Fully Metal, Gas MP5 Navy?

[bigpepper23]

I've been looking into airsoft for quite some time now. I'm intrested in participating in squad tactics and to see what it really is like out in the field.

The gun I'm fond of is an MP5 Navy, and I was wondering; is there a fully metal, gas MP5? And if there is, would this preform better than an electric gun in range, power and accuracy? Also, what are the prices of the two? (if you care to dig them up)

Thanks for the help! :)

[sfrHawkins]

the onlhy gas full size i have ever seen is a gas Uzi...i dont even think they make mp5 gas guns let alone full metal ones. Just spend 310 and get an AEG. it is much more worth it

[bigpepper23]

So is does the AEG preform better than a gas? (if it exists)

[Kendodude]

well actually they use to make gas mp5's by a company called JAC, the only place you can find them now is on ebay. They have semi, 3 round burst, and full auto. I'm not sure if they're full metal or not cause like i said they are pretty rare to find. Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but i think an AEG would be more accurate since its more versatile to upgrades. If I were you i'd stick with an AEG since i believe you had to buy CO2 cartridges for the JAC MP5 and with an AEG all you have to do is recharge your battery (which saves you money in the long run and why i don't play paintball:) ) also since most airsoft retailers specialize in AEG's if something were to go wrong with an AEG there would be more people to help you along the way then if you broke your gas MP5. If you want to have a gun with full metal either get the newer ICS or spend the money on a TM MP5 and then buy a metal body kit for it.

[Fox]

To answer your question, completely, there are both a C02 powered gas version, and an AEG version.

The Gas version are semi-rarer, and much more expensive most of the time. Parts are harder to find, and magazines are rarer. A good site to start finding more information about these 'Classic' Airsoft guns is:

www.classicairsoft.net

Not only do they have a very intresting site, with information, and forums, they have a bazaar as well to find your weapons of choice. The guys over there are very nice, and knowledgable about classic airsoft guns, and will help you out at any turn.

Heres a link to their forums:http://www.classicairsoft.net/forum/default.asp

Heres the a link to their bazaar: http://www.classicairsoft.net/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3

Unfortunately/Fortunately, you have to be a member to view their forums, so please go here: http://www.classicairsoft.net/forum/policy.asp

Quiet a few companies used to make C02 powered Mp5's, JAC, Ashai, Youth Engineering, etc. Expect to pay alot for both magazines, parts, and the gun, as I said above.


Your AEG version of the Mp5 Navy is nothing more then a normal AEG Mp5 with a few extra parts. A good place to start looking for info is this site, heres a link to the search button, which you should use, and the AEG forum which will hold some information as well:

Search: http://www.airsoftohio.com/search.php?s=

AEG forum: http://www.airsoftohio.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=23

Tokyo Mauri, ICS/Airsoft Elite, and Classic Army are your 'main' AEG makers right now. Here are some good retail sites, both state side, and over seas to start your look for the gun, and parts:

Overseas:
http://shop.wargameclub.com
http://www.dentrinity.com
http://www.uncompany.com
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com

Any many more.

State side:
http://www.combatdepot.com
http://www.airsoftarms.com
http://www.airsoftextreme.com
http://www.airsoftatlanta.com

And many more as well.


You may also want to take a look at reviews of the Mp5 versions, there is a review section on AO here: http://www.airsoftohio.com/reviews/index.php

There is also reviews at these sites, here are the links:

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/beta/html/modules.php?name=Review_Links

http://www.airsoftplayers.com/ - Under information - Reviews.

also, use your friendly search engine and look for 'airsoft gun reviews' or such. Heres some links:

www.google.com
www.yahoo.com

Ect.

Good luck with your search.

Cheers
Fox

[bigpepper23]

Thanks a lot guys, this really helped. I'm looking into Classic Airsoft's forums, and there is a topic right on there about gas MP5s.

Looks like I'll be getting into airsoft pretty soon!

