No YouTube Videos

[Evil Head]

I understand that there are plenty of fun things to share on YouTube. Now and then a good video pops up that's worth sharing. In moderation, these videos can give us a laugh and break up the day to day monotony.

Here's is where we draw the line. Any video that does not promote airsoft in a positive way is not permitted. We do not want AO to be the source for things involving airsoft stupidity.

This means:

No "look at this stupid video" posts.

Understand? Anyone can go to YouTube anytime and find such videos with ease. You do not need to start an entire thread dedicated to such crap. If you want to watch these videos and support those idiots by boosting their hit counts, then do it on YouTube. Do not post them here. The next step will be deleting the links and handing out infractions.

[Spades]

THANK YOU!!! i have been getting really sick of all these stupid videos being posted.

[Miyagi]

Applause!!!!!!!!

[browning]

Hmm, I pushed for this kind of thing about five months ago and it was apparently already made a rule for Airsoft Ohio by Locutus as of the 21st of February, so this is nothing new.

http://www.airsoftohio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13024

[Evil Head]

Browning,
I was going to mention past discussions about this. Thanks for finding that post. It will help people remember.

[browning]

Browning,
I was going to mention past discussions about this. Thanks for finding that post. It will help people remember.

Also before you continue, I would like to point out from that thread I started nearly five months ago that you took a stance almost exactly opposite of what you are telling the community now...

I don't know to which videos your are refering, but I most recently posted video of someone having an airsoft BB surgically removed from their head. It may serve as a lesson to some who think it's funny to shoot someone at close range with a high FPS. As to the post where people are shooting their LCD monitors with an airsoft gun, yes this is pointless and serves no purpose. I think this sort of attitude torward restricting ones freedom to post what they want is heading down the wrong path. This is a public forum and players in good standing have the right to post what they want within the set guidelines. Although, I am in favor of warning those who continue to post unrelated and "Jackass" style videos.

So now you are restricting if not getting rid of the same exact "freedom" that you thought all forum members should be granted? You even stated that you were in favor of allowing videos of informational/educational things dealing with airsoft, but now you want to ban those too? That is quite hypocritical of you.

Something makes me think that ever since you took on the title of "Moderator" you are feeling some sort of power struggle and need to step into matters that could have been easily resolved through an account suspension of said members in violation of the rule that Locutus put into effect regarding stupid and pointless Youtube videos back in February.

[Rctaylor]

Any video that does not promote airsoft in a positive way is not permitted.

Read his post carefully, Browning.

[British]

So now you are restricting if not getting rid of the same exact "freedom" that you thought all forum members should be granted? You even stated that you were in favor of allowing videos of informational/educational things dealing with airsoft, but now you want to ban those too? That is quite hypocritical of you.

Browning if you read the first post in this thread you will see this.

Any video that does not promote airsoft in a positive way is not permitted.

I don't think that rule prevents all airsoft videos from being put up. I think it just prevents the dumb ones that serve no point from being put on this forum. Peoples opinons change. What he said 5 months ago can be different from what he is saying now.

edit: before you all start telling me that Rctaylor already said this. I was typing this when that was put up.

[browning]

Read his post carefully, Browning.

And before he disagreed with complete and all out moderation on videos from Youtube...now he wants to have 100% moderation of all videos from Youtube. Who the hell is he (Evil Head) to decide what is considered stupid and what isn't? Everyone perceives things differently and just because one moderator believes that a video is completely stupid and worthless does not mean that the video is seen as stupid in the eyes of other members.

[British]

He disagreed with the moderation of videos when there aren't any guidlines restricting it. He never said that everyone should run free. And I belive that we voted (in a way) to chose moderators, thus giving them the power to decide what should, and shouldn't be on our boards.

[Blarney]

The restriction of posting videos on this website, with the intent to block out the idiocies and atrocities of normal people getting ahold of Kmart springers, is something that shouldnt be blocked.

Theres several parts to this theory. AO, for one, is not a website that agrees with the statements and actions made by those that enjoy being "gangsta" and "superfly", what have you...AO members though, can have a laugh at people acting like fools.

Evil Head's initial statements are something of a standard, allow the posting, but dont be so ignorant and attention grabbing when you post them. Relate something about the movie or have something of value to warn against such behavior. I do believe that it was wrong of Evil Head, and the administrative staff to set a restrictive block on such postings.

I am firmly against the "LOL< WTF BBQ?" posting of videos with little children shooting a neighbors cat, but I dont believe that such videos need be restricted.

