Problems feeling hits

[sehret2010]

My friends and I enjoy playing some classic CTF along with some other variations, but we always seem to run into a problem when it comes to the flag-carrier:

They run. Thus, they cannot feel any BBs hitting them (to call themselves out & drop the flag) for a variety of factors, unless the shooter is point blank, which is just plain dangerous.

What we've come up with is they can't feel being hit because of adrenaline, movement of clothes acts as a shock absorber, and many times the flag carrier is running in the same direction as the BBs are flying (meaning much less energy transfer to the body = less/no sting). Also, you can't really rely on hearing a BB hitting you because of wind from running and whatnot.

Anyone have any suggestions how to still be able to play fast paced games like CTF, but still being able to keep it calm enough to feel (or at least hear) hits?

[Sidd]

1. what kind of guns do you use?

2. aim for the head

[sehret2010]

Most have CO2 pistols firing 350-400 FPS, I have TM G3-SG1 firing at 385 fps.
The rest have springers for now (but not feeling those isn't what I was really talking about).

And maybe I'm just a horrible marksman, but I think it's somewhat difficult to to hit a relatively small, erratically moving tarket with airsoft guns at any sort of range (even 30-40 ft.). I wholeheartedly agree though, they'd definitely feel headshots haha.

[jeffdk06]

Maybe have the flag carrier wear just a T-Shirt instead of a coat or what not? that would make it hard to NOT notice a hit, you would just have to be careful to avoid close range hits.
Jeff

[Dante]

Sidd you should know this by now, you dont shoot for the head unless its the only thing showing.

you could try limiting the flag carrier to only walking or a slow jog. this would increase the need for protection around the carrier and it adds a twist to the game where tactics come more into play. thats the only thing i can think of, save taping a water balloon to their back as a target. one shot and the guy is wet.

[TheBanker]

Yeah, this is a definitely a problem with airsoft, and I have yet to find a practical solution.

[Atomic]

I am not so sure that not feeling them is the problem. I think that running definitely decreases your ability to feel shots, it's just sometimes they don't register for a couple seconds. I have had this happen to me, and I just call myself out, even if it is 5 seconds later, and say "hey, I think you got me."

[sehret2010]

Slowing the game down would be fine with me, I love the tactics and planning. Unfortunately, some of my friends' attention spans resemble that of a gnat's, and they are all about the fast paced run 'n gun CTF.

Thanks for the input though, maybe something like the water balloon idea could work.

[Lutenit_chihuahua]

actually I was at dunhams just a week ago and they sell little paintballs used for airsoft guns maybe u could use those that way there is no arguements over whether he was hit.

but I have just started airsoft so I dont know if they jam or anything.

[British]

NEVER put those in your gun. 1. it will void the warrenty on most guns. 2. it will jam the gun. and 3. this is airsoft. not paintball.

[Lutenit_chihuahua]

ok. like I said I'm a noob to airsoft so it was just a suggestion. but thanks for telling me so now I won't buy any.

[Snake Eyes]

While this can be a problem, most people that have been playing airsoft for a long time know there is a distinct sound that you will hear when the BB hits you. Listen for that. If you play with trustworthy people, and everyone plays by the rule "If in doubt, call yourself out", you should be fine.

[Evanish]

This is when the trust of your other team mates around you comes in play. A true sport would tell the runner they have been hit. We always stress the importance of calling hits before each game and have never had a problem. I myself have been hit but not known but a team mat let me know which I raised my hand and called "out." No sport is fun when you cheat.

[Sidd]

If worst comes to worst shoot the guy again.

and it he cheat habitually dont invite him back to play

[sehret2010]

We have only had problems when people are running because they literally don't feel or hear the hit, I wouldn't say anyone is deliberately cheating.

Having teammates help out is a great idea, I will definitely suggest it next time we play. If I as the shooter can see the BBs hitting and falling, I'm sure a teammate could as well.

[Sidd]

I ask before

what kind of guns are you using

if you are just using cheap walmart style gun then i am surprise you can feel the hit at all, but if you are blasting some one with an upgraded AEG and they are saying they cant feel it then my friend they are a liar and a cheater

[Tricky]

He said previous in thread Most have CO2 pistols firing 350-400 FPS, He TM G3-SG1 firing at 385 fps.

[Sidd]

Well if you guns are really shooting 350-400 then i dont see a reason why they wont feel it.

the rule I have always used was "keep shooting till they put their hands up,yell Hit , or you see a red rag"

also instead of body shots maybe tray legs or arms since they are less likely to have bulking gear

[sehret2010]

C'mon Sidd, if we're mostly only playing with CO2 pistols, do you really think we have a ton of gear? At most, they might be wearing a camo jacket. But I do see your point.

I really don't think anyone is deliberately cheating though. With the adrenaline rush, unless the shooter is less than ~40ft away, even at 400fps, it's quite possible to not feel the hit (see above posts).

We could just make everyone play naked. Cups optional. That would solve the problems haha...

[TheBanker]

Yeah, I think it's legitimate to keep shooting until they feel it, as long as you're not doing it maliciously.

