Rate of fire versus feet per second

[gmaximus]

This is (hopefully) a simple question. I'm planning out a gun to use for CQB. The limit where I'll be using it is 320 FPS. What I want to know is if it's possible to put more of an increase into the ROF than the FPS?

It's my understanding that using a more powerful motor and/or more powerful battery, but not a stiffer spring will result in more of an increase in the ROF than in the FPS, is that somewhat correct?

The logic being that since the less stiff spring is easy to compress, the powerful motor will whiz along at a faster rate (ROF) because it isn't as heavily impeded.

Wheras, a stronger spring would make the motor do more work (slower spring compression) but there is higher FPS because the spring releases more energy when it springs.

Does that make any sense? And would a higher ROF gun like I describe need to have upgraded gears and so on?

Thanks.

[Cobalt-Blue]

yes. a lighter spring vs a stronger current will increase your ROF- by virtue of less spring compression. I'd recommend looking into ways to speed up and reduce wear on your other parts as well.

[Serpent]

You have sound logic, a few more things to consider would be highspeed gears, teflon cylinder, and the lightest piston you can find (probably one of the polycarb ones).

[Newb101]

Depends how fast you want to go. If it was my gun I'd do this.

Stock spring.
Helical high-speed gears. *
Bushings.
Shims (duh).
Spring guide.
9.6v battery.


* I hear these are more reliable being the gear teeth have more
surface area to mesh. Also, I am taking about the helicals only
not the "All-Helical" with the piston, thats kinda overkill for me.

Then, if you want, a M100 spring to bring up to about 300-328 fps.
But this might kill RoF somewhat. But I wouldn't upgrade, just to be
nice to the enemy heh. Unless you have some 100ft stretches.

[gmaximus]

Thanks! Listing the specific parts like that helps a lot.

[Deviant]

GMAX,

If you truly want an incredible ROF even with a modest FPS reading:

Systema M100 or PDI 130% Spring
Metal Bushings
Reinforced Spring Guide (match version of mech box)
Systema High Speed Motor (match motor to version of mech)
Systema High Speed Gears (flat)
8.4V High mAh Battery

With the combination of the motor and gears, you CAN NOT use a 9.6V battery else you will fillet your piston (motor spins the lightweight gears faster than the piston can cycle when powered with 9.6V cause them to strip). I had this set-up in one of my AUG's then sold the set-up to a teammate for his AK Bullpup. The ROF is faster than ANYTHING I have seen or heard to date. Both the AK and my AUG chronoed around the 335-340 marker.

The motors are around $30-$40 while the spring, guide, and bushings are around $15-$20 each. The gears I would guess are around $40-$50 and the battery will vary on the mAh you get.

For what you are after....this is BY FAR the best possible set-up you can get and I can guarantee you the only problems you will have are BB expense (from throwing them out so damn fast) and lack of capacity...you will empty mags at an UNBELIEVABLE RATE!:D :cool: ;) It could double as a SAW and will shoot faster!

[gmaximus]

Ok, that brings up a couple more questions for me.

What is the difference between flat and helical gears?

What do you mean by "match version of mech box"?

[D_Man]

Helical gears have turned teeth on them, allowing greater surface area on gear-to-gear connection, and therefor better durability and speed.

When he says match to mech box, he meens get that specific part as it pertains to your mech box version. As you didn't list what gun you are using, find out what version of mech box it uses then when you buy those parts, get the ones for your mech box version.

[Nitrous]

I believe Helical gears are where the teeth are at an angle rather than straight.

When he said "match version of mechbox", he meant some parts are designed only for certain mechboxes. For example, a Version 2 Tappet Plate will NOT fit in a Version 3 mechbox.

[gmaximus]

Ah, gotcha. My gun is going to be an MP5K.

Thanks again.

[Fox]

if you REALLY want to squeeze the highest RoF you can...

Look at the ANGEL series of parts... supposively you can get up to 30 rounds per second with them.

[gmaximus]

That's just scary.

[Deviant]

The helical gears = more expense for both the gears and special modified counterpart (piston) to do the same job. To be honest...MOST helical gear use is in FTK (Full Tune Up Kits) because Systema makes a total internal conversion package for a set price.

I have used both and honestly.....found no difference except thinner wallet. If you properly have the internals lubed and shimmed....you have no problems.

Since you said MP5K....then you go with all V2 spring guide and long type motor. If you are really wanting to build up this particualr piece, I would further recommend an MP5 FTK M-100 and THEN the Systema Long Type High Speed Motor. THat will replace/reinforce pratically ALL your internals and you will have the same AMAZING speed! BE SURE TO STICK WITH 8.4V BATTERY.

Good luck and happy SPEED!:cool: ;)

[Secretagentman]

30rnds/sec with Angel? Hmm...I get that with Systema parts!
My M16 (now sold to a teammate) had all Systema internals and it fires 30/sec. Which is why it's now the team SAW. Since standards are completely useless and hicaps are next to useless it uses a electric wound CMag! :D

007...out

[Deviant]

No offense Secret....

but where is the realism in that? :confused: An assault rifle used as a support? :confused:

Lets hope at least, for the sake of realism, this player(s) DO NOT go out as if they were assaulting and use this Support Weapon as such?:rolleyes:

One thing that needs to be done to Airsoft, IMO, is for players to use their weapons as they would use real steel counterparts. This would make games MUCH MUCH MUCH better.

I am not jumping your case bro, please dont think that and you can use the gun however you want as it s yours, but I would hope that you would be the type to look for the most realism in a sport that is as realistic as you can get (equipment wise). ;)

[Deviant]

Nice signature.....

You might want to also check out 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; James 1:12; and Revelation 21:3-5. ;) :D

I more into the power reading!:cool: Its easy to get down in this life with all there is to face...its good to have a reinforcement tool to help me remember why I keep on keeping on.:)

[bnb5550]

i suggest getting a systema super high speed ftk, systema high speed motor, and 8.4v 3000mah batt

[Secretagentman]

Dev- oh no....no assault with it!!! I would not allow it even if she wanted to! :) It's a support rifle(for now) and is used as such. Though originally when it was still mine it was not intended to become a support weapon, but was being upgraded for a nice assault weapon and somehow it just came out with a super high ROF. Which made standards and hicaps useless. So when I sold it to her, she got a CMag and it became the team SAW only because nobody could afford a real SAW and it was already there....so it just sort of happend. I agree...I would prefer to see weapons used in a more realistic fashion. But since it happend and it's useful as a support weapon I'll let it go for now. Would you want to carry an M16 that fired that fast and use only standards or hicaps? ;) Currently it only has a 1J spring which will soon be changed to an M100 so we'll see how much the ROF falls off.
If you're wondering...internally:
Systema ProGear reinforced mechbox
Systema poly piston
Systema silent head kit
Systema Super Hi Torque gears
Systema oiless metal bushings
Systema metal shims
Systema spring guide
Systema 1J spring
Systema Area 1000 tappet plate
Systema nozzle
Systema Genuine motor
KM TN inner barrel for M16A2
And the largest contributing factor....9.6v 3000mah battery

Excellent passages...thanks! It does help to have reminders on occasion! :)

007...out

[Fox]

That quote was from WGC with an 8.4v battery not a 9.6v, for the angel parts.

Supposively, since they are ultra light, they can get a faster RoF then any other. But, they are not built to spec if you want anything above 360 ish FPS.

But for a stock gun, slapping an ANGEL piston, piston head, etc etc... in and using a 9.6v battery, it'd be pretty insane.