We need to look at the facts here people, Airsoft is seen as a small time, cash flowing operation in the eyes of Dicks, and Walmart, they arent out there to promote safety (only enough to avoid lawsuits), their out there to make cash. Airosft Arms is out there to enhance the experience. Thats why 15 year olds with Cyberguns are predominantly on Youtube, and by posting them here, it sends a firm reminder to players how not to act, and to think about the legal aspect of maintaining our sport. England almost lost it, and the US has come close on several occasions.

Restricting the posts wont solve anything, its the means by which you utilize the video to teach and prevent that counts. Do not restrict the means to an end, it wont go away, solve the problem at the source. The irresponsible parents, the irresponsible stores, and the inability of local legislature to provide firm and fair guidelines of airsofting and the general, ignorant public.

[browning]

He disagreed with the moderation of videos when there aren't any guidlines restricting it. He never said that everyone should run free. And I belive that we voted (in a way) to chose moderators, thus giving them the power to decide what should, and shouldn't be on our boards.

What, a whole fifteen members voted on who should be a moderator? There are 2,667 members on this site. We are looking at less than 1% of this forum deciding who should even become a moderator. I do not see how in any way that fifteen members deciding who becomes a moderator automatically makes it a mandate from the members of this forum for the moderators to automatically decide what we do and don't want to see on the boards.

The whole definition of a "moderator" has been lost through this forum. Moderators are supposed to be here to keep it civil, not push across their own agendas on what they think is right or wrong or policy of this website. Administrators are there for deciding on policy and the direction in which this site goes, not the moderating team.

[vbtb110]

He disagreed with the moderation of videos when there aren't any guidlines restricting it. He never said that everyone should run free. And I belive that we voted (in a way) to chose moderators, thus giving them the power to decide what should, and shouldn't be on our boards.


For what it's worth, I don't remember an active moderator vote. Just suggestions from people.


Onto the Youtube topic, I am with browning and Blarney on this one. I think that an outright ban on these videos solves nothing. Watching them will not make them occur more frequently, or get them famous, or anything. I believe that we need to lead by example, by pointing out flaws in said videos that have been posted, not just banning them outright. Yes I think they are stupid, but I still believe that people should have the right to post them. Worst comes to worst, you just lock the thread if things go south.

[Revan]

Is there any way we could do a poll on banning youtube videos?

[Jimbo]

Here is Locotus' policy decision on this subject
This is a privately owned site, "freedom of speech" does not apply here. What is and what is not allowed to be posted here is completely up to the admins and moderators. I am suprised that his isn't obvious to you by now, as there are all kinds of things that are not allowed to be posted on AO.

From now on, videos portraying people using airsoft in an irresponsible manner will be immediately deleted and the poster will be warned. Please report and posts that contain such material using the report icon.

Thanks.

So it is in fact Evil Head's duty to delete such threads under the mantle of responsibility that comes with being a moderator.

EDIT: Text Removed

[Red]

So, why do we care this much either way?

Freedom just to say "We have the freedom to post retarded airsoft videos" isn't that great of a freedom. What a moderator or admin, or any staff member of the AO website has the final say on THIS website (And they're almost ALWAYS in the best interest of the community). Who cares if Evil Head changed his mind? Maybe becoming a moderator made him see that videos like this are a pain in the *** AND neck.

When some, maybe most of us were new to the sport when we saw the guns at Dicks sporting goods or Galyans, or at Walmart, we thought "Oh, cool!". Now we "look down" upon such things like that. Changing our minds ISN'T such a horrible thing - After all, freedom of thought and choice ARE important freedoms and rights.

So...Who cares? I personally don't give a flying Cybergun (Rats ***?) if they're restricted or not. If you want to laugh at idiots, go search on youtube, as another has stated. If you want to promote airsoft, read this forum and become an active, supporting member.

Otherwise, honestly..SHUT YER YAPS! It's not that big of a deal.

[Shifty]

Alright Browning, for the record, the community gave ME ideas on who should be a moderator. He wasn't voted in, I promoted him.

Moderators have no agenda other than to shield the sport from harm via the media and idiots. This is a public message board that is easily read by any shmuck with a computer (or reporters, police, lawyers, etc etc), and as such, we (meaning the community, not just moderators) have a responsibility to promote the sport in a positive, safe manner. Most of the airsoft crap (and I DO mean crap) on Youtube was made by teenagers who obviously don't get enough attention at home, and as such feel the need to post random videos about intellectually lacking events that occur in their small lives.