For example, in Blind Fury 3, a guy was yelling, in my direction, to call hits. Later I realized he was talking to me, at which time I discussed it with him and found out he had only fired one shot at me. -sigh- He said he saw it bounce off a mag pouch, so that's probably why I didn't feel it. He could have saved himself the stress, and me the apology, by firing a few more shots. I'm not saying he should have aimed for the ear or anything, just fired a few more shots to give me a chance to feel it. It would have saved him all that yelling.

[Apok]

Yeah, I think it's legitimate to keep shooting until they feel it, as long as you're not doing it maliciously.

For example, in Blind Fury 3, a guy was yelling, in my direction, to call hits. Later I realized he was talking to me, at which time I discussed it with him and found out he had only fired one shot at me. -sigh- He said he saw it bounce off a mag pouch, so that's probably why I didn't feel it. He could have saved himself the stress, and me the apology, by firing a few more shots. I'm not saying he should have aimed for the ear or anything, just fired a few more shots to give me a chance to feel it. It would have saved him all that yelling.

Thats generaly what my group does when we play. We have one person that gives us problems so we just shoot him till he finally calls out. This would also be the same person that doesnt observe MEDs.

[Caleb Schuster]

I like the idea of having the flag runner having to slow down but it would make the game even less realistic to say that you can only walk with the flag; in the last game where I stopped a flag runner 165 rounds from a bb shower shell did the trick, but he was not that far away.
If you are shooting at approx 50ft or so make sure you lead them a little, it really can be hard to hit a running target at a distance. Upgrading to .25 bb could also help.

One more idea to add is using a larger object say a full cooler or somthing else large and heavy in place of the flag.

[sehret2010]

CTB... Capture the Beer, any takers?

[FatTek]

you could look into using .25's in your gun and. If they don't feel the first one, hit them 50 or 60 times... Eventually one will hit a tender spot and when they say an obscenity very loudly that's usually a result of lots of pain :D

[Gjorndian]

If they are using springers then this rule wouldn't really apply because it wouldn't be useable.

But what we do is fire 2 shots at least. Just like in SWAT, on the PD, and in the Military..they train you to fire 2 shots..that way you know the guy is dead.

Although he may complain that he is out and your second shot hit him (bonus bb? lol). You at least know you did get him.

[Iron Maiden]

SIDD!! I am disappointed, you know very well that we do NOT shoot for the head on purpose unless no other option is viable. But since I know you were JOKING (correct???? ;) ) I will over look it. (puts the mom voice away)

Seems to me that you might need to have fellow team mates help "watch" for the hits. If that particular player getting shot cannot feel them, then the others will just have to watch for the bouncing bb's.

I also fully agree with Snake. Listen for it, and if in doubt CALL IT.

[ctrlurself]

I know you were jokin FatTek, but we've played "Capture The Bacon"

put something basically bowling pin shaped in the middle of your play area, two teams start out at the opposite ends of your area, and whichever team can get the bacon back to their base first wins... and if u get shot with the bacon in your hands, you drop it, and run back to your base, tag it, and your back in.

when you run for the bacon, you're traveling TOWARDS the bbs fired at you, so you WILL feel them... like capture the flag, but you both fighting for the same object.

[Doc_Blaze]

The game "capture the bacon" is usually called neutral flag. Flag sits in the middle of the playing field, 2 teams rush towards it trying to push the other team back by killing key positional players and in turn try to get the flag back to their base.

[sehret2010]

Yea, we play that version of capture the flag as well, and we usually don't have problems with anyone feeling hits with this game until they get the flag and start running with it.

It's just the running that seems to be the problem, I think.

[Tricky]

So pretty much the thing we have all in the same is this flag carrier is so pumped up or running fast and cant feel the hits or not calling Initialy (not saying anything like that about anyone) so we have a conclusion just a T use heaver ammo get closer Now lets put those ideas to the test so we can all find a way to enjoy CTF games more in the future

[Natme]

Instead of using a flag, just go out and find a 100+ pound life-size manakin. Instead of capture the flag, it would be like, rescue the injured person by dragging them back to your base. This way the carrier would not be able to run, and therefore it would solve the "adrenalin rush" problem. Also, it would seem like a much more viable realism alternative. When does the army go out after a flag? But they probable have gone after a downed pilot or what-not.

On another note, you guys were talking about the beer cooler, what about just getting like an ammo crate that they'd have to get back? the idea is to maintain that weight, but give it a realistic twist.

[Tricky]

Well as in the prevous post lets try it out or some one try it out.. only SURE FIRE WAY we can say anyt of this could and will solve the problem is to go out and do it

[Disposable Soldier]

Okay then Tricky, you and me, we try it, just let me know when, then we can get back to these guys about it.

The Disposed

[Tricky]

Well we can try at Op Dim 001?

[makkyo]

I try to give the shooter the benefit of the doubt. If I even suspect that I MAY have gotten hit, I'll call myself. There's always next game.

[Dieter_Weber]

What i do is just keep shooting the person until he raises his hand :D

[high plains drifter]

What i do is just keep shooting the person until he raises his hand :D

HAHA, no. its been said. many times.

you use those exploding bb's in tht other thread:cool:

[Kirko]

if they dont stop after u shoot em 50x. chase em and tackle em. thats very logical. neh. just keep shooting. aim for the head so they call out. few shots in the face(gotta do what ya gotta do) will make em scream and u will know they are out. because if its 300+fps. and ur not far. they feel it unless they have 5 layers of clothing. and u all are making it sound like when u run with the flag that ur adrenaline sky rockets and u have unspeakable nonfeeling powers. no.

