizing should be thanked and not ridiculed.
I'm not saying that constructive criticism isn't warranted sometimes, just remember to do it politely. There is no need to simply moan and complain about a game that you had no part in organizing or getting set up.

Like I said, organizing is difficult. Trying to get 80+ players to simply listen to a briefing - respecting the speaker - and not jibber-jabbing away while the scenario is discussed.
I don't know how many times the roar of the crowd drowned out the 'briefer'. How can you expect things to go smoothly when 50+% of the players don't know what is going on because they chose to not listen to the briefing?

If Onsite had issues with the organization once the attendance started blooming, he knows what they are and I'm sure he will work on them. The difficult part is trying to get everyone to pay attention and follow directions.
I'm sure Onsite wishes things went differently and future games will show his dedication. Don't let one game turn you off to what can be a fantastic sport. Remember, you were able to shoot live players that shoot back. One does not get the same 'high' from video games as playing against real people in real-time outside.

Also, Fran Bar park is home to a lot of paintball players. It's difficult for the field owner to turn those players away when he makes more $ off of them than he does from us.
With that, the ability for us to have total use of the field is sometimes limited, and scenarios that were planned didn't necessarily pan-out for that reason.

I heard a lot of issues with cheating (not calling hits), I didn't see any personally so I can't specifically comment about any single incident.
What I will say is that it is so easy, in the heat of battle, to miss who you are shooting at, or the target not feel the hit.
For instance, today I got hit in the chest and didn't feel it...but, I sure heard it hit my gear. Also, I have been behind a bush or tree and been shot at by at least 200 bbs and not one of them hit me. conversely, I've emptied entire hi-caps at a target and not hit them.
So, take it from me that every time you pull the trigger and fire on someone that does not necessarily mean you will have automatically hit them.
If there are blatant cheaters out there - you know who you are - you better make a supreme effort to change your ways. This game depends on everyone being honest about the hits. It's not that big of a deal to be hit. Everyone has been hit, it's not an embarrassment, you won't be laughed at, you won't be ridiculed, it's just a game. It's not life and death...etc.

Ok, enough about that.



What a wonderful day for airsoft, eh?
Not too hot, not at all wet.
Never have I seen Fran Bar so dry.
It's great to see new faces and play with old friends again. Thanks to you for all coming out.
Michigan team...thanks for making the long trip to play down here in Ohio. Hopefully we can repay the favor by attending one of your games.
You guys played with tenacity and great honor in the final game in the building. I've never heard the term "call your shot" before and I appreciate the courtesy. I think I heard it personally about 8 times...sheesh.

Namboose.....nice shot, pal. You and that Thompson are mine in Cleveland. :D




In closing,
Although the game didn't flow exactly as Onsite hoped, I had fun and that's the reason we come out.

Anyone that is disappointed should consider any time that you play with your team it's a chance to put into actions anything you've practiced. Ask yourself if you used what you practiced.
Did we move as a team? Did we communicate and work as a team.
Take these questions and apply them to any game no matter if it's a pure mil-sim event or if it's a lighter run-and-gun type of event. Don't think that all of your training went to waste simply because you didn't stack at a door or clear a room in traditional swat-style. It's not all about that hollywood crap. It's about you and your team moving in a fluid manner, communicating, and working as a team.
If you and your team get completely wiped out and yet you were fluid, it's just the luck of the draw.

Glaeken
07-24-2004, 11:50 PM
Yeah, I know it's a double post.:rolleyes:

Every game should have a safety post. So here it comes.


Goggles:
Airsoft Ohio stipulates that only full-seal goggles be used at Airsoft Ohio sanctioned games.
I know that some of you don't care to wear a full-seal goggle or haven't been able to purchase them yet. If you don't have them - get them.
No one wants to be the person that shoots someone's eye out or seriously injures a fellow player. Don't be responsible for putting someone in that spot. Wear full-seal goggles and save not only your eyes but the sanity of your fellow players.

