Recon Mission: No engaging unless fired upon

[J Teezy]

Does anyone have any or done in games setup something like this

You have a USA team with say 6 people on it. An alpha and bravo team

Then you have a higher number terrorists team, say like 20 or so


The USA team could either have to get from point A to B without loosing a member or as least amount as possible or....

They have to go recover something and get it to a extraction zone

The catch is this:
The USA team may not engage an enemy unless the enemy fires upon them first (you would have to come up with some twist though if the scenario involved the USA team recovering something cause more than likely there would be terrorists around the item so you would not be able to get it without taking them out. I guess you could have it set up where the terrorists who are actually within a certain vacinity range of the item have to go on a set patrol route every like 15 or 30 minutes or whatever. That way the USA team would have to stake it out, and then wait for the terrorists to patrol and then sneak in and grab the item and get out.

[^cRYpTic^]

So even if the 'USA' team (either alpha or bravo) sees a terrorist(s), they cannot fire on them?? The terrorists would simply surround the "USA" team, and then fire, creating a crossfire (and a massacre).

[Chaos008]

Somehow I don't think the terrorists will see a soldier and think "Let's not shoot them until we fully surround them because they can not shoot us until we shoot them, and then we will create a crossfire and kill all of them." And I highly doubt the US soldiers would just sit there and let themselves be surrounded. He's trying to incorporate stealth and rules of engagement.

[AllenTC2]

Yeah, that ROE is a little unrealistic, ESPECIALLY if the 'terrorist' team knew about the US restrictions in advance. A 'recon' scenario is possible, but saying the US team can only fire in self-defense is a little extreme.

In any kind of recon mission, or a mission involving sneaking in a place and taking/leaving something, stealth is your primary defense. But I cannot ever recall reading of an ROE that says "If you are discovered, you still can't shoot until they shoot first." I think the operator would certainly have the latitude of shooting first if he's discovered.

The only time I have heard of an ROE like that is when you have heavily populated areas with bad guys mixed in (sorta like in Bagdad). You can't just start spraying into crowds to nail that one sniper (well, you CAN, but it generates bad press). Having a scenario like that would be difficult, as you'd need a lot of non-playing players (acting as the 'innocent bystanders') and you'd want some terrain that allows your 'terrorists' to blend in..like a village of some kind. I think I'd just stick with something like the US team must infiltrate area X without being detected...period. If you get spotted, you've blown the mission.

LOL Upon reflection, that'd be boring as hell...no shooting at all. Unless the mission had something like a final objective of "once in Area X, you will assassinate Premier Z and immediately head to the extraction point"....cuz THEN you could have some shooting! LOL

[notabob]

or that they cannont be detected (or fire upon anyone) until after they have retrieved the item and then all the opfor must be elimintated and the item retrieved must reach the extraction point before it is a success.

[J Teezy]

right. The terrorists would not know that the US team cant fire on them.

Doing like notabob said was what i was thinking. Have you ever played Rainbow Six 3 on xbox. The one mission you have to get through the building without being spotted and can not shoot anyone. You have to get to a van where you arm a bomb. Once the bomb is armed, you are weapons free. Fire at will on enemies and get out of dodge

[notabob]

thats basically what i said but with the exception that you MUST kill everyone after you have completed the first objective before the mission is a success. i think it would be pretty cool/ challenging. at least one man on the US team must survive to get the item to the extraction point to win though. or, one man could go straight to the extraction point to extract the item while the others kill everyone and then he can join up later to help kill everyone so it would be at least a partial success even if all of them did die.

[Locutus2999]

In direct answer to your question, yes we have scenarios like that quite a few times, it adds an interesting element, something you definately do not want to overuse though.

[sniper dude]

This could work well if it was incorporated as a minny mission in a larger multiple day scenario.