[Mavrick]

Man this really really irritates me. The complete lack of respect for your opponent is totally unacceptable. This is why i wish minors were not allowed to play in AO sanctioned events. You're too busy thinking about yourself to realize that grown ups have to pay insurance and medical bills. And i'm sorry, but if i get shot in the face and bust a tooth just because you feel you "(gotta do what ya gotta do)" I'll see you in court. Its a damn game dude, are that interested in getting the kill point that you are willing to put someone into harms way? I started to wonder why i see all of the older guys at SS3 and other organized Milsim events and not any of the smaller games, well now i know. Its **** like this that ruins it for everyone.

Cant feel your hits? Be a man, you can hear them ESP when someone is yelling "You're Out!!" over and over, call yourself out...Everyone else i know does it...if you cant do that fairly, well go play Halo.
Cant resist shooting someone in the face? Go play Halo or w/e it is you need to satisfy your sick twisted views.

[Doc_Blaze]

The most simple solution is that you can hear bb's hitting your clothes. Thats happened to me a couple of times where I don't feel it but I hear them hitting my clothes. At 110 our sniper was WATCHING his rounds hit his target and they would just look down and be like oh, what was that? then just keep going. Go ahead and put yourself in a snipers spot where you get ONE shot then you have to take your eye off of the scope and reload your chamber. How mad would you be if you WATCH your bb hit somebody and they just act like it didn't hit them? His rifle is at 440 fp/s with .25's. I'd definitely shoot somebody in the face if they can't "feel" or even "hear" the round hit them. I bet that they'd feel it once they got a big welt on their face from the sniper round. It would only happen once to a person, because the next time that they hear something hit them, they'll remember what happened last time when they heard that sound and call hit. The whole code of honor in airsoft, not everybody applies it, so thus they'll learn what happens. Oh yeah, and taking people to court. All I'd need is the WAIVER that you signed. :D

[ReverseFlank]

if all else fails you could go on ebay and buy a HUGE spool of bubble wrap and cover the flag carrier with it.

[Disposable Soldier]

Doc_Blaze, still no need to hit them in the face, just go to the event organizer about it, thats the most responsible thing you can do.

The Disposed

[Tricky]

Head shots are discouraged unless they are the only thing showing, yes? Well think about this when your a "sniper" or what ever when your looking down the sights or scope or what ever and your weapon is pointed at some ones face you have to think of the weight of the trigger. When you pull it anything happens, the flag runner can cough and you hit him in the teeth or you slip and hit an ear drum. So next time you say "Oh lets just shoot them in the head", think about it .Everything can go wrong and remember, the judgment and the outcome of the shot is the only weight of the trigger. If you think there is no weight that is like disrespecting the players and your weapon. Even if your spraying madly you should still consider, "Where are my shots going?". Who can be hurt how will they be hurt. If you can think of all these things at once in moments it takes to pull the trigger, don't pull the trigger.

[Mavrick]

Just remember guys, It only takes just 1 mistake, 1 rich kid's parents with lawyers standing by. Just 1 time for the party(s) against airsoft to start the legislation process...If ppl continue to think "Well I dont give a ****, i'll fire anyway" there wont be any airsoft......or at best case, Cyber gun will selling their 200fps guns bright orange and we'll all run around like retards.

[Mavrick]

The most simple solution is that you can hear bb's hitting your clothes. Thats happened to me a couple of times where I don't feel it but I hear them hitting my clothes. At 110 our sniper was WATCHING his rounds hit his target and they would just look down and be like oh, what was that? then just keep going. Go ahead and put yourself in a snipers spot where you get ONE shot then you have to take your eye off of the scope and reload your chamber. How mad would you be if you WATCH your bb hit somebody and they just act like it didn't hit them? His rifle is at 440 fp/s with .25's. I'd definitely shoot somebody in the face if they can't "feel" or even "hear" the round hit them. I bet that they'd feel it once they got a big welt on their face from the sniper round. It would only happen once to a person, because the next time that they hear something hit them, they'll remember what happened last time when they heard that sound and call hit. The whole code of honor in airsoft, not everybody applies it, so thus they'll learn what happens. Oh yeah, and taking people to court. All I'd need is the WAIVER that you signed. :D

Lol good luck trying to get that WAIVER to hold up in court. You look like you are 14 at the most so i'm fairly sure that you dont know **** about the court system. What you are doing can be classified as assault, not neglegance, which is what the waiver protects.

[vbtb110]

Waiver only protects the field owner and the hosting team from court, not players. Doc_ Blaze, its people like you that get us, airsofters as a whole, in trouble. Like Mavrick said, it only takes one bad incident to screw the rest of us. Kind of like Lawn Darts back in the '60s-'70s. It only took one kid being killed by neglegent and irresponsible people, to ruin it for everyone else.

[FatTek]

Just for the record, I do not agree with the past statements but, Here is the problem .....

Prove Intent.

I shoot you in the head from 250 feet away. You're trying to tell me that my BB's will not get off target at 275 or 250 ft. I disagree. Unfortunately those two words together get you out of a lot of crap. Second, play airsoft at YOUR OWN RISK.

