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gertrude
04-30-2006, 08:35 AM
Wow, I'm surprised no one has posted a thread yet...

Well, MAD KUDOS go out to Black Eagle and the entire event hosting staff! I had a blast, and I didn't even play... although I did get to blow/shoot some people up. ;)

Props to the US side that pulled off a narrow victory (by 300 points or somesuch). The field was good, and although I think I hiked about five miles yesterday between going up to the registration cabin and the campsites a few times and walking the entire length of the field and completely around the field once, I had an excellent time. (My feet, however, disagree, but I'm choosing not to listen to them right now.)

It was also nice to have a field that wasn't too far away from Columbus- the drive to Bellefontaine wasn't half as bad as I thought it would be- I live right near 161, so it was pretty easy to get to.

So... Thanks once again to Black Eagle! It was good to meet you folks and spend a day in such a well thought-out event. :)

theblackfox
04-30-2006, 12:01 PM
I figured there would be a four page thread already. Oh well, as I posted on Black Eagle's website, it was a good day and I thanks to the Black Eagles for putting this thing on.

It was well planned, and pretty well done execution wise. The only thing that bothered me was I saw more then a little bit of cheating, and I herd some childish arguing on one of the lower trails, which if I was given proper information as quickly ended by Commander CAR.

Which leads me to thank him for his great leadership and to thank TAC as a whole and team iP both of which I fought alongside most of the day. It was good meeting all the guys from TAC and I hope for many more games running along side you guys.


Thanks to all the roleplayers who put up with being slaughtered all day. Thanks to Loki and Gertrude for sharing your pizza with my team and TAC, also for letting me shoot with, and at you respectively. Good job to the whole US force.

Steamer
04-30-2006, 12:31 PM
Black Eagle, thank you I had a great time! A well put together game at a nice location. The role players did an excellent job!

Thanks to rebels for putting up a hard fun fight.

To the US force, it was a pleasure to fight along side you all. Didnt seems to matter much who I was fighting with at any given time, we all worked well together, and got the job done!

Salute

Looking forward to the next one.

Decoy
04-30-2006, 12:59 PM
First off to get the good things out there, Black Eagle, hell of a job for your first event. This had to be the best "First Time Organizing" events I have ever attended. There were problems, but a majority were little thingd that can be taken care of easily by the second hosted event.

Now the bad...
I was almost ashamed at the conduct of the players on the field. Between the "childish arguement" that I heard rumors off and poor sportsmanship from from established teams. Before I go into some details of what I mean, the counter arguement of "but the other side did it too" does not hold water. If I saw someone rob a bank and called them out on it, and that persons response is that I too robbed a bank...that doesn't negate the fact that banks were robbed. This SHOULD NOT EVEN BE TRIED TO BE BRUSHED OFF, IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

When I started in airsoft a few years ago, not too long before I saw some of the people I am talking about, there was a "gentleman's rule" of not aiming for the head. Every time my squad ran into iP, myself and the rest of my squad had our heads targeted. Usually on full-auto, buy humming guns (not over limits but probable at the top of acceptable FPS). Normally if this occurs, and all we show is our head to our enemy, fine, thats all you have to shoot at. But when I am standing in no cover, and get hit in my goggles and on my nose that becomes unacceptable behavior. The other issue with iP I heard was their repeatedly shooting full auto at players to the head, who have already called out and had either their guns over their heads or "red rags" on. That is unacceptable behavior. To cap all this off one member of my squad had his tooth chipped 15 mins. before the end of the game because once again, an iP member shot full auto to my squad member's face after he had called his hits. Yes, I know about bbs being in flight while someone puts on a death rag, or call their hit. But if you do not allow your target enough reaction time to call their hit, you're becoming a dangerous player. iP wasnt the only group doing this, nor only the US side from what I heard. But this is what I saw with my own eyes, and from an "experienced team" made it even worse in my book.
I don't know about the US side, but after a lot of this "unsportsman like behavior" we had numerous players leave the game/field or were a hair's breath from it.