[J Teezy]

yeah, i think it could be pretty cool if say during a big scenario game the US team gets a sudden new mission where the commander has to now send a "X" amount of people out on this new stealth mission. It could be something like: "Intel has just reported that there is a huge amount of cocaine or a brief case containing some important documents about terrorists training methods or whatever. And this group of "X" amount of people must go in undetected to recover this item, only engaging when fired upon. Then once the Recon squad has radioed in that they have got the package, then the commander can give them the Weapons Free order. Kill anything thats in your way on the trip back to extraction or base.

[CoOk!3 6()|)]

The concept of not firing until fired upon is not so far fetched. I'm sure someone here has seen Black Hawk Down...

[sniper dude]

Mmmmmmmmm... Cocaine ;)

[Sgt. Horvath]

Edited by me.... nevermind

[Crossfire]

Actually recon missions are very useful. Team S.T.A.T. has one at almost every practice. They came in handy at Blind Fury. We were moving along a path, and we broke into two groups of 3 and split up. The group I was in went up on a little ridge near the chemist to see if there were any snipers. Then we get a call over the radio from the second group down at the path still, that they see a lot of Tangos coming straight for them. So my group books it to a little area with very good camoflauge and we hunker down for a good 20 minutes and TAC/UNRRF pass by us not more then 30 yards away from us. The second group went back a little the way we had come from, and they also hid, as TAC/UNRRF passed by and didnt notice a thing. We had to wait for a little while, becauce my group was taking some sniper fire, but nothing too accurate (no one was hit). Then almost 30 minutes later, when we think it is clear, we finally move out.

I think recon missions are a very good thing to get used too. If you come into contact or see another force, which may be larger and better armed then you, usually your best choice of actions would be to hide and wait for them to pass.

The way S.T.A.T. does a recon mission at our practices is a little different then what J teezy said.

We usually have 6-8 people at a practice. We will pick two members who either havent done it yet or want to do it.

Then the rest of us, split up into 2-3 pairs, and spread out into the forest and have little partols around the area. The two members on the recon, must go from point A to point B, hopefully without being seen. When they get to B (which is usually a corn field) They have to radio something like "Whiskey 2 to Bravo 4, ready for evac" Then they must wait a certain amount of time (to simulate waiting for the chopper to land) Then when that time is up, they must run about 30 yards into the field and 'get on the chopper'.

If the recon team can get to the evac zone with out having to fire a shot, that is a good mission. You usually dont need to fire in a recon mission for fun. When a patroling tango force is about 10 yards away from you, and you are laying in some weeds, that is scary enough right there.

[mainoffender20]

hmm.. this reminds me of the L.r.r.p.'s from vietnam. Long range recon patrol. The did alot of surveilance missions, where they could not be seen heard, or even traced. They all had silenced m16's or Car-15's. They even duct -taped all of their gear that clanged or made noise. Maybe the Us team could kill the opfor who were alone, or not visible by other opfors. It would be kidna neat, and then they would have to 'hide' the body. Like the person is sent somewhere, or even better, like in real life, they would have to be taken with the us team. So it would be a disadvantage to have to kill someone, because you would have to literally drag them alogn with you as you do the rest of the mission. This would kind of give reason for not shooting. It would also make the game a bit more fair, because the US would have to either not be seen.. give up their postion, or shoot an opfor and take him along through the mission.

could work :)

[Spook]

A) LRRP and SOG teams did NOT carry suppressed M-16s. They DID carry the CAR-15. but it was NOT suppressed.

B)On occasion SOG teams carried the .22 caliber Hush Puppy pistol for silencing guard dogs and the occasional guard.


Now on to the mission at hand. Last weekend, my team had a mission.
Infiltrate a 6 man recon team and a scout-sniper into an area where a civil war was being fought between 2 OTHER teams. We hid certain objects ahead of time, several jugs of dirty water marked "ebola sporydium", and an envelope full of documents. Initial intelligence stated that there was also a SADM in the area, which we searched for but found it had been moved. The sniper's mission was to eliminate the leader of one of the teams who posed a significant danger to the interests of the United States.

Happily, we completed the entire mission without loss of life. We were QUITE prepared to take out any threats if it became necessary