Yeah, his opinion might have changed in the last month. There are two things that are constant in the universe: Change and death. You can only fight either of them for so long. EVERYONE without exception is a hypocrite at one point or another. The label itself is too often used by imbecile's to describe something they cannot comprehend.

I was not consulted before he made this rule, but I do support him in his decision. It was not long ago that I was debating banning you for being a tool, so you are not without your faults. If you do not want to be part of this community, feel free to leave, nobody is keeping you here.

-Loki

[TheBanker]

If disallowing certain airsoft videos on AO meant that our access to such videos would be severely limited, I might agree that the rule is a bit harsh. However, "stupid" airsoft videos are still readily available to anyone who wants to see them, just not AO.

Furthermore, having the power to moderate videos on AO is no different than having the power to moderate text. If someone posts text that is vulgar, profane, or criminal, it is most certainly a moderator's right to disallow such text. Videos are no different.

I completely support Evil Head's new rule. If you think I only support him because he's a fellow moderator, then...well there's probably nothing I can say that make you think otherwise.

[Gjorndian]

Nothing against you Browning but with all due respect to everyone speaking on this forum...Loki and them do have the ability to stop whatever video's are being posted. It is a private community web board....just like you cannot post up Nude or Pornographic videos on You Tube...you wouldn't want a new person who thinks You Tube is a positive community to view that and think wrongly of it would you?

As for freedom of speech..

The dictionary Defines "Free Speech" as:

free speech
The right to express any opinion in public without censorship or restraint by the government.

Technically...your rights are not being infringed upon. The government isn't stopping you from expressing yourself, the moderators and the administrators on this board are.

They have every right to.

Freedom of Speech is the act of expressing yourself WITHOUT putting bar on someone else rights. (I.E. Cussing at a local football game when your around young ones and parents get upset and they ask you to leave.)

Along with that being stated...although no one technically "voted" for Evil Head to become a moderator he was promoted by a higher up...not because Evil Head was brown nosing or giving any sort of compensation, but because the members of this community feel as though he would become a very admirable and responsible person with the new rights he was givin.

So all in all and as a closing:

No one's rights were being infringed upon via the government, personal endeavors or any other such things.

Just like promotions can occur at work, in the military, on police forces...even at Martial Arts...the experience you have gained and the knowledge you have provided/acquired...along with the ability to not only provide the information, but prove to your (fellow co-workers, teammates, squad...ect..ect..) that you have the ability to take on more responsibility and be a positive outlook...these were brought to Loki's attention and he felt that because the community on this webforum felt Evil Head was responsible...why should he feel any differently? Thus..the promotion was achieved.

I'm sure the outlook would have been different if Evil Head would have never been mentioned at all...or if he was viewed on negatively...


Here on the forums we don't want a new guy joining only to view a negative video that was posted and to see us flaming the video or people in it...are we any better than those who do it on youtube as it is? We have enough trouble keeping our own new comers in check on HERE...let alone on another website.

- Tim

[Locutus]

Who the hell is he (Evil Head) to decide what is considered stupid and what isn't?

Who the hell is Evil Head to decide?!? Evil Head is a moderator, appointed by the admins of this site. As a moderator, he MODERATES content. That's who he is.

As previously pointed out, this isn't a "new rule" made by Evil Head, it's simply a restatement of a previously established rule. There is no need for a "youtube video poll" or any other such nonsense, as this has already been decided.

[Texx]

I would usually think - "when will people learn" as being a rhetorical question that has become quite common. Unfortunately, "people" don't learn because they are stupid.

[1stairsoft]

I know that you guys have told people before that they are not allowed to post videos but I really dont understand why you guys get so upset about it. I say just let the stupid people that dont listen post their stupid videos and then all you guys have to go is ignore it. Its really not that hard to not click on a thread. And if you really cant resist clicking on it then just give them bad rep so they will finally leave.

[Titan]

But having those videos on our site does not make us look very mature and responsible as airsofters. You have to realize that there is a larger community at play here. This forum can be accessed by anyone on the internet, we have to think what the people will see when they first visit this site. What if your parents were going around looking at airsoft sites o determine if you should play. If they saw a site of many mature responsible players the chances of them allowing you to play is better. Lets say instead they come to a site and there a a bunch of posts with youtube videos of irresponsible players, they may not think that you should play so much then.

