m4a1 accessories

[Dimsun]

i was watching blackhawk down the other night and i notice one of guys was carrying the gun with the accesories i wanted. This was when the first blackhawk went down and the one guy climbed out of the helicopter, he was holding an m4a1 with a scope and flashlight, can anyone tell me what those two accesories names are?

[sf3pox1]

Real names are:

for scope: Aimpoint ML2
for light: Surefire Tactical Weapon Light for M4/AR15 etc

The price for the real versions of those are:
ML2 300-500, u can sometimes find them on Ebay for cheap.
Light: 220.00

u can buy replicas for way cheaper at WGC, Den, Redwolf or any other major airsoft retailer.

[Crossfire]

what sf3pox1 put is correct. also, if you want the sling the same, you will have to get a special tow strap that has a black stitch line down the middle, and some para card. i dont know exactally how to make it, but i am working on trying to figure it out.

ps, its not a scope, its a red dot sight.

[D_Man]

And just to be technical, its not an M4A1, its an M733. Note the shorter barrel and A2 style upper reciver. Here is a pic of said person with said gun:

[Dimsun]

excellent, thanks guys, and yeah i was watching the movie when i decided that i wanted those accessories, never got a good look at the gun itself, only got a good look at the adjustable stock and the thing si wanted.

[Crossfire]

sorry d_man, but that is an M4. in the movie, the operators used M4s like the one that Dimsun wants, all you would have to do is get a XM177E2, then put a M4A1 front outer barrel on it. then some of the other operators used CAR-15, (not that fake TM one), or what you call a M733. it is also called a Colt cammando. i dont know where they get the M733 from though.

[D_Man]

Delta guy:

I hate to start any kind of argument, but there where no "M4"s in BHD. Regaurdless of barrel length and all that, the biggest difference would be the M16A2 upper that all the Delta guys gun's in that movie had. This along with the shorter fore grip designates it as a CAR-15 (M733 for the airsoft world).

The biggest reason for this, in 1993 when the acctual event occurred, the M4 didn't exist. So kudos to the movie's military advisers for not using M4's in the movie.

I mean, look at that picture I posted. That is the same operator in the scene he was describing. The gun has a Fixed carry handel. Thats how ALL of them were in the movie. Also, none of them featured a fully lengthed barrel as the M4 has. They were either the 11 inch or slightly longer, ala the CAR-15 (m733). PLUS the fact that TM's whole premise behind releasing the M733 was that it is the "BHD gun", that was how they advertised it.

Now, if you have a M4 and want to put those accessories on it, fine, you can do that, no prob. But, in view of this comment:

one guy climbed out of the helicopter, he was holding an m4a1

That is incorrect, it was a CAR-15 (airsoft m733, Colt Commando, etc.).

[Fuzzman]

Wait a second.........(sorry to keep up this "argument" ;) ) I have watched that movie (Blackhawk Down) ate least 12 times, and I am pretty sure there are M4 Carbines in it (otherwise known as CAR-15s). Heres a link: Delta Force (http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/photos/bhd_gallery/pages/delta2.html) Isn't the upper gun an M4 :confused:

[Fuzzman]

Sorry about the picture quality in my link :D

[D_Man]

Those pictures arn't even from the actual movie. So, anything seen in them could be inaccurate. Those guns pictured there might not have even made it into the movie. No one could be for sure.

It be like, if one of those pictures featured me, in a yellow suit, playing piano, and then you assume that I was in BHD, wearing a yellow suit and playing piano :cool: It's just not true...

[Fuzzman]

Sorry D-Man, but I must disagree with you. Here's a link to the first picture of the gallery.(here (http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/photos/bhd_gallery/pages/OnSet_1.html) ). Look through them and you'll see ample proof that they are real pictures from Blackhawk Down. I'll give you an example. Here's a link to a picture of Eric Bana in his getup from that site (here (http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/photos/bhd_gallery/pages/bill%26kim%26eric.html) ) . I hope that this will settle the argument. :D

[Fuzzman]

Ummmm............................. Just in case you didn't know, Eric Bana is the guy on the far right. He plays "Hoot", and was most recently cast in "Hulk". Sorry if that sounded really stupid :cool:

[sf3pox1]

Originally posted by Fuzzman
Sorry D-Man, but I must disagree with you. Here's a link to the first picture of the gallery.(here (http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/photos/bhd_gallery/pages/OnSet_1.html) ). Look through them and you'll see ample proof that they are real pictures from Blackhawk Down. I'll give you an example. Here's a link to a picture of Eric Bana in his getup from that site (here (http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/photos/bhd_gallery/pages/bill%26kim%26eric.html) ) . I hope that this will settle the argument. :D

I think he meant those are not pictures FROM the movie itself. Not pictures taken on the set of BHD. The desert painted weapon the guys has in the link above is never shown in the movie BHD. That site we keep linking to here are all photos taken while making BHD, and not nessacarily (spelled wrong) ALL of those guns u see there are shown in footage, THUS making them not in the movie.