Lets say I hear movement in a bush in front of me, about 40 ft away. I AM SHOOTING 399FPS in full auto. If someone is laying in that bush. Their life is about to SUCK! Oh I hit you in the face with like 6 BB's. Are you going to file civil litigation.

If you dont like being hit in the face get a face shield. Our first event I was hit in the face like 3 times, and my team mate was shot in the face point blank with 11 bb's. We could count the bleeding wounds on his face.

Just for the record from a legal stand point if this was taken to court, the Magistrate would hear both sides and would dismiss it from court so fast.

No where in the rules does it say plain and simple NO HEAD SHOTS. Head shots are frowned upon and it is courteous and respectful not to reign bb's all over someones face. I am the first person to go off if I get hit in the face and do some bad stuff because I am pissed. I don't get mad in airsoft cause I know this is the NATURE OF THE BEAST. YOU PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Just for the record I don't agree with, " Oh, you didn't feel that. Well I'll just aim at your face then." This is not the way to go about it, however, If it happens don't threaten someone with a civil lawsuit over that. You would be better off going off site duke it out and then go have a beer :D

Oh yeah before I forget, "Classified as ASSAULT" Please stop talking. My girls father is an attorney. Hi, I'm that kid with the attorney waiting. LOL

OK I'm off of my soap box now.

[AirsoftDvl]

Well When my team does CTF. We have the Flag carrier walk. But, that way you give him cover fire. And have to Cover him all the way back to his base.

[Doc_Blaze]

No it's not people like me that get airsofters as a whole in trouble. It's the people that don't realize that this is a game and don't acknowledge the point that when you're hit... you're hit. Tough titty said the kitty. You get hit, you're out regardless if you hear it or feel it. Period. Blade talked all about it if you have a doubt, just call yourself out. SOME people can't be man enough to just be like oh ok, I think I got hit so I'm out. It's a game and people have different views on it true. But I've been shot in the face before and it hurts, I'm sure all of us have. And I'm not going to sit there trying to advance my squad on to the objective when somebody isn't calling out. I'm going to make them feel it so that it's distinctive that they're hit.

[Mavrick]

Just for the record, I do not agree with the past statements but, Here is the problem .....

Prove Intent.

I shoot you in the head from 250 feet away. You're trying to tell me that my BB's will not get off target at 275 or 250 ft. I disagree. Unfortunately those two words together get you out of a lot of crap. Second, play airsoft at YOUR OWN RISK.

Lets say I hear movement in a bush in front of me, about 40 ft away. I AM SHOOTING 399FPS in full auto. If someone is laying in that bush. Their life is about to SUCK! Oh I hit you in the face with like 6 BB's. Are you going to file civil litigation.

If you dont like being hit in the face get a face shield. Our first event I was hit in the face like 3 times, and my team mate was shot in the face point blank with 11 bb's. We could count the bleeding wounds on his face.

Just for the record from a legal stand point if this was taken to court, the Magistrate would hear both sides and would dismiss it from court so fast.

No where in the rules does it say plain and simple NO HEAD SHOTS. Head shots are frowned upon and it is courteous and respectful not to reign bb's all over someones face. I am the first person to go off if I get hit in the face and do some bad stuff because I am pissed. I don't get mad in airsoft cause I know this is the NATURE OF THE BEAST. YOU PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Just for the record I don't agree with, " Oh, you didn't feel that. Well I'll just aim at your face then." This is not the way to go about it, however, If it happens don't threaten someone with a civil lawsuit over that. You would be better off going off site duke it out and then go have a beer :D

Oh yeah before I forget, "Classified as ASSAULT" Please stop talking. My girls father is an attorney. Hi, I'm that kid with the attorney waiting. LOL

OK I'm off of my soap box now.

Well i'd love to hit everyone that pisssed me off, but unfortunately that causes legal action as well...esp when under the age of 18.

1) 250ft away isnt going to do anything. This comment was specifically directed towards your teamates smart *** reply that he intends to shoot in the head to "so thus they'll learn what happens.". Everyone here should have a problem with that, i do, so i wrote back to him that he's not god, he cant do those things just because he feels like playing parent and punishing someone like they are his kid.

Before ppl start talking "wtf mav is a puss" No, thats not the case, i'm just trying to give these ignorants examples of what can happen. We see this stuff all the time ppl. One retard f's it up for everyone. I think so far we are pretty lucky in the lack of restrictions we have in airsoft, but it only takes just 1 significant problem and its all over. I can guarantee there are those opposing airsoft that read our forums everyday just looking for a plausible cause to put restrictions on it; thats why i dont understand why ignorant threats like what he's posted arent treated with a zero tolerance. Everyone has their pet peeve, whether its clips vs mags, raffles vs no raffles, well this is mine. I come to play a fun game, have a great time with my friends, talk about our "war stories" after its over and go home exhausted and smiling. None of you guys want to go home with your face torn up or busted teeth; why put others in harms way? It makes no sense to me, who gives you the right to have a decision in how anyone gets hurt?

Now i can distinguish between an accident and intentional. If its intentional and it causes me a hefty medical bill, depending on the situation, i'll be talking to your mommy and daddy atleast to get my money back. And at the most, you wont be allowed to play airsoft again, so either way i'll win.