EDIT:: Erm, since I'm still kind of new to airsoft (i've been looking into it for about a couple weeks now), most of the terms used in those classic forums really confuse me, and I usually can not understand whats being talked about. The one thread about the Gas MP5's says that there is an external gas source. (or something like that)

What is that? Does that mean there is a gas tank on the outside of the gun? Also, a shell ejector MP5 was also mentioned, what goes on there? Is it just twice the bb's wasted when firing, just to make it look cool?

What I gather so far that the gas MP5s have is..

1. An external tank?
2. Shell ejecting (not sure how that works yet)

My main question here that still hasn't been answered by anyone is..

Which ones stronger, more accurate, and has more range?

[Kendodude]

i think that an AEG would be more accurate, stronger, and gain better range as long as your willing to spend the money for the upgrades. I personally would choose an AEG since both the gas and electric ones shoot approximately the same (I'm guessing on that since the barrel length would be the same some one please correct me since i'm only experienced with AEG's and would hate to give people the wrong information) but the AEG's have various parts to upgrade them with such as accurate barrels and more powerful springs.

[Secretagentman]

NO AEG's are truly not stronger, more accurate or have more range than a gas classic. The truth is that a properly maintained and upgraded gas classic would eat an AEG for breakfast then spit it's inards out at lunch and spew BB mayhem on them. :D

Gas classics last MUCH longer than AEG's to start with. Parts are indeed at times VERY hard to find, but this does not stop us from using these amazingly fun classic gas beasts! We either make out own parts or just search really really really hard and network to find what we need. Classic gas guns are not for everyone! They're gas operation system is much more robust than AEG's and can handle upgrades better.
Gas classics can easily out power, out range, and gain better accuracy than AEG's. Some gas classics even without hopup can easily hit several hundred yards in accurate range! They can also many times be upgraded to velocity's well over any safe limit...such as all the way up to 1,000FPS on certain models. Tell me of an AEG that can do that!?!
Remember as well that AEG's are very "new" and that classics have been around since the 60s/70s and they are still shooting strong with moderate maintanence and will continue to last for YEARS!

Anyhow enough of my defense of classic gas guns.......
Now to help with your questions.

1.External tank.....yes classic guns require an external tank as an air source. They do not use internal tanks that are common today in gas blowbacks. A tank and regulator system just like that of paintball is used. CO2, HPA (high pressure air), or NITRO (nitrogen) are the most commonly used propellants. Using an external source of say 20oz will last quite a while and still yield a very viable FPS. Tank systems with regulators and hoses can easily cost upwards of $300, but the upside is that gas is relatively cheap most of the time and the tank system can be quickly changed between gas guns if you have more than one classic using QD(quick disconnect) adapters. And of course you can purchase multiple tanks and keep them filled for those long days/weekends of play.

2.Shell ejection.....not all classic airsoft guns have shell ejection. Truthfully it is only a handfull. This simply means that they use a shell or casing that looks like a real steal rifle round that the BB is placed into. Then each shell with a BB loaded into it is loaded into the magazine just as you would a real steal weapon. Then when you fire a round that fake shell ejects after the shot just like a real weapon ejects a shell. They are indeed reusable and you DO NOT want to lose them as they are rather hard to find/replace. Typically they are non-skirmish weapons for this reason. If someone does use them for skirmishing they use a brass catcher from a real steal firearm to catch the ejecting fake shells. Using fake shells also really limits your ammo capacity and makes the airsoft weapon function/feel even more like real steel weapons.

Any questions??
This was just a quicky as I have to go fabricate some metal mount brackets...I will come back later if you need anything else or more elaborate answers to anything above. :)

EDIT: OH yes and classics are very often metal in build!!!!
And I guess I should have mentioned that not ALL classics require external tanks. My wording there was a little off and I did not mean that every last one requires it, but the VAST majority DO! But I have to make this clear as there are many out there that would just assume that I'm making an all encompassing statement and act like I'm stupid and just don't know what I'm talking about.

[bigpepper23]

These classic guns sound like beasts. I do have a few more questions...