Behavior like this has led to 2 chipped teeth in over a month and a half is an unacceptable rate. Something has to change.

snipe
04-30-2006, 01:36 PM
Thanks Black Eagle for a very good event. The scenario and rules and role players were awesome. That sucks how such a good event can be brought down due to the actions of a team.

IP i would like to thank your members for shooting me over 200 times in the face full auto from 20'. I would also like to thank those members who walked by me laughing after this occured.
I was moving in on the hospital and i was completely in the open. all of a sudden a burst of around 50 rounds comes flying at my face. I was completely in the open so you could have done the thing a man would have done and shot me in the chest. After those 50 rounds i yeleld "HIT!" and went for my red rag. before i could get my hand in the air i had another volley of 100 rounds flying at my head. My hand was in front of my face and both my hand and face felt the bbs. more rounds came and the red rag got on my head i yelled once more and finally the shooting stopped. Organize5rs if you would like the names of the two that laughed at me i will GLADLY give you their names.

This is not proper airsoft conduct. We are all out there to have a good time but when some one (or in this case a group) goes against the grain it turns into a VERY bad day.

Big Clips
04-30-2006, 02:35 PM
Wow,

I had a good time, but a few things also bothered me. Having been to quite a few games, I figure this stuff is just the way it was.

However, There were a few incidents I would really like to know about.

The hospital, Snipe this may have been later in the game and it wasnt iP you were up against it was us (08) and Loki. We we taking on three others in the battle for the Hospital and after two guys called out, one went over and walked to the other guy with a red rag on his head (prolly to get out of the line of fire, and thats fine) but he did not put a red rag on his own head. So I shot him again. After a yelling match between myself and the two there I heard the excuse, He dosent have a red rag. Ok, ok. If he dosent have a red rag, then he dosent have a red rag. However, prior to this event it was mentioned no less than 10 times that we should all carry two. I brought 24 of them (I only carried two on the field) and lost 3 on the field, and when I had no more on me, I went back and got some more. So I never was in battle without one. The "I dont have a red rag" thing is no excuse.

Again, Snipe I dont know if this was you or the same situation. But I did mention to the two after the battle that there were no hard feelings and we (to my knowledge) made peace with the incident. If this is the wrong incident then disregard.

Another incident around noon Lu and I were standing on the hill leading to the ammo dump with 4 civilians. Durring an intresting manuver from the Kali forces, we were sprayed with BBs, Lu and I since we were standing behind the civilians, were unharmed, yet all the civies were KIA. Somehow, we (the US side) was punished for killing them?!

Durring this same push up the hill and ontot the road, no one on the Kali side called any hits. No one. As a group of no less than 20 were in front of the ammo dump TAC, 08 and iP guys were all firing into them seeing tons of BBs bounce off them. No one called hits. Then later after being surendered, we were all shot. I was in shock as to how this would happen and took a break from the game after this.

Also for iP, I have never seen them aim for the head of anyone. I know most of them and would easily vouge for any one of them. They are a very well mannered team and very respectable. Just because you got shot alot in the face (I took a heavy burst whilst smoking a cigarette, burning my neck in the process) dosent mean people were out there aiming for it. Truth is, if you are in good cover or in a good position, the only place you can be hit is in the face. You really should be anrgy and blast a whole team.

All in all I had a good time. Good event, hope to see more.

snipe
04-30-2006, 03:02 PM
No big clips that was not me at the hospital then.

there were around 5 Kali forces on that left hill. We never made a push... the Indigenous forces made the pushes on the ammo dump. So if youre gonna point a blame please get your facts straight first.