FPS & CQB:
In CQB or Close Quarter games, remember that shooting someone close will leave a lasting impression if you have a 'hot' gun.
Even if the games do not specifically dictate a minimum-engagement-distance, keep in mind that courtesy should precede pulling the trigger.
Use common sense and don't assume that simply because you may not mind being shot really close, someone else may not at all like it.

Tempers:
Combat is stressful and that usually ends up coming out in the form of temper.
Sometimes in the heat of battle everyone's temper flares up. Remember to keep your wits about you and relax a little bit. If situations arise that makes you very angry - step back and breath.
There is no need for face-to-face confrontations. It only makes matters worse. It usually forces that person to become defensive and belligerent compounding the problem.
Step back and breath....then talk about it with the 'offending' person. It's possible they simply made a mistake that they regret and by you going to them and calmly discussing it - it gives them a chance to apologize.


Alright, enough about safety.

IP, it was great playing with you guys again. All that working together is showing.

Strikers, what can I say? It's an honor.

I'm not going to 'shout-out' to everyone as this post would be longer than my last. But suffice it to say everyone makes this game interesting and I enjoy playing with you all.

jimmypop
07-25-2004, 12:11 AM
i had a great time. i cant wait to see the war wounds pics that wallace took.

localbacon
07-25-2004, 01:05 AM
Thanks Onsite, Wallace, and the vendors for organizing this event. I'd also like to thank the Strikers for donating a helmet to me after I got my head shot up on the last senario (9+ head shots, oh ya). No hard feelings towards the shooters, I had a helluva fun time during that last senario :cool: . I can't wait to see those pictures, Wallace! I hope the oozing blood gives a dramatic effect. Overall, the day was very enjoyable and hope to see and play with you all again in the near future.:D :cool:

Oscar
07-25-2004, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by JaredLeto
This was my first event, it was MAD fun. I tagged along with Team Black Eagle. Props to OnSite for bringing this whole thing together. Also, I got a super-cool foregrip from the raffle! Thanks 21st Century Airsoft!

Jared, it was great having you tag along. We enjoyed your company and you did an awesome job as one of our teammates. We had a lot of good things to say about you on the way home. :)

We hope to see you again at future events. You're always welcome to tag along with us.

I had some good fun as well, but it definitely wasn't what I expected. In hind-sight I think it would've been better if people were separated up into smaller teams and two different scenarios run at the same time. It would've curbed some of the chaos that ensued.

Oscar
Team BlackEagle

Pliskin
07-25-2004, 09:28 AM
I have to echo the comments of my esteemed colleague, Glaken, above, and address a few small items of my own...

First off, Onsite, I think I know exactly what you are feeling on this "day after," but I would like to implore you, should you be thinking thoughts like "never, never again" to please take a step back and reflect on things that went well for the event.

As a group, the airsoft community is desperate for new orgainzers, and stepping up to the plate took a hell of a lot of stones, and I respect your for that.

If you are thinking of quitting the organizer position, I would state that you have just learned some lessons that will greatly improve any game that you should do next.

Thank you for your efforts.

In other news, I heard way to much of the same-old same-old griping that there is little one can do anything about (luckily no one was complaining about the weather - which was absolutely AWESOME):

IFF: There is going to be friendly fire, that is how it is in the real world, and unless we start with shirts vs. skins (in which case I, on skins, could instantly render all tangos blind...lol) then this situation is going to be a problem, unless we have a hardcore milsim event where uniforms were deciuded ahead of time (I had to put on Woodland for Operation Lion Claws in CA, and there were no issues oof friendly fire that I could recall, but that is a whole other thing...) Take a moment and be sure of what you are shooting at...the way it happens in the real world.

Cheating: I am really sick of this topic, and even sicker when people get upset at an organizer because people are playing poorly, or (a case that few wish to address) - did you really hit them? (of course, we are all crack shots...right? One shot, one kill). This situation is a fact of the game, and getting mad just makes everyone regress in terms of maturity...and there is not omniscient organizer skill that will allow the truth to come out or for the "cheater" to be kicked off of the server...lol

Deal with it. If you choose not to play with a certain person again, then you are more than welcome to NOT invite them to your own game, right?