1. So the external tank appears on the outside (external (duh))? Is it easy to see and does it ruin the gun's look?
2. Does the gas run out fast where you will have to replace it in the field?
3. How bad is the kick on these guns?
4. What do I need to upgrade in this gun, and exactally how hard are the parts to find? (IE how long does it take?) Is the stock version of the gun a good gun to use without upgrades?

Please use dumbed down words though, I dont know any terminology for airsoft or classic guns.


And finally, one more question: What would you recommend more to a new user? An AEG or Classic? I really want the classic because of the sound and recoil.

[Texx]

There is a third choice on the market.

Area 51 (a resident retailer on Arnie's Airsoft) does airsoft modification to the Real Action Marker line of paintguns.

These guns rely on an internally stored CO2 tank and can be switched to a remote tank system as well. These guns eject shells upon firing, are full metal, have full auto and semi fire capability, and cost right around the same price as a metal bodied and lightly upgraded TM MP5. ($450 -$500_ I couldn't tell you what Area 51 charges for modification of the RAM MP5, but it is a viable option to an AEG.

On the second hand, in stock form, the RAM fires a .40/.43 caliber paintball or plastic pellet. There is currently a kit available to convert the MP5A5 into an SD and in addition to the current line of M4/M16 variants, there is a Glock 17 that was just released, and plans for an AK47.

The metal bodies used in the RAM line are Yick Fung (aka Classsic Army)...

Just another option aout there for ya.

[bigpepper23]

Hmm ok. I'll look into that.

[Nitrous]

Actually, I believe Area51 has stopped selling directly to the public, and now deals strictly with military/law enforcement. Alas, you will no longer be able to get your hands on an 'original' RAM gun. Also, the Glock project was cancelled, due to one of the test guns exploding.

[bigpepper23]

How long does an external gas tank last if you hold on full auto?

How long does an internal gas tank last if you hold on full lauto?

[Steamer]

One of these full auto gass guns sound like a nice second gun, but if you want to actually play Airsoft, you might want to think about an AEG.

I'm loving my ICS MP5 ver 3!

[Fox]

Why couldn't you play airsoft just as well with a Classic Peice like an Mp5? or a BAR? or a CAR 15? All those made by Jac/Ashai/etc.

Classic peice have just as much range, fps, rof, as AEGs, and in the most cases, more! Plus they can be easily adjusted to fit your purpose, by controling the amount of gas fed to the gun, by external rig. Also, in most cases the Classic guns have a much higher ROF, and have the ability to go to a higher FPS with out the cost of upgrading the entire internals of the gun, like an AEG.

Yes, AEG's are much more common, and parts are widely available, and magazines are too, unlike the gas guns. But recent rumors have popped up saying that after market companies (in specific, Killer Studios of Japan) are going to start to re-make the parts, and magazines for common classic guns, mainly the JAC M16/M4 varients. And possibly the Mp5 series, though I don't know much about it, it's just a rumor I've read while browsing some forums. I haven't been able to find a link to it yet.

But for the cost vs. reliability issue, in example if you were to go out an buy a TM Mp5, convert it to a navy, full metal, upgraded reliable to 350 FPS, or more/less depending, it will cost you about 600-700 not including gear prices. Were, say you find a JAC DX Model of an Mp5 navy, with 9 magazines, it will run you about the same amount, with an external rig. Depending on upgrades and such performed to the gun, and the amount of magazines, etc, which version you want, all the other things like that. Also, the magazines you can find readly now, not new, but in good condition. Plus there are many people out there in the state side to help you out if you run into a problem (I.e. Mags leaking gas.)

Not all guns require an external rig though, like said above. This is false. Alot of guns either have internal gas tank, or magazine gas tank, like found in todays common GBB/NBB pistols. Though these internal tanks are often very limited, to maybe one magazine for the mag tanks, or two to three magazines for the internal tanks. These internal tanks often can be filled up by the 12 gram one time use tanks found at wal-mart, or any hobby store for the most part. In example, the Youth Engineering one uses this method for an internal tank.