You were on the US side so of course you wouldnt think that iP had done any of it because you didnt feel any brunt of the force. When the entire Kali side agrees that iP is aiming for the face and/or cheating this poses a problem. The majority of the Kali side at respawns would complain about either getting shot in the face by iP or having them cheat.

red_spetsnaz
04-30-2006, 04:09 PM
I liked the event very much, but I also noticed this problem. Not just because I am on the opposing team, but because I was hit in the head numerous times, more in fact than I have ever taken in the entire five years I have been around here. But anyways, thank you to everyone that attended, I had fun.

PS> Iceman, next event that the both of us are at, bring your shotgun:).

Specter357(2nd)
04-30-2006, 04:36 PM
Well, this was my first event and i had a hell of a time.


I saw some people not calling there hits. One of there incidents realy pissed me off. Redhawk and I were pinned at a building ( he was insied and i was out). We were taking heavy fire. The Kali side of the hill was in front off me. I was there for about 10 mins. About 3 Kali were on the hill and firing at me and others. They were hiding behind a pallet. You know the kind with the slots in it. I put at least 2 300 round high caps into them. No one called out. i think one off them had a sniper. i could see what they were doind through a crack in the wood. After i would put a long burst into them i would start to take fire, so i hid. I would look throuth the crack and watch them rub there arm or leg, like you do after getting shot. I would be yelling at them to call there outs but they wouldnt. You could see the damn BBs bouncing off them. A medic never healed any of them. That was my experence with that. And also i got shot several times in the face, good thing I HAD MY RED RAG COVERING IT or it would have really hurt, :mad:

All in all i had a great time. And i would like to thank Kali for getting there Butts wooped

PS TIMMY TIMMY

Decoy
04-30-2006, 05:05 PM
BigClips, try reading my above post again.

First off, sure you may have been to quite a few game recently...good for you. Most of the complaints I heard at this event came from seasoned (multiple years at big event) veterans. None of which have a grudge against the teams in question, at least that I know of. And by the way...no, this is not "how it is".

The aiming for the head thing I would brush off, except for the fact as stated in my above comment I WAS IN NO COVER standing up straight. This happend more than once to me alone during the day and have heard and witness similiar instances involving other players.

We know who we're talking about (woodland marpat and helmets). You may vouch for iP all you want, but that means absolutely nothing to me or those of us bringing this up. Just because you post a lot doesn't make you a good judge of character (not saying that iP has bad character, just this instance was bad and needs to be addressed). This is the same reason I was shocked, because iP hasn't done stuff like this in the past.

As for anything that Kali did, I didn't see anything bad out there (Read: I'm not saying it didn't happen, just I didn't see it). Of course I spent over an hour at our HQ away from all fighting trying to cool down the players that were pissed due to the head shots.

We need to improve the game of airsoft, not just ignore the issues that arise...unless of course you personally want to pay all of our dental bills for chipped teeth.

CAR15A2
04-30-2006, 05:13 PM
I saw a lot of people with face hits, all on the US side. But then I didn't get very close to the Kalis because my troops kept them away from me.

So there were clearly a lot of head hits out there, apparently on both sides. I do not believe that IP was deliberarately targeting headshots. I have worked alongside them for several years and know them well enough to know they don't do that. A lot of my team also got hit multiple times in the face, sometimes after calling out. Its not fun but it happens.

theblackfox
04-30-2006, 05:42 PM
Both sides were getting head shots not just iP not just Kali, not just the US. EVERYONE. I was shot multipal times in the head, face, and neck. But if you look at it I think alot of you would realize it's probley not intentional, the range and terrain we were on, with hop ups and such I'm sure most of them were not intentional.

The reason I see them being intentional is becuase people wear Body armor and such which makes it hard for them to tell if they have been hit or not. I know this is an over generaliztion by the shooter but just becuase you say "well i'm not like that" dosent mean anything to the shooter.

Like CAR said, It's not fun but it happens.

FYI Decoy
Big Clips has been toying with and playing airsoft for quite a few years.

Blitz[ip]
04-30-2006, 05:47 PM
My thoughts.