Here is a big one, not all events are going to be hardcore milsim. Personally, I have done nothing but milsim and training for the past year and I was looking forward to a little "Paintsoft" and I am not ashamed to say so - there are more than one kind of game to play...I never think of Fran Bar (and I have been going there since '01) as a site for serious MilSim, but I was really looking forward to some smile-on-your-face speedball - sue me...

Okay, that's about enough, but let's remember the important point:

ONSITE, STAY WITH US MAN...

and I think I can speak for others that there is a sort of support mechanism in place for would-be organizers. Use it. Create a game that you would like, give it a try...

Chaos008
07-25-2004, 09:40 AM
Freth... lets just say your team practicing Pilot Extraction would be extremely helpful ;) Hint Hint. The next presentation of Mayday is September 4.

http://www.eaghq.com/

That's the home page of the place that holds the event. They have the link to the Mayday homepage under the administration section. Check it out, it sounds like you'd enjoy the type of play we have up here, though like i said, I know it would be a hike for you. Maybe I'll see you guys there!

The Tick
07-25-2004, 09:54 AM
I just want to echo what has already been said. Thanks to all who made this day of airsoft possible. No matter what went right and what went wrong it's still a great way to spend the day.


Onsite - Anyone who has been involved in running an event understands how big a task it is:eek:

Apology - I feel I should apologize for accusing someone else of not calling their hits. I don't know the player's name (dark tunnel). We were in the west tunnel and came face to face at about 20' with no cover. I believe I fired first and then he returned fire. I was shocked to not feel a single BB hit me. When I got over the initial shock I fired again. The other person then ducked around the corner. At that point I vocally questioned them for not calling out and they did the same of me. Now, if they could miss me from 20' could I have missed them? Of course, I should have just moved on. I also lost my temper a bit when I heard the other person say something about my team. If someone thinks I cheated they should think that of me. It has nothing to do with my team. As a matter of fact our leaders routinely remind us that we need to call out if we even think we are hit. If anyone thinks I behaved badly that should reflect on me not on Strikers.

MC51ED
07-25-2004, 12:48 PM
HOOAH
Thanks to onsite for putting this event on. Freth i do agree with you that there were some problems with people not calling out, but that happens at every game. I had a blast and so did the rest of my team that attended. And just for the record, all airsoft is not modeled to be milsim.

MC51ED
07-25-2004, 01:02 PM
I had a huge blast at this game, and i didn't seem to think cheating was a big issue. But i would just like to say something. In one of the Ohio vs. Michigan games my team and I were hiding in a building. One of the tunnels entered into the building, and i was guarding this entrance from about 15 feet up. I know some people came through there and i did shoot them in the head, because i was up in the air and that was all i could see. I do apologize for the close shots like i did when i shot you, but just so the guy who accused me of shooting a hot gun knows (i wont say a name) my gun shoots in the mid 330's.

Oscar
07-25-2004, 01:22 PM
I know people complaining gets tiresome and old, but I'm new here and new to the airsoft scene in Ohio. Although everything we've been working toward is milsim, I acknowledge everyones' comments about other more lenient forms of airsoft. I have no problem with that. I just got the impression from the itenerary that it was going to be more milsim/test of skills. I guess what might be a good idea is to have it specified in the event details what to expect. While our team leans more toward milsim, we do like a decent romp in the woods for fun. The let-down for the build-up of expectations we had is understandable from a milsim standpoint. We had unrealistic expectations and had this grand tournament conceptialized in our heads. I suppose we'll get our fair share of milsim with Urgent Cause and Northern Wind. I'm really looking forward to those. :)

My negative comments aside, I did have fun. There's a phrase I frequently say, "I just wanna shoot people!". When it comes down to it, that's all that matters. :D

I appreciate all of your replies and viewpoints and respect them. Thanks for posting.

Prose
07-25-2004, 03:22 PM
Thanks to Onsite for organizing this event. Great weather and dust at Fran Bar, never been there when it was so dry! (No rusty nails or floating turds either.) My complements to all that turned out and those who made the long drive from up north. It was good to have so many enjoy the sport of Airsoft. (And a raffle, very nice!)