An external tank, for example if you get an external rig with a 6mm hose (common to classic guns for some reason) with a 20oz tank, maybe kept in a side mag drop, or some thing fitted to it (or on MOLLE II gear, a 100 round SAW magazine pouch) will probably last all day, if not its a quick change.

Also, you can up the ROF by using a wider hose, for example, I've heard of many classic airsofters converting to a 7mm hose to up the amount of gas fed from the tank. Though minor, it would be enough to noticable up your FPS supposively.

All this information was gathered from reading forums, and posts by people who own them, and ask questions about them. The world of classic airsoft has alot of gray areas, where some things aren't exactly known about some things. Because alot of the guns are so old, and such like that.

I've already posted alot of links for you, and those links will clear up all answers pretty much about classic airsoft, and modern airsoft. Please don't ask me, or any other member to hand you information, which alot of it is a gray area because none of us are recongized experts on the field of classic airsoft, or gas airsoft in general really. (Unlike dumborat, who, even though never admitted it, was the guru of GBB pistols.)


Cheers
Fox.

[bigpepper23]

You've helped a lot. I'll look for the answers for the rest of my questions on those forums, but while this one is still up I guess I could pop a question I've been thinking of here..

You said that on internal gas guns that they have magazine gas tanks. Is that gas inside each individual magazine? And if so, does that mean that I will be able to go ahead and fill up all the magazines with Co2, put them in my pouch, and I'm set? Or will that Co2 in the mag run out and I'll have to refill it again?

Dont bother answering if you dont feel like that, I'll post a thread on the classic forums, thanks for your time and help, Fox. Maybe when I (hopefully) get my gas gun, I'll play a game with you.

Cheers
bigP

[Kendodude]

sorry about giving you wrong information on the JAC guns since, like i said have had no experience with those kinds of guns. My interpretation of those guns was that they performed just like the GBB's in aspect of range and accuracy, so basically i did the wrong thing in trying to compare an AEG to a GBB since those are the only guns i've actually seen in action. Thankyou Foxtrot for correcting my information since you've risen my interest in purchasing one of those classic guns.

[bigpepper23]

Foxtrot set it all stright. I've also posted a list of questions on the classic forum, and hopefully I'll have my gun soon if they are all answered.

It will just be a pain to hunt it and all the parts down... ;)

[Steamer]

Hi Foxtrot
All great info, I guess it depends on how fat your wallet is. :)
Starting with an ICS MP5 ver3(full metal) can be less expensive than the TM. $250 + Full tune kit (for 400fps)= $400-425.

:beer:

[Fox]

Answering questions on this subject is fine. :)

Sorry I sounded a little mean, just over the past few weeks, my self, and a few other 'veterns' have been getting hit pretty hard by... well, to put it nicely, angry newbies.

Plus, this is a pretty orignal question, which I don't mind at all. Maybe the moderators could change the title of this post to better fit the use of the search button for future references.

There are two different types of internal gas feed for the classic airsoft guns, some might not have this any more due to the fact it has to be disabled to use the external rig.

The first type of internal feed is the one that you were thinking of. The magazine of the gun holds both the gas, and the BB's for it. I've never owned/operated a classic airsoft weapon for a long period of time, so I can't tell you how long the C02 will last inside the magazine, or how many rounds you will get off before it runs out. Common sense would tell me that 1 magazine of bb's would equal one magazine of gas, or at least I would do it that way for control purposes so you don't have variable FPS/Range, which, if installed, could affect your hop up.

The second type of internal feed, which I know is disabled on many guns to use the external rig, is through a built in tank inside the gun, or the stock of the gun (Depending, inside the stock of the gun is very rare, and I've only see it a couple of times.) This type of storage supposively, depending on magazine size, will last a couple of magazines. As I said above, I've never owned a classic gun before, especially one that required an internal feed like that. The one's i've looked at buying are either magazine fed, or external fed. (The guns I was specifically looking at were a Tec-9 machine pistol, and a Car-15 counter sniper version.)

