Gaurder Red Dot Scopes

[Soultek]

Ive tried airsoft players, arnies and searching here and i havent really found anyones opinion of Guarder Red Dot Scopes Right now im looking at the one that replicates the Aimpoint ML2 (im outfitting towards a Black Hawk Down delta look) and its fairly expensive, so i dont wanna buy it and find out its not very good. So if anyone has had one, if you could tell me good or bad experiences with it before i shell over the money. Thanks guys!

[ArmyHummer]

Guarder has exceptional quality type items. You wont regret it. And its sight, not scope. It doesnt magnify.
But the only thing else id consider, is getting the HurricanE model, as it comes with the ring, and for some reason i just like eit more with the rubber type cap sealer, and the flip up covers.

[Soultek]

Thanks for the reply armyhummer. Ive havent seen this HurricanE model in any of the searches ive done, could you send me a link. Thanks for you information on the sights :)


updated -- nvm found it

[Crossfire]

if you want you could get the G&P 30mm aimpoint replica (i think its the same as the hurricane one) from uncompany.com for $78. i have one and it is made out of metal i belive and feels very strong, though i havent field tested it yet. it has 4 brightness settings, not as many as other aimpoint replicas, but it gets the job done. one more thing, if you want a realistic BHD delta one you should get a ML style. If you want to do a setup from the real battle dont even get an aimpoint becasue they werent around in '93 i dont believe.

Delta

[Soultek]

Yeah, im trying to outfit towards the movies version of them and from looking at stills it seems to be the Aimpoint ML2. I wanna make a m733 that Sanderson? i think that was his name was carrying. Yes i know it wasnt really a m733 cause theres no real gun or whatever i dont wanna start an arguement i just mean that will be my base for my gun :P

[Crossfire]

Soultek,
if you want to make a weapon like Sandersons from BHD the movie, just use your CAR-15 (M733 in your case)(well in the movie he had an M4, but im sure you dont want to purchase a whole nother weapon just for that, but anyways), get whatever aimpoint you like (they didnt have ML2s in the movies, which have the little rubber piece holding the battery and sight addjustment caps together, they had the ML style that has the little wire), get a mount for the carry handle, a tac light (preferably with a pressure switch), a barrel mount for it and you should be good.

Delta

[Airborne_opz]

All of the Delta operators in the movie did in fact use the CAR-15, not the M4.

[Crossfire]

Airborne_opz, im not saying you are wrong about the movie having CAR-15s in it, but sanderson had an M4. take a long look at this thread, it might help:


http://www.airsoftohio.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1580

Delta

[Soultek]

Bah. i tried to avoid this type of argument by saying regarless of the actual gun carried in the movie or in the actuall battle i am going to outfit the m733 i will eventually have towards Sandersons gun in the movie

[Airborne_opz]

I watched the movie again and Sanderson's gun is not an M4. I'm not going to start any flame wars or anything, but if you look *very* close, you will see it's a CAR-15 by the guns design.

[DarkDeath]

I have the Gaurder red dot and its exactly as all other aimpoint replicas. I did notice that it is more glossier than the TGS red dot and the caps are not rubber like the TGS and the actual red dot is more sharper than the TGS

[Crossfire]

Airborne_opz, i dont want to start an argument either, but i have to set you on the right path. look VERY closely at his rifle next time you watch it, becasue the CAR-15 flash hider is right in front of the front sight, and the M4 isnt. i think some people were confused, just because his M4 DOESNT have the little grove for the M203 mount, doesnt mean its not an M4. his M4 is one of the earily ones, because the M4 came out about in 88' or so. i have asked an expert on it, and he says that that is an M4. i have also watched the movie way more times then i can remember (i think around 100 since last feb.), so i have paid a LOT of attention to it.

here, i hope this pic will help just a tad. i know its not from the movie or anything, its from some of our troops over in Iraqi. anyways, the barrel on top is an M16 barrel and on the bottom an M4A1. the way you can tell that they are the exact same length is by the bayonet, which are all the same size, so the barrel must be the same length after the front. this has to do with Sandersons rifle because his is an M4, it just doesnt have the removeable carry handle or the grove in the barrel for the M203 mount.

Delta

[Cobalt-Blue]

okay,
seriously this is largely moot point.