It was quite the mixed bag with some teams, some orphans, a lot of players new to the field, a very large turnout, and sharing it with paintballers made it an organizational challenge – thanks to Wallace for stepping up and helping pull things together. It was great fun to clear buildings again and let the BB’s fly. All the MILSIM this year has been excellent, but this was just plane fun.

I did hear chatter about hits not being called on both sides. The volume was up as compared to the MILSIM events. I wonder if it is the one hit and out for the game vs. the medic rules of MILSIM that get you back in and add to the challenge of the day? Whatever, it still comes down to honor and the respect you or your team wants to earn.

Damn, I missed playing speedball at Fran Bar - that is the best! The “take the card from the dead guy in 60 seconds after you shoot him and the team with the most cards after the time limit wins” is always a good one (each player gets 2 cards). There were too many people yesterday for that one, maybe next time.

Catch you at the next event, iP will be at Northern Wind and Urgent Cause…

Vertigo
07-25-2004, 04:49 PM
If anyone gets ahold of some pictures from this event, please post the URL that i can find them at or email them to me at checker6@sbcglobal.net I would really appreciate it because I am planning on posting them on my website. Thanks

Glaeken
07-25-2004, 05:53 PM
Vertigo,

Wallace was gracious enough to post all of the pictures he took on the Easy Company web site.

Find it HERE! (http://www.ez-co.com/Album.asp?Folder=A20040724)

Thanks Wallace for again providing great pictures of the event.

P90killer
07-25-2004, 10:20 PM
ok now that i had a wonderful 12 hr of sleep and am all rested i can say this.......

that was a great 2 days of airsoft between the night games and the games saturday i had enough airsoft for the weekend. he simulations were great. that was something that me and our team have never played before. but overall very good day for airsoft

onsite thanks for putting on this event.

and to the people with negative attitudes towards the event. i wanna see u host an event sometime in the near future.

J Teezy
07-26-2004, 12:58 AM
wish i could have been there

Blitz[ip]
07-26-2004, 08:40 AM
Great job Onsite

I would never think that organizing an event is an easy task, but you handled it very well.

Personally I have been playing a lot of milsim recently and it felt very good to get back to some old-fashioned shoot-the-**** out of other players. Great job and I had a blast

boomstick
07-26-2004, 09:33 AM
We appreciate the effort Onsite! Alot of stuff has already been said but I was a little disappointed there was no speedball. But, the usual things were there: cheating;b-i-t-c-hing;oh, wait a mnute! This was an AO event! Par for the course.:rolleyes:

Wallace, as usual, fine job stepping in and also providing excellent media coverage.;)

Locutus2999
07-26-2004, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by boomstick
We appreciate the effort Onsite! Alot of stuff has already been said but I was a little disappointed there was no speedball. But, the usual things were there: cheating;b-i-t-c-hing;oh, wait a mnute! This was an AO event! Par for the course.:rolleyes:

Wallace, as usual, fine job stepping in and also providing excellent media coverage.;)

Yes, there are never any complaints of cheating at events that are not AO events... and considering its mostly 99% the same people that attend both the non-AO Ohio events and the AO events, that makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

CoOk!3 6()|)
07-26-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Locutus
Yes, there are never any complaints of cheating at events that are not AO events... and considering its mostly 99% the same people that attend both the non-AO Ohio events and the AO events, that makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

Seconded, I've attended AO events as well as Striker organized events, cheating, and *****ing occured as frequently at Striker events as it does at AO events.

Lates,
Scott

Titleist
07-26-2004, 12:01 PM
ba zing!

Sorry, cheating happens wherever you go, either in the heat of the moment, it's happened to me too. I've been to a few Striker games, and milsim isn't some shield from cheating.

Gotta agree with Locutus and CoOk here, a games a game, as long as airsoft is a game where we have to call our hits you will see people cheat, sadly.

boomstick
07-26-2004, 12:48 PM
Yeah, the same a.s.s.holes who cheat at AO usually show up everywhere. What can you do? Take it with a grain of salt and keep on playing. People have thier own style of play. I didn't really mean to imply that AO is just for cheating. If I offended I do apologize. Bottom line: cheating is an unfortunate occurance in Airsoft, no matter where you play.