And yes man, sadly i have to say you are wrong. Go ahead and talk to your local law enforcement agency about whether an intentional shot to the head can be deemed assault and see what they say. From past experience, i already know what their answer is. Airsoft isnt sanctioned by any government agency to dismiss personal injury based upon the sport; so yeah, you are not protected under any waiver my friend. Besides, i dont need to hire an attorney. Anthem isnt going to be happy that they have to cover my bill, i think when it comes to hiring attorneys, they win.

If you'd like to attempt your "witty" pissing match with me over something you shouldnt even be supporting, i'll be much obliged to continue...for your own sake, please leave it at this because i really dont want to get this into a huge debate. The whole point was to deter these guys who think they can aim at w/e they want and get away with it and thats totally unacceptable.

[FatTek]

Yeah its people that have ego's in the game and think, "That random kid" shouldn't have hit me so I am not going to call it. Those are the POS's that ruin games and the sport of airsoft. I play another game that is honor based in calling their shots where head shots are plain and simple not ALLOWED, because we plow each other with sticks that can cause damage to your head if they contact each other. I get hit in the face and bloody nose's and all that stuff. But guess what that doesn't ruin the game. People cheating ruins the games. I played that for 10 years and I said F them kids and left because AHoles that cheated. I can get over some hitting me in the face on accident or on purpose, however someone who cheats and lies. Well they can pretty much go die cause the world doesn't need them. These people know who they are. There where multiple times at OP:110 where I got hit while in a bush or laying in the field with no one around me. I could have disregarded it and kept going. But I didn't cause thats not fair to the guy who got that good shot. That shot may have been the thing that made him keep playing airsoft. He may have been thinking man I suck at this game I am going to quit but when I yelled hit and he got that tingly feeling inside that may have made him keep playing. But if I would have shot someone in the face they would think GRRR that sucked. Oh well I'll be alive in 5 mins.

Cheaters should be removed from this game with a swift kick in the bumbum.
Not people that voice their opinions.

[vbtb110]

Its the fact that he said he would shoot people in the face on purpose if they do not call hits. That is where I have a problem. Yeah, if you get hit on that face on accident then sure, thats cool. But if you are threatening to shoot people in the face on purpose, as a "punishment" for not calling hits, and deliberately aiming for the head, that is a whole different ball game.

[Doc_Blaze]

Ok dude you know what. I am not 14 years old, matter of fact I am 19 years old regardless of how I look. Simple fact of the matter. Airsoft is a military simulation tactic. If I'm wrong please attempt to correct me on this matter. If you would even have a thought in your HEAD that when a U.S. soldier is in Iraq that the Iraqi soldiers won't aim for the head? Are you that ignorant and dumbfounded that you do not even understand the big picture of airsoft? What do you think that Al Najaf is based on? IRAQ! You play at your own risk. You can determine that if a shot was intentionally fired at your head? That's like saying somebody intentionally ran into your car at an intersection. It would be your word against whoever shot. If you're seriously THAT worried about "chipping a tooth" or w/e then wear a mask and shut your mouth. Ask anybody who's been playing for a while. They don't want to get shot in the mouth so they a:Close their mouth or b:wear a mask to protect it. Plain and simple.

[vbtb110]

We don't use real guns do we?

What about actual knives for knife kills?

Airsoft isn't exactly like real life, like you say. Yes we try to replicate it as closely as possible, but there are some things that you just do not do in airsoft. Things like, intentionally shooting people in the head. Or in the male nether regions. It is just common courtesy. Your mentality reminds me of those kids on YouTube who shoot their buddies in the nuts with a Wally World "Official Liscenced Cybergun Kalishnakov Spec Ops Airsoft Gun". It isn't all about causing the other guy pain, or getting him to bleed, or any of that crap. If you think that is all it is, than you are acting very immature and narrow minded.

[Miku]

Simple fact of the matter. Airsoft is a military simulation tactic. If I'm wrong please attempt to correct me on this matter. If you would even have a thought in your HEAD that when a U.S. soldier is in Iraq that the Iraqi soldiers won't aim for the head?


Yes, this is a military simulation, but it is intended to be a sfae sport (I wouldn't even call it a sport yet.). Over in wherever it may be, whether it be Afghanistan, Iraq, or wherever, they are trying to KILL each other, not just shoot someone out.


You can determine that if a shot was intentionally fired at your head?


You can when they say that they are going to be aiming at your head for "punishment"...
And besides, your not the sheriff of Deadwood, you don't need to be deciding who gets punished, that is up to the event organizers.

If you're seriously THAT worried about "chipping a tooth" or w/e then wear a mask and shut your mouth. Ask anybody who's been playing for a while. They don't want to get shot in the mouth so they a:Close their mouth or b:wear a mask to protect it. Plain and simple.


I'm not going to say you've never chipped a tooth, because I don't know. But if you haven't then you'd know that it isn't the most pleasant thing in the world. Not to mention the bill you'll need to pay afterwards...

Why is this even being argued over? Wasn't the intent of this thread to see how different people go about making it easier for the flag runner to know if they are out? This gets my HOI vote.