Personally on my team or anyone on the US side I did not happen to see anyone intentionally shoot people in the head. Also, I have two bleeding welts on my face from saturday as well as a cracked tooth from last season and I am not complaining. Getting shot is part of the game, if you're cared about your teeth go spend $2 and buy a mouthguard, everyone on iP has them.

I would stake my life that 99% of "intentional" head shots are misunderstandings and accidents. Most of the time, as everyone knows, the only visible body part is the head because people are poking around corners and above baracades, ect. Yeah it sucks to get shot in the head, it happens to everyone.

bottom line:
I had a great time at the event, i dont really care that i got shot in the head lol

Go buy a mouthguard, they are $2 and will save you a lot of trouble

gertrude
04-30-2006, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Decoy
If I saw someone rob a bank and called them out on it, and that persons response is that I too robbed a bank...that doesn't negate the fact that banks were robbed.

Funny you should mention bank robbing... I accidentally robbed the bank of basically all its money instead of the 10 coins that were supposed to be in play... that was sort of my bad, but I don't think we (the banker and I) knew that it was just supposed to be the 10 coins. Oh, well. Lesson learned.

Grease Man
04-30-2006, 06:05 PM
iP does not aim for heads purposly.

Heres a good story. ALL of iP was eating lunch, probably half way through the game, at our cars. Some guy comes walking by our cars and says somthing along the lines of "wow you guys must be fast because theres a bunch of people saying your shooting them in the head right now?"...simply amazing.

Another thing. I talked to lone gunman after the game and he told me about the problem, I clearly told him that if there was any problems you guys (6mm) should approach us at the game to handle them and get them worked out, instead of taking it to the boards. Well it looks like you guys clearly took the option2. I don't want to say your "hiding" behind the boards, but come on.

but anyways, I would like to thanks Blackeagle for a great event, I had a blast.

Thanks.

osok
04-30-2006, 06:48 PM
I was shot in the head and neck several times. And yes, I too was clearly in the open hiding behind nothing. Don't know if it was intentional or not, don't care. I just figured it's the nature of the game. I knew that it was a possibility. I was also over shot several times. Meaning by someone with a heavy trigger finger. Sometimes while I was in a sitting position with a red rag on my head. Not everyone plays by the rules. Some take it way too serious and personal. I hope I never become one of them.

Although I didn't care for the brush piles to crawl over and around, I still had a blast. Will I do it again? Hell yeah.

BTW, when will the pics be posted?

Decoy
04-30-2006, 07:11 PM
EDIT: I removed this post, because of a double posting.
-Decoy

Decoy
04-30-2006, 07:19 PM
Both sides were getting head shots not just iP not just Kali, not just the US. EVERYONE. I was shot multipal times in the head, face, and neck. But if you look at it I think alot of you would realize it's probley not intentional, the range and terrain we were on, with hop ups and such I'm sure most of them were not intentional.

Blackfox, I am not saying iP were the only ones that were apart of this mess. The reason I am saying iP, is because I saw them specifially. I think it may have been DH1 (I could be wrong) pointed out that many of the people playing these day have optics that are zeroed with their hop-ups set right, so they hit what they aim at, within proper distances...so logic then states that if someone is not in cover, being hit in the head, then the shooter either has poor marksmanship skills, intentionally aims for the head, doesn't have their guns zeroed, or reacted too quickly without thinking...which falls back to level of experience.


iP guys, should I have brought this up to you directly after the game...yes, I should have. But I was spending more time trying to gather information as to who shot out my squad member's tooth, and all the complaints from my squad / side that came to me. By the time I got a sense of "what happened" I saw the iP conovy pulling out.

I would be like everyone else on here and just claim it is situation as normal but the frequency of headshots that I have seen and recived by people NOT IN COVER (i.e. more than head showing) has increased over the past 3 years. I am pissed off about it. And I think something needs to be done about it.

I have a mouth guard, I have a mask. That doesn't negate the rules of the game as when I entered airsoft. I guess I am the slim minority that I WILL NOT shoot for the head unless it is the ONLY part visible.