1- the predecessor to the M-4 was being evaluated, alongside with the development program of the Colt Command (m733) approximately at the same time- starting in the late eighties but not being pressed into service until after 1993. In Real steel, the Commando was rejected due to the shorter barrel's failure to cycle reliably enough for the military. that is not to say it didn't cycle properly, because it did, but in long term out in the field durability and reliability, the military requested colt to go with the 29 cm/14 inch barrel. This has to do with the trajectory and combustion characteristics of the 5.56mm NATO ss109 cartridge, after a time failing to produce enough energy to cycle properly. one could also argue the long term penetration and accuracy characteristics, but neither concerns are very relevant to either this discussion, nor the performance of a real steel carbine in CQC.

these minor technicalities are why several operators and soldiers at the battle of the black sea would have had a DIFFERENT gun called by the SAME NAME. both programs were in development at the time, and who else would be tasked to test the future SOCOM weapons? that's right spec ops forces. So actual photographs from somalia and the book will collectively refer to 1, 2 or even 10 different configurations of a developmentally similar weapon by the same name.

however the movie would have no reason to replicate that.

also as noted in the post Deltaguy67 referred to, the operators were outfitted by weapons manufacturers like athletes are by sporting goods manufacturers- so whose to sit here and say that Sanderson didn't simply ASK Colt/armalite to make him this newfangled commando with a slightly longer barrel? it would suit helicopter platformed precision fire a tad better than the 11 inch- though neither would provide one with Sniper level of accuracy, either from a stable platform or a moving one.
(but I will save the ballistics discussion for another flame war)

The movie producer (in this case Bruckheimer) hired qualified technical help- in this case Harry G Humphries- reknowned Spec operator turned tactical teacher via his company, Global Studies Group. www.gsgi.org

Who would have no reason to confound us purposely- his meat and potatoes is tactical training and consulting.

Also, having worked in film before, who is able to say with certainty that the weapons pool was all stocked with enough 100% replicas for every scene? a few m-4 barrels may be spotted as a result of necessity. movies NEVER have a 1 for 1 ratio of actors to weapons/ props- and in scenes where ppl are not shooting, they are likely to be entirely rubber casts of weapons.

finally heres a salient point I feel was missed in the previous thread-

"Keep in mind, Delta and Rangers were not the only soldiers on the ground that day. There were also Air Force Para-Jumpers, and Navy Seals on the ground.

With this being a known fact, it is quite possible that there were more than just one assault rifle on the battle field. Car-15's were recorded in the book. The book states on page 195 that Gary Gordon used a car-15 and another soldier described his use of the car-15 on page 138.

most of you fail to realize we have more than just the car-15, m727, and m733....which all look and have the same general functions.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

we have the
XM177E1 (M609)
XM177E2 (M629) This rifle is the "Colt Commando"

M16a1 Carbine (M653)
M16a2 Carbine (M723)

M4 Carbine (m720 and M727)
M4a1 Carbine (M927) ***THIS HAS REMOVABLE HANDLE***


COMMANDO ASSAULT RIFLE (CAR) (M733 and M735)
COMMANDO ASSAULT RIFLE (CAR) (M933 and M935)

NOTE :
Note: The M933/ M935 Commando is the same as the M733/ M735
models, with the difference being the carrying handle/ rear sight
can be removed to provide access to the Picatinny Rail Mounting
System. The Commando CAN NOT accept the M203 or M203A1 grenade
launcher.

Seeming the book says CAR-15, and the rifles did not have removable carry handles...this narrows it down to the m733 / Car-15. But like i stated earlier, due to the fact there were seals on the ground they may have already adopted the m727, m4 carbine but im not too sure about the history on this."

The reality is you could have either an m4/m4a1/ or an m733, then deck it out with handle mounted optics and have a close enough replica to those weapons from the movie to be instantly recognized and admired by your peers.

both would be suitably close to the real thing as to be barely distinguishable, and I seriously doubt anyone is going to jump down your throat for having a BHD style m4, or say an afghanistan style commando. enjoy

ps let's get back on topic- Guarder red dot scopes/sights.

[D_Man]

Boh-yah Cobalt, you nailed it right on the head.

Lets lay this tired debate to rest. From now on, Cobalt's above post should be the difinative standard of explaining the whole "m4 connection" in BHD.

Now, on to the Guarder scopes (yes SCOPE, if it has a tube and 2 lenses, reguardless of if it zooms, it is a scope) they are of fine quality from what I have seen. For use in airsoft, they are top notch :D

[Cobalt-Blue]

thanks d-man, you're too kind