[British]

Last time I checked airsoft was ment to be a SAFE way to perform military simulations. The only thing that aiming at peoples head will do is raise the stock in the dental and law industry.

[Doc_Blaze]

ok, you say that it's not intended to give off the image of "killing"? Well lets see here, we're holding AUTOMATIC rifles that shoot projectiles. How in the hell do you think that that is not simulating killing somebody? Have you EVER shot a real gun? Maybe you need to take a look at what you're playing. Objective : Kill the other team, how you do it? You SHOOT them.

[Doc_Blaze]

Seriously do not get the idea that if you're close to me that I'm going to shoot you in the face or something like that. I understand the fact of the matter that shooting LOW is the key idea. What I'm saying is that I'm competitive and I LOVE strategic games. Where once we "don't kill but shoot" these guys we're moving forward to our objective and once that something comes along the way that shouldn't happen a.k.a. somebody not calling hit then for one, I'm going to be mad and frustrated because I hit them and them not calling hit is getting in the way of my objective and two all I hear is people talking about how if you have a doubt call hit but not everybody does it. For instance, at 110, this guy was in a building and me and him were exchanging fire back and forth and there were a lot of ricochets in there so he didn't exactly know if he got hit but he had a doubt, so he called hit. I respect him for that just for the simple fact that he did it and wasn't ashamed of it or anything like that. That's the honor system.

[Kirko]

hahahaha u guys crack me up. i dont think it is right to bust someone in the face with BBs. take a joke. shhhsss. im just saying. hey the flag carrier feels it. hes not telling the truth if he says he doesnt. get a flag and run and ill shoot u and i gaurantee u will feel it. adrenaline has nothing to do with it. ur adrenaline is pumping all the other times when ur getting shot and u still feel it how is it any different when u have the flag. like i said. ur not superman. ur adrenaline will not get so high that u cant feel any hits. it just might not hurt right away but u will feel the thing hitting. if someone wants to cheat like that. i have no respect for them. maybe u might not feel/hear it hitting u. but that is very highly unlikely unless u are getting shot on a backpack and shooting at the same time with it next to ur ear.

[Doc_Blaze]

Actually it has happened to me before. I was rushing the flag while unloading on another person who was in other words defending it, ended up hitting him, grabbed the flag and ran it back to my base and my team mate was like damn dude! look at all those welts on your neck! I had about 4-5 welts on my neck from when I got shot and didn't notice it.

[Kirko]

Its the fact that he said he would shoot people in the face on purpose if they do not call hits. That is where I have a problem. Yeah, if you get hit on that face on accident then sure, thats cool. But if you are threatening to shoot people in the face on purpose, as a "punishment" for not calling hits, and deliberately aiming for the head, that is a whole different ball game.

okay so ur saying. i hear u coming. i pop out and just shoot on automatic. and ur crouching so i hit u in the face instead of the stomach/legs. and i chip 5 of ur teeth and shoot u in the throat because u were yelling commands to ur teammates. ur going to be like. hit. cough cough. puke. cough cough. ahhhh. cough. and be ok with it?
but if i pop out and ur standing and i shoot u 5x and i see u flinch from me shooting u and u didnt call out. and u shoot me and i call out. and i say i saw that u felt those and heard u whisper ouch and next time u cheat like that imma blast u in the face. and u do the exact same thing and i tuck back into cover and u continue to shoot and i pop back out and blast u in the face a couple times and all u get is a little zit looking thing on ur cheek and forehead.
ur going to be mad about that and not the one where i knocked ur teeth out?

if it was me. id be upset about both. but heck. i deserved the 2nd one and was even warned if i did it again so i probably shouldnt have cheated. and i probably wouldnt do it again so i dont get hit in the face. but i mean. hey. not saying it is ok to shoot in the face no matter what. i was just proving a point. it is never ok to get shot in the face and u will never be fine with it if it was an accident or on purpose even tho it does happen on accident. so a solution. if u dont want hit in the face where a mask or mouth piece. or shut up because sometimes they cant help it and u might get hit in the face. and u wont like it.

[FatTek]

First of all I didn't say a waiver protected you. I said that it could be considered mutual agreement. Second, I have talked to local law enforcement officers cause my neighbors called the police on me cause I was shooting my airsoft gun with some friends in the back yard and when the fuzz showed up I sat and talked to them for an hour on the legalities of an airsoft gun in town and how certain situations would be looked at in court. I don't need to prove myself or prove what I know to someone who thinks they know how it works. I know what I was told and that is all I need.

Next don't tell me if this happened you would take the parental advisor's of random guy A to court and win in that situation. There are loop holes in the system and in the rules. This is how people get away with murder.

Once again... Prove Intent.

I say I am going to punch you in the face. Guess what if you call the cops they WILL TELL YOU YOUR S.O.L. Verbal threats are nothing. Once acted upon, then sure, you could question it.

Next, you can distinguish between accident and on purpose. K your word against mine. Good job failure.

Next this was never about you and I am not supporting the situation. I don't think that is the right way to go about it. Judge a man by his actions , not his words.

Theoretically anyone can aim at what ever they want. They just have to suffer the consequence for it. When he shoots someone in the face and says he indeed meant to do so, then you can flame him and it can be dealt with accordingly. Just cause there are rules doesn't mean people are going to abide by them. This topic is obsolete and it is pointless to argue logic with someone who doesn't let it play a role in there life. If I got shot in the face.
I would be thinking man I need a face shield or damn lets not get shot this time. Not ohhh B147CH your going to jail for assault now, or Where's my cell phone I'm filing a civil lawsuit now!!!!!! That is just ridiculous.


Everyone gets P.O.ed or angry in the heat of the moment and says something they didn't mean. Or even take a specific course of action that they know is not the correct course but at the time, it was OK cause they were caught up in the moment. The 3 worst things you can have going on to cause violence or even harsh threats in Anger, Adrenaline, and Dehydration. These are things everyone suffers from at the end of a day.

I'm ending this ridiculous argument over a very opinionated subject.
Last statement. Maverick I have nothing against you, you are just as opinionated as myself. We just see the opposite sides of the spectrum.

I just don't think an idol threat is very important to keep dogging'.
I have said I am going to beat your a$$ to many of people, didn't always do it and when I did I took care of it like I should have, took responsibility and more importantly took consequence. I am sure this is how anyone of us that play airsoft would take care of the problem. If it ever happened in the future.

What ever.

Mav.. cya at Najaf

[Kirko]

What ever.

Mav.. cya at Najaf

"cya at Najaf and be sure to close ur mouth or bring a mask. lmao" jk

[Mavrick]

Tek, these werent for threats...

1) You've got someone threatening to aim to intend harm. What do you? Let it happen? Its we as airsofters to let these ppl know that their actions will not go tolerated. So thats what i've done, i've told him and roused support from others that we as airsofters will not let this type of behavior ruin our fun.

2) Lets take this further, suppose someone does intend to go for personal injury... What do you? Throw them out of the game, send them home? The damage has been done, but they havent learned anything from the incident, nor have the other younger moldable hobbyists. And what about the guy whos got to go home and tell his mom/dad/wife/husband that they must now spend a ton of money on an incident that wasnt even their fault. If you have any of the above to deal with, then you know how breaking that news is, esp if its your wife/fiance. Your guns will be in the trash so quick its not even funny.

Eye protection is required because of accidents. Face masks arent required for a reason...why? Cuz we dont aim for the face, its an unwritten rule that more and more lately i feel i'm the only one reiterating the importance. We all pay to play...in gear, in field costs...no one deserves to walk away upset or angry because someone else ruined their fun. Sure, someone not calling thier hits sucks, but physical harm is something no one should have to put up with. Returning physical harm to that person is not a good example, so what else is there to do about it?

So it leaves us with 2 real options to teach the guy that the above behavior is not tolerated. Innocent guy can kick his ***... Innocent guy gets charges pressed and he goes to jail. Whats left? making the offender pay for what he's done. Which is what i said. Now, like you have mentioned, good luck taking me to court is just like a theif saying "good luck catching me" Anyone voluntarily disobeying safety rules should be treated with a zero tolerance and should be held up as an example. So as i said, well i'll take you to court. With a good enough case it doesnt matter. Need i bring up the thousands of "hot coffee" lawsuits? In proposed incidents like this, its important that someone walks away with a punishment and an example for everyone else why its dumb to aim for places you shouldnt be aiming at.
Why is this important? Well we see it at every small event, more and more ppl are complaining about bs shots to the face and walking off the field and not returning.

Now I'm not talking every face shot, sometimes it just happens...but there are more and more youngers who are too quick to aim for face. Its a game, JUST A GAME...who cares if you have to wait for someone to make themselves more visible, you can do it, i have faith in you. But to think that we are untouchable by the law is ignorance. Some kids daddy will go balls to the wall and airsoft will change. You see that **** all the time man. Which is easier? Not to aim for the face or to just wait?

I dunno, maybe airsoft isnt what i thought it was. It seems that alot of the events i go to ppl have the impression that this is paintball, you show up, spray at anything you want how you want and say "f u" to anyone that has a problem with it. I just thought airsoft had alot more honor and morales in it. Maybe i'll just limit myself to a SS event every year.

[Gjorndian]

ok, you say that it's not intended to give off the image of "killing"? Well lets see here, we're holding AUTOMATIC rifles that shoot projectiles. How in the hell do you think that that is not simulating killing somebody? Have you EVER shot a real gun? Maybe you need to take a look at what you're playing. Objective : Kill the other team, how you do it? You SHOOT them.

Ok I'm going to throw in my two sense and then I seriously say this thread needs to be closed because there is no resolution to the question that was asked, and there is just flaming back and forth between two to three members of these forums.

Ok..first Doc, yes I will agree 110% that we are shooting automatic rifles. You are dead accurate in your description of the type of weapon we are using and the type of projectile being used.

What I will disagree with is the fact that your imagining your actually killing people. Yes the game is about shooting people...but that is why they "call their out" because...duh..you arn't actually KILLING them.

Second off, as for firing a real gun. Lets look at the actual mathematical equation as to the rate of which an airsoft rifle shoots...and a real gun shoots.

I'll start with a very small projectile and we'll examine the differences in velocity.

Airsoft Rifle - Projectile 6MM Plastic Bullet.