So thus, I need to back up D_Man here.
He is correct in saying there are no "M4's" in BHD.



:D

[sf3pox1]

Originally posted by sf3pox1
Real names are:

for scope: Aimpoint ML2

Originally posted by deltaguy67
ps, its not a scope, its a red dot sight.
Originally posted by Texx
First off, They are Red Dot Scopes, not sights, Red Dot sights have one lens. If it is a tube, it is a scope. Plain and simple.
Thank you Texx. I was pondering going into that it has to lenses and also HAS A POWER, like all scopes (1x) which no one thinks of, thus Making it a scope as opposed to a "sight"

:p

[Fuzzman]

sf3pox1, thanx for the clarity :)

[D_Man]

sf3pox1 is right, I ment those pics are not from the MOVIE itself, only from the set. Obviously, you didn't understand my frail attempt at hillarity with the short analogy I made :D

From what I have seen, and disscussed on other forums, many times, there were no "M4"s (removable carry handle, longer barrel) in the movie. There were many CAR-15s however, which is good, because its historicly accurate :)

[Crossfire]

D-man, there was a M4A1 in the movie. watch the movie at the begining when the Black Hawk picks up hoot out on the beach. if you have it on dvd, pause it when the guy playing Cpt. Steele point at hoots m4 in the barracks, and you can see the removable carry handle.

buy the way, M4s have been around since vietnam, they just werent very popular.

and also, the Aimpoints in the movie arent ML2, the are just ML, because the ML2s werent even around then, they are just coming in the past 2 years i would say

delta

[Crossfire]

im almost positive that the rifle that we are origanily talking about is a M4.
http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/photos/bhd_gallery/pages/delta3.html

look at the guys rifle on the left. that IS NOT a CAR 15 barrel, it is a regular M4 barrel. just because it doesnt have a removable carry handle doesnt make it not an M4. this is one of the M4 varients before the interface was created.

delta

[Tripod]

that doesn't make it an M4A1, and M4A1 has a removable carry handle.

And didn't we already establish the fact that those aren't pictures from the movie? They are just pictures of the actors and stuff on the set

[Tripod]

Is there any chance that some M4s were used? If I'm not mistaken, the M4 has no detachable carry handle....

http://labyrinth.sof2files.com/Pics/m4.jpg

And I'm a bit confused, I can't find anything on a real gun called the M733... BTW D_Man the gun in that picture yuo supplied looks like it has the longer M4 barrel...

The closest I got to the M733 Commando was the CAR15 Commando, or M117 http://world.guns.ru/assault/as50-e.htm

And isn't this the CAR15???
http://world.guns.ru/assault/car15.jpg

All this M16 crap is so confusing, can we all agree on that??

Can anyone tell me the year of the actual Black Hawk Down incident? I can't remember and I can't find anything on a search.

And if you're going to flame me for being wrong, I want pictures and links, or any other kind of proof thats not from your own words.....

[Fuzzman]

Tripod,
On the M733 box it says "Battle of the Black Sea, 1993, Somalia". I think that is the battle they made Blackhawk Down about. So, the answer to you question is 1993. Hope that helps.

[DeltaSniper]

As far as the weapons being car 15s in the actual event, that is simply a generaliztion.
People use CAR 15 to generalize for folding stock colt variants that arent m4s... the XM177e2 is often called a CAR 15 too. I beleive it was simply the writer calling it that. heck, the soldiers with them might have even called them that.

heres the thing about the military.... I would say at all of them are subject to misconceptions. Just because they handle the stuff, doesnt mean they know EVERYTHING about it. Im only an army cadet, but i am exposed to many enlisted soldiers, and my fair share of officers. sometimes whne you hear them talk about stuff.... theyre arent fully right on the names, numbers etc etc.

example... you know how many different figures ive heard for the maxium ranger on an m16a2?? this from a lieutenant colonel and a master sergeant (now a sergeant major.) theres what the fm says and what they say.
I had a friend whos an apache mechanic try and tell me about the weapons on it... well.. weapons werent his area... the mechanics of the chopper were. I can say for a fact several of the things he said arent true.
now maybe this is just these individuals, but the point im making is that all service memebers arent encylopedias of everything military, even their own equipment on occasion. They know how to use it well, they know how to maintain it and make it work... but they arent always genuins on its history and all of its secs.