Personally I like AO over the other forums I frequent, because it is the cleanest, the friendliest, and frankly the most mature, I have been on ASR, I have been on Arnies, I am on ASC, and none of them are like AO. On Arnies and ASR the mods seem more distant and don't usually post around with the members offering advice in MY experiences. Around here though I see the mods more actively posting and participating in the community and they usually don't get up on their high horse unless its necessary. I think this is a case where it is. This has to do with the reputation of our site, what visitors think, and what we have to sift through. I fully support this ban, because we do not need to give these guys the attention, because that is just what they want.

[Evil Head]

Browning,
Sounds like a personal attack on me. Calling me "hypocrital" is a perosanl attack considering I'm now doing the job you requested. Even if I disagreed with a set policy of this site I would still be obligated to enforce it. My first post of this thread called for a ban of "Any video that does not promote airsoft in a positive way ". Does not mean a 100% ban. You need to calm down. You are way out of line.

I'm actually real sad right now that members of this community I respected are now attacking me. Please read that past post again. You were advocating the ban of all you tube videos. I was dissgreeing with a ban of all you tube videos. I did agree to the limitation of "Jackass style videos". Those where people were" shooting their monitors with airsoft guns".

http://www.airsoftohio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13024
In this thread, please do not confuse my post with Audio Murphy's. We share an avatar.

Wow, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Texx]

I think an outright ban on all videos would be far easier to enforce. Remember, you are making the ban subjective. As seen many times on this site and others, requiring people to use their judgement as to what is "acceptable" seems to be a huge liability for them.

If you don't understand the necessity for this policy, its equally possible you simply don't have an understanding or respect for the responsibilites airsofters face to keep their hobby safe.

--> I will now use an example for the purposes of making a point. <--

I think its funny watching videos of skateboarders smash their crotch on hand rails. But if the purpose of your forums is to help persuade the public that your hobby is safe and that the hobbyists are safety minded, then posting videos of a skateboarder being injured while trespassing on private property is not exactly consistent with a message of responsibility and safety, is it?

<-- The example has concluded. Thank you. -->


Wow, that example perfectly illustrates how keeping a consistent message of safety and responsibility is important. I now understand how promoting a certain message is important and how simply posting something contrary to that message could be construed as endorsing that type of behavior.

--or--

Wow, that example was vague and completely unrelated. It was also a waste of my time when I could be looking at that shiny thing over there....hmmmmm, shiny thing...

[Titan]

I don't think all videos should be banned, what about AO sanctioned events? I think we should at least be able to post videos of ourselves playing safely and responsibly. If someone takes the time and risk to film a safe, organized, sanctioned event I think they should be able to post the video.

[Evil Head]

Any video that does not represent airsoft in a positive way will have it's links deleted


That is it in it's simplest form. If you do not understand what that means, then don't post video links. End of discussion.

[debsairsoft]

Well you see Evil Head, I am really sad too. I posted the pizza airsoft video, simply because I found it extremely disturbing that someone made a video like this, especially when a member of my family at one time delivered pizzas part-time. It is a high risk job, that had me worried all the time, that is why I found it so offensive. You did your job well, as you should, and removed the link and closed the thread. Then you did your job well as moderator again, and removed the links and closed the thread on Big Clips post. Then you opened the thread on NO YOU TUBE videos which is great. Yet then it became humiliating as you did not close this thread. I think you got your point across with three posts. I am sorry I posted that video, I do agree with what you say about promoting airsoft in a positive way. But you see, something can be done as a community about these videos. That video was not from You Tube, and members of this forum could have gone to the video and marked it as Inappropriate. I joined in January, and saw many videos posted, so I am sorry I did not know this was mentioned in Feb. I have led hundreds of my customers to this site, for the simple reason you promote safety and responsibility, and to give them the opportunity to learn from the veterans of this board. I myself though, did not post for four months after becoming a member for fear of being mocked or humiliated for something I might say. There appears to be a lot of bashing and complaining that goes on here. I mean come on, 8 pages on the Al-Najaf event! I am sure it is a huge job to organize an event. On this note, I would also like to respond to the quote from TEXX. "People don't learn because they are stupid." Sorry TEXX, I am FAR from stupid. Nobody is perfect. I appreciate all the knowledge I have gained from all of you on this site. But at this time, if you don't mind, I would like to do a voluntary ban of myself from this site. If you would, if possible, please remove all my posts as if I was never a member of this forum.
Thank you,
Deb

[Evil Head]

Thread closed