Munin
07-26-2004, 05:23 PM
The easy answer is to just not invite the cheaters back for the next event. Sure, lots of people get accused of it at some point, but if it's a regular occurrance, chances are good that there just might be something to it.

Oscar
07-26-2004, 06:46 PM
This is a message from Rammer, one of the members of BlackEagle. I'm posting it for him since he can't get on and do it:

As a former marine i was not impressed with the days play it reminded me of the civil war, but the people were cool and it was a good day i made new freinds and thats cool.

Semper Fi

Rammer
Team BlackEagle

Lone Gunman
07-27-2004, 09:49 AM
First off I think Onsite needs to be given as much praise as possible. I think if not for this event almost none of would be playing for at least 2 or 4 weeks( I just saw OP Wolf Forge was cancelled). Thanks man I was really itching to get shot at, I just am not happy if someone isn't. And I look forward to more events that you host. Getting 81 people to show is no small feat. Keep your sights up.

STRIKERS, what can I say. Thanks. Thanks for letting me roll with you guys. I had a blast. And I promise not to use that crappy throat mike anymore. Thanks guys. OH, Boom and Hydro, I wish I had a camcorder or at least a tape recorder in the tower during that seige mission. I am still chuckling today from what I heard.

Loki, Wallace, and Jimmy Pop, great to see all of you and that EZ is alive and breathing still. Hope to see more of you this year.

Thanks to 21st Century Airsoft for coming down. Its good to see fresh targets I mean people :). And major kudos for that last CQB in the house. I was wishing I had a grenade.

IP and everyone else who came to unload en mass the bbs glad to see you all. Twas a good day indeed. I only hope there are more days like that.

As far as issues about the games 15years paintball and now 2 years airsoft have taught me that if something comes up about cheating or organization. You address the issue immediately. Waiting only makes you more angry and frustrated. As soon as you possibly can address it with the organizer, or whoever is in charge. This is a game of Honor, and a issue of Honor in this sport is of paramount importance. I will get hit for this one put not addressing then and there is like crying over spilled milk. I only hope that if anything is accomplished by this is that waiting is a bad idea. I don't wish to rub people the wrong way, but the understanding and we act in a courteous and civilized manner should be a given.

Thats just my view and thats how I am.

Can't wait for the next OP and hope to see you all again.

Rack Em

Lone Gunman

Nosebuckle
07-28-2004, 12:05 PM
Big thanks go out to Onsite and 21st Century Airsoft, even though I didn't get to stay till the end. Despite that, I had a great day. It was fun playing in old Fran bar for a change, after having a flurry of MILSIM events. I thought the organization was fine, sans for a few misunderstandings but no one is perfect. It was nice to see Wallace and have him lend a hand to the scenarios. Although the most of the scenarios turned a bit haphazard, all I really wanted was some good shooting in a tight environment.

rifleman
07-29-2004, 09:06 AM
That was a awsome game especialy being my first. I have one Question i saw people there with airsoft ohio pacthes how do I get one?

Grease Man
07-29-2004, 09:22 AM
rifleman,

I believe combatdepot sells them.

rifleman
07-30-2004, 08:34 AM
:cool: the game got me hooked and now I am going to get a tm famassv from 21st century airsoft .I am glad they came too becuse my gas usp just broke and i had to send it back to the company, but what I am trying to say is if not for the rentals then I would be out of luck:D

Turtle
07-30-2004, 10:44 AM
yeh in the michigan defend game in the far building, i had to light up a guy in his head because...