Your best bet is going to try to contact one of the older classic airsoft members, who now sells a ton of classic airsoft guns as well. His name on www.classicairsoft.net is Darryl Zero, or some thing close to that, I can't exactly remember his name, sorry. But he also runs a small e-bay company by the name of raresoft, or something close to that. He, might not only have/can find the gun you want, with every thing you need, but can point you in the right direction, if not tell you about the differences, and the gain vs lose on the internal storage systems.

You mentioned shell ejecting guns early, and to help you out with this, some one did mention brass catchers from real-steel weapons. In all honesty, theres very few classic airsoft guns that use the shell ejecting system compared to all the different types of classics out there. The main company I know of that makes shell ejecting classics, goes by the name of kosuko (or some thing close! I'm Irish, not Japanese, hehe can't spell woth a damned either!)

I was looking at a Kosuko mini-uzi, which is very nice, but uses the shell ejecting system, and i'm not all about picking up my brass. Even with real-steel. I own a full size real-steel uzi, and after picking up a few 50 round magazines from it, it's a real pain in the ***. (If I can ever get it to shoot 50 rounds stright! LOL Its like 3 round burst, jams on the third round all the time!)

Basiclly.. Im drained on classic airsoft right now, I really don't know much else to tell you. This is all from just browsing casually and reading some arcticles in FPS magazine. Also doing a little digging into a few things here and there for my own purposes. (I'm still thinking about getting an FTC Galil! Really nice guns.. the only problem with FTC, falcon toy company, another classic maker, if you decide to get one, is it's nearly impossible to find magazines for ANY of their guns.)

To all AK Lovers like me, supposively FTC made a AK-74 model, but the only problem is, it's like the Ashai M40a1, RARE. They are supposively far, and few between at best. Probably not as rare as the Ashai M40a1, considering the last time I've heard, theres only 28 of those reported across the world, but that could be a lie.

Classic guns offer alot more options, and models the modern airsoft. There are so many different models, and types of classic guns out there, it would blow your mind. If you can think of it, theres normally a classic airsoft model of it some where, you just need to find it some where, which is the hard part.

Well, I hope that answers some more questions


Cheers
Fox

[Fox]

Originally posted by Steamer
Hi Foxtrot
All great info, I guess it depends on how fat your wallet is. :)
Starting with an ICS MP5 ver3(full metal) can be less expensive than the TM. $250 + Full tune kit (for 400fps)= $400-425.

:beer:

Not to double post mods, but need to reply to this.

Yes, it all depends on how much money you want to spend, but you also need to think about the quality of the guns.

In terms of cars for example, its your kia vs your BWM. The kia has a 10 year 100,000 mile warrenty, so which ever comes first, then your car dies. But with the BWM, it will keep running for 300, 400k miles before having any *major* problems. *Depends on how well you keep them maintained.

The same thing deals with airsoft, though you might think it. Your ICS Mp5, my guess with typical maintaince will last 100,000 rounds or so before tossing some thing major, like a gear, or a gear box, which costs about another couple hundred of so to fix normally. My RPK Died on me, due to stripping a gear, at about 90,000 rounds. Not too shabby for basic maintence.

Now, I've heard of classic airsoft guns with over 500,000 rounds through them, approching a million rounds through them, and only having to replace valves every once in a while, and recoil springs and such. 10$ here, 20$ not much, but can build up over time yes. Just like changing oil. Replace a hop up bucking here, a few valves here, a recoil spring there. Etc.

Also think of the quality metals used in the production of the guns, yes, the ICS Mp5 is 'full meta' but what type of metal is it really? Probably some zinc alloy. Where the JAC DX Models, which are all metal, are notorius for being made of out a stamped steel in alot of cases, in others, the rarer DX models, milled aluminum. I was looking at a JAC CAR-15 counter sniper model, with a milled aluminum reciever on it.