Texx is absoutely correct about the movie not being 100 percent accurate, and things being combined, altered, etc. its a film.. its menat ot fit in 2.5 hours or whatever.. its meant to entertain.

Real life doesnt always make for a good movie. Example that i had refered to me by now Master Sergeant Matt Eversman. He is still in the army, now works in pennsylvania at carlisle barracks as an ops NCO. I had the oppurtunity to meet him, and hear him give a speech about the battle of the black see and the movie.

PFC Blackburn falling from the chopper was said to be caused by an RPG? Well, Sergeant Eversman says no one recalls that happenening.
What he feels was more contributing was that blackburn had a huge load.... he was younger then i am and rushing into combat. It happens. But how would they make it look sensical, him simply falling. they added to it.

When Staff Sergeant Eversman ran out to turn the strobe back on and toss it onto the roof for the airstrikes....to quote MSG Eversman.. "yeah... that wasnt me..." it was pfc Joe schmoe, a forward observer with the rangers.

Looking through the pictures cited, all i see are M733s or whatever were calling them i dont see a single detachable carry handle. ive yet to see an m4 without one myself. Though heres one thing to consider. Socom guys really dont go through regular supply channels. i believe the quote in the book was "The delta operators were outfitted by gun manufacturers like athletes are outfitted by nike" if you simply look at pics of our socom guys, youll see proof of this.

I hope i cleared some conceptions up about the military and weapons and the likes, based on my limited knowledge.

[Ganner]

keep in mind, Delta and Rangers were not the only soldiers on the ground that day. There were also Air Force Para-Jumpers, and Navy Seals on the ground.

With this being a known fact, it is quite possible that there were more than just one assault rifle on the battle field. Car-15's were recorded in the book. The book states on page 195 that Gary Gordon used a car-15 and another soldier described his use of the car-15 on page 138.

most of you fail to realize we have more than just the car-15, m727, and m733....which all look and have the same general functions.

Feel free to correct me if im wrong.

we have the
XM177E1 (M609)
XM177E2 (M629) This rifle is the "Colt Commando"

M16a1 Carbine (M653)
M16a2 Carbine (M723)

M4 Carbine (m720 and M727)
M4a1 Carbine (M927) ***THIS HAS REMOVABLE HANDLE***


COMMANDO ASSAULT RIFLE (CAR) (M733 and M735)
COMMANDO ASSAULT RIFLE (CAR) (M933 and M935)

NOTE :
Note: The M933/ M935 Commando is the same as the M733/ M735
models, with the difference being the carrying handle/ rear sight
can be removed to provide access to the Picatinny Rail Mounting
System. The Commando CAN NOT accept the M203 or M203A1 grenade
launcher.

Seeming the book says CAR-15, and the rifles did not have removable carry handles...this narrows it down to the m733 / Car-15. But like i stated earlier, due to the fact there were seals on the ground they may have already adopted the m727, m4 carbine but im not too sure about the history on this.

[Fuzzman]

Wait............ am I misunderstanding you, or did you just say you know one of Eric Bana's family members? Cool.

[DeltaSniper]

the point im making is they probably werent real CAR15s... CAR is a generaliztion people make the way i see it. It could very well be exactly as you say, and would almost make sense, if there were several weapons on the field that day.

im well aware of the presence of both airforce pjs, and seals, like petty offficer john gay. I did not say they werent there, though i didnt really mention them. being an army guy, i am more exposed to the army side of it which, lest we forget, was the majority of the forces.

I read the book long before the movie was even announced, because i knew that in some way i was going to the army, probably through ROTC (regret it.... PM me sometime if you want to know) and at the time it was on the reading list for cadets at USMA. Being the nerd for this sorta stuff i am, i checked it out.

[D_Man]

Originally posted by Ganner
I know the guy that Eric Bana played's son.

Bana's character "Hoot" didn't exist, he was a made up character whos actions were the combination of several people who were really there.

However, there was a CAG guy with the last name last name Hooten there. Is that who you mean? Otherwise, this friend of yours is handing you a load of tripe.