1. all i saw
2. he was raising his gun up to shoot at me at the same time

then wut made me angry he just dodged out of my site and i saw him no more then 10 sec later near the stairs >:(

anyways i had alot fun

long drive though

Wallace
07-30-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Turtle
wut made me angry he just dodged out of my site and i saw him no more then 10 sec later near the stairs >:(

I believe attackers have unlimited respawn with no time limits, so once you got shot, all you have to do is "leave the scene" and respawn. Therefore its perfectly normal to see the same guy got shot, and 10 seconds later he's back in the action. That being said, don't get angry, just know the rules next time. And look at the bright side, you probably shot (and kill/eliminated) him 6-7 times before he or someone else got you. Just gives you more chance to shoot more people more often. Its all~~ good. :-)



W.

Turtle
07-30-2004, 01:22 PM
true about the respawn but were they not suppose to say hit and go at least 30 ft away?

well i had a good time anyways id do it again

rifleman
07-30-2004, 02:18 PM
Turtle you really shouldnt get mad because#1 it 's a game & #2 your supposed to have fun:cool:

Wallace
07-30-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Turtle
true about the respawn but were they not suppose to say hit and go at least 30 ft away?

well i had a good time anyways id do it again

Typically "Ouch", "Crap", "s~hit that hurts" and sometimes "F! F! F! F! F!" also means "I am out". I'd just assume if he's walking away he's been hit. As far as 30 ft away... well, 30ft isn't all that far away. lol

But anyway there is no point trying to figure out if he is following the respawn rule, the important thing is that I am glad you had a good time - that's all it matters anyway: not who win, who lose, and who got shot / who didn't call themselves out. If everyone can just keep that mentality and care about fun while being serious (regardless if they win or lose the game), airsoft would becomes a much better sport.



Ez.Wallace

Turtle
07-30-2004, 08:58 PM
i had fun and thats all that matters :)

i bet that kids face hurts lol

Wallace
07-31-2004, 12:03 AM
Yeah no kidding... did you see the bleeding head picture on the photo album that I put up? Its the last photo. I wonder if that's who you shot... if so, I can assure you that he called himself out immediately after getting shot... because I was right behind him most of the time when we charge into the house. lol

The funny thing is, I have my hats on and my head still hurts like hell, so I can imagine how bad his head is hurting. But after each charge, we ran back to ther other tunnel and regroup, and he is always the one who said "lets do it again!"

Talk about hardcore... lol



W.

Turtle
07-31-2004, 12:14 PM
hmm yeh i saw that i dont think it was him my gun is stock using .25g
i dunno if my gun is even capable of that



hey wut kind of camera were u using... there very crisp pictures

localbacon
07-31-2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Wallace
Yeah no kidding... did you see the bleeding head picture on the photo album that I put up? Its the last photo. I wonder if that's who you shot... if so, I can assure you that he called himself out immediately after getting shot... because I was right behind him most of the time when we charge into the house. lol

The funny thing is, I have my hats on and my head still hurts like hell, so I can imagine how bad his head is hurting. But after each charge, we ran back to ther other tunnel and regroup, and he is always the one who said "lets do it again!"

Talk about hardcore... lol



W.


I was the guy with the bleeding head shots, and trust me, it hurt. :D But after the adrenaline got pumping, I didn't feel a thing. My skull has made a full recovery and I plan to wear the helmet that Team Striker gave me @ the next game!:cool: Even though it hurt, I thought that was the best/most fun game all day. Sorry if it seemed that I didn't call out, but trust me, I did. See you all at the next game!:cool:

Turtle
07-31-2004, 08:30 PM
were u looking up through a link wire fence into the second floor of the building that michigan was defending???

if so im sooooooo sorry :(

rifleman
08-27-2004, 10:44 AM
a kid at the game had a modified paint ball marker that shot a spray of bbs just wondered if he was on this forum i thought it was pretty sweet but he needed hop up on it

Professor Fate
09-02-2004, 09:50 PM
Hey Steve, it wasn't me who used it at the game, I was in Indiana instead. However my friend Alex was there and he might have used his cuz we were talking about it. I dunno. I'll ask him about it and tell him not to use it again.

rifleman
09-25-2004, 01:36 PM
he didnt use it in the game i dont think, but he was deminstrateing it out side of the field i dont think it was any thing too power full the bbs traveld may be 100fps and didnt shot too far.