The quality, if your going to step up to par between the two, is so totally different between them you can't even compare them.


But, end of my little rant

Cheers
Fox

[Steamer]

Hi foxtrot,

I agree, and now I want one ;) might be awhile, but...

thanks

[bigpepper23]

I'm currently looking for a YE MP5A5. I was looking in google, and typed in YE MP5, which brought up these forums (http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37549&whichpage=1). This is the gun I'm after, and if anyone has any info on one, please PM me or email me (sleepyeyez3q7@yahoo.com).

Cheers
bigP

[bigpepper23]

And only four days left on the auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2232375755&category=135#ebayphotohosting). I'm waiting to purchase, wish me luck. And if you guys could look into this auction and give me your thoughts, that would be appreciated.

Wish me luck, I should have the gun (hopefully) in about four days. I'll be planning to put an AEG full metal body kit (which I'm informed works for the JAC) onto it, so if anyone could offer links to help me with that installment that would be great.

Wish me luck! :D Hopefully I'll be scrimming with the big dudes. Also, as it says the the auction, he installed something of brass inside that makes it sound loud. Cant wait.

Cheers, and thanks for all the help,
bigpepper23

[MB38x]

Here's (http://homepage.mac.com/mb38/mp5shooter.mpeg) a video I just found on my hard drive from a few years back. This is a GBB MP5, you can see it's regulated through the grip. Unfortunately, I don't have any more information about the video than that.

[bigpepper23]

Cant wait for mine...

[sfreconmavrick]

http://www.airsplat.com/P_467.htm

they arent hard to find. And this one is a maruzen. Also, not that expensive either. And at 300 fps, not that bad. I'd trust it for a secondary.

[MB38x]

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk//reviews/maruzen_mp5k/gbbmp5k.wmv

Found it on Arnie's Airsoft. there's a review there as well for that maruzen gun. Sorry about the bad quality and windows media garbage.

[Grease Man]

I think its odd how that gun, even though out of BB's, still dryfires at the end of the mag until the gas is out.

[bigpepper23]

I just bought the gun. Chaser (who I bought it from) threw it two other upgrades for $50, and now it shoots at 450 FPS. I'm so happy right now!

Also, the guns your looking at are not large SMGs or ARs. Their small gas blow backs to be used as sidearms, while mine is not and ment to be the primary weapon. Also, mine uses an external air source, so it will fire for much longer periods of time. I looked for my gun where you guys found the MP5k and no large SMGs or ARs were there.

This gun is not easy to find. I'm just glad I did.

Cheers, and thankyou for all the support.
bigpepper23




...lets see how my friend likes being shot with this...

[Sykosis]

Originally posted by Grease Man[iP]
I think its odd how that gun, even though out of BB's, still dryfires at the end of the mag until the gas is out.

Sorry for this "necropost". I was browsing the forums to kill some time, and came across the Jac M16 thread in Gas Guns.

Those of you with real steel knowledge, and knowledge of correct terminology for gun parts, correct me/back me up on this one.

Gas pistols that "lock up" after your last round is fired posess a small metal piece in the magazine (it is located on the left facing side of the magazine), that is visible when the plunger is at the top of the feed lip (when the mag is "empty", to put it simply). This metal piece moves in unison with the plunger. When the last shot is fired, this metal piece will make contact with the slide catch. When the slide blows back, the slide catch will shift upwards into the small crevice cut into the slide, and hold the slide back. Naturally, this prevents the gun from being fired until the slide is released.

SMGs like the MP5K and the Micro Uzi do not posess this little piece, or any part in the gun that would stop the bolt assembly from fully cycling; hence, the gun is ready to fire-as long as there is gas in the magazine.

[Captain ADD]

a regular GBB does that too if you simply hold down the slide release while you shoot

[Sykosis]

Originally posted by Captain ADD
a regular GBB does that too if you simply hold down the slide release while you shoot

Yep. You can also really beat the hell out of your gun doing that :P, especially a full auto pistol.