Grease, when you were at lunch was when I was at the HQ. The reports given (that I know of) involving iP were things that happened in the morning because it wasn't until noon - 1pm when we finally found an organizer.



And to all, yes. I had dinner with some of the TAC guys and saw their faces/necks with the whelts. This is not a one sided affair.

I guess I am the only one that finds this be be unsportsman like, my bad. Lets let all our honor and morals slip down the drain to follow the masses... [/sarcasm]

CAR15A2
04-30-2006, 07:25 PM
Decoy,

Its only unsportmanslike if it truly IS intentional. I agree that there was an unusually high number of headshots. I don't know why it happened that way and you don't either.

To claim that one team is intenionally targeting people in the heads without incontravertable proof is in my mind at least, very unsportsmanslike.

You are not in the head of the person or persons that shot you. You have absolutely no way knowing what their motovation is or if they even know that they hit you in the head. You might not even be right about who shot at you.

If you needed to get a hold of Blackeagle for a gross violation of the rules you could have raised them immediately on channel one, or your commander could have. They were very pro-active in dealing with problems all day long. Complaining now is a day late.

Nosebuckle
04-30-2006, 07:29 PM
I had a good time at BA. From my perspective, one area that needs to be cleaned up is the pervasive shouting at opponents. You know, screaming "I hit you you f_ucker", or "call your f_ucking hits *******." I saw this from both the younger folk and the elders alike. Also like Big Clips said, if you don't have a rag on your head, don't complain if you get shot. Promply secure a red rag to your head and make yourself visible. I couple times I was lazy with this, i.e. not getting it on my head quickly and not making it completely visible.

If more than 2 people would like to substaniate the charges against iP, please do so and contact us in private. We do not intentionally target people's heads; if we did it would be a recurring problem, which it is not.
Thanks to Blackeagle for a great freshmen effort in organization. :)

Hillslam
04-30-2006, 07:31 PM
Thanks to Black Eagle for a well hosted event. Interesting field and I love the location.

Thanks to the roleplayers and refs for giving up their day. I know the surgeon was my favorite sight on the field when I was dead and saw her coming...

Thanks to Kali and US players for a good day. I had no problems all day and enjoyed the event.

I'd also like to thank my camelbak for providing me with all the fresh cool water I could drink... right up until midday when I was left sucking air.

To my fellow SAW gunners, here's one for you: Packing up the gun for the ride back, unload the spring & battery and come to find I had bent the spring. Bent it. Dunno When. Dunno how. And yet the gun ran fine all day. Hooyah Classic Army. Musta been RedSpetz squeezing the boxmag made it run fine...

Bruscomusco
04-30-2006, 07:31 PM
Yeah, thanks to everyone who put this together! I had a great time and I'll definatly be at a next one. Lookin forward to playing with you all in the future. Go U.S.!

Steamer
04-30-2006, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Decoy




And to all, yes. I had dinner with some of the TAC guys and saw their faces/necks with the whelts. This is not a one sided affair.

I guess I am the only one that finds this be be unsportsman like, my bad. Lets let all our honor and morals slip down the drain to follow the masses... [/sarcasm]

Seems a bit harsh...

I dont feel I am letting my honor, morals slip down the drain by not complaining about being hit in the face.
I have had a tooth shot out once, and been hit in the face many times. My safety is my business, I dont expect others to be responsible for it considering what I am getting myself into.
There where roughly 100 people their yesterday with all levels of experience, just like any game, the best way to handle incidents is onsite with all invovled.

red_spetsnaz
04-30-2006, 07:50 PM
Hooah for the boxmag squeezing of Hillslam.:)

I had an awesome time at this event despite the complaints going back and forth. I know that yesterday was BY FAR the MOST gunfire I've heard in a long time at an airsoft event. There was so much ammo flying through that valley at the beginning, it wasn't even funny.

Hillslam
04-30-2006, 08:03 PM
I forgot: Hey how