Weight - .20 gram

Velocity - Average 350 FPS (Which btw is close to 510 MPH. 60 MPH is 88 FPS. 88 X 5.8 = 510.4 MPH)


.22 Long Rifle - Projectile 6.88 MM Lead Bullet

Weight - 1.9 gram (at a 30 grain bullet)

Velocity - Average 1323 FPS (On a 30 - 36 grain bullet, which is close to 1940 MPH. Again 88 x 22.05 = 1940.4. You take the FPS 1323 divided by 60 MPH = 22.05 times 88. 1940 MPH.)


So again...have YOU ever shot a real gun?

The point of the matter being, is that airsoft is a sport (if you can call it that). It is a game in which two opposing teams are trying to each get to their respective objectives and complete their mission.

In order to stop the opposing teams, players are provided a tool to use (IE, the gun and ammo) in order to get the other team "out". In which case, the other team (on games with respawn) go back to their spawn point and come back to try to help their fellow teammates in finishing the objective.

Now if your playing the game with the idea that "I am killing other people, and I am imagining myself killing these people" Then honestly you are a very sadistic person and I wouldn't want to be on the same field as you. If in your mind, your idea of playing the game is injuring the other person so they are unable to help their team and full fill their job, then you are just like that kid on every team that plays against the rules because he feels everyone else is inferior to himself and that he should be the one making the game as he goes.

You are a bully, and you should seriously consider yourself lucky that many people will let you play with them with that kind of attitude.

These forums are meant as a way for people to help each other...not tear each other down.

Opinion based insults or advice are just that..Opinions. One person expressing himself how he see's fit...regardless if it is factual, fiction or otherwise known to exist.

If you are really 19, then you should really consider learning to grow up before engaging in an argument where opinion's don't matter.

Come to these forums with an open mind and a closed mouth and you'll learn alot.

Although my post number is low..I've been on these forums for a few years now. I'm not new...but I speak my mind when it is needed or wanted...I don't ramble on because I think I know it all.

I think I speak for everyone who disagree's with you here.

[FatTek]

Mav I understand what you are saying and I do, whole heartedly agree with your last post except for one thing. Its not really that big a deal. If I am chilling in a creek bed or any other piece of cover and you lean your head out to see what is going on. I AM SHOOTING YOU IN THE FACE. Now if you stick your torso out to see as well I will aim for torso. To go around thinking your not going to be hit in the face at an event is just idiotic. IT WILL HAPPEN Hell I was sitting on a hill a Najaf with my dead rag on and with all of my body sitting up above it. I got shot in the face like 7 times. I shouldn't have but I did so I just laid down and didnt mind it. Nature of the beast.

I understand that you are saying that threats can be acted upon and we should stop this action before it occurs to save heart ache and so on. I agree but the line where you stop it is not in a forum or so fourth. Anyone with common since, knows and understands that there are consequences for breaking rules and so fourth. Give them enough rope to hang themselves with. The line where you stop it, is before the damage is done but after the treat is made not when the treat is made. I think we all have gotten our words out on this subject. I think its obsolete now.

XOXO :D

[sehret2010]

So, in summary before this thread is closed, we need to slow the games down and be more aware of our surroundings (auditory detection of hits and watching our teammates to tell them if they are out).

For those of you who offered advice about the original question asked in this thread, I appreciate your thoughts and my friends and I will definitely be trying out some of your suggestions the next time we play together.

As for getting shot in the face: it happens occasionally and we as a community have to deal with it, but that does not mean any of us have the authority to shoot anyone in the face deliberately. Period.

Thanks again.

[Miku]

And this is why we don't necro post.....:rolleyes:
(Even though no one technically did.)
I do agree that this thread needs closing, or at least for all parties involved to just chill about it.

[Shiftyeyes92]

Well I will give an example of a good tactic. If the Flag carrier of the other team is running away from the shots and it is obvious he is taking hits you could keep the fire from the rear on him and have another team mate circle around and as he runs to capture the flag cap him with a pistol to make him feel like a loser... :)

[Firefox]

alright, closing up the thread by giving some advice as said before, if you are are concered about head shots wear a balcava or head wrap head shots are part of airsoft, want to be a woos about it? DO NOT PLAY!!!!:)

[Darkstar]

Nice Necropost firefox. You sure told them!!

Unfortunately Mobius, someone DID Necropost, and you predicted it months ahead of time!! I'm impressed. LoL.

[Shifty]

alright, closing up the thread by giving some advice as said before, if you are are concered about head shots wear a balcava or head wrap head shots are part of airsoft, want to be a woos about it? DO NOT PLAY!!!!:)

Ah yes, another classic example necro-posting that contributes absolutely nothing at all to the conversation.

The logic of "It's your responsibility to protect yourself" is only partially correct. While it is your responsibility to protect your own teeth, it is also your responsibility to not aim for other peoples' heads.

Want to hear another example using your "logic"? Alright, so those people in Omaha in the mall-shooting were responsible for their own deaths, because they weren't wearing armor that is commonly available. Does this sound retarded to anyone else? OF COURSE IT DOES!

We are once again allowing an idiotic, unsportsmanlike, and just plain useless mentality infiltrate our sport. It's crap like this that made paintball what it is today.

and finally, you spelled "Wuss" wrong.

Locked and moved to the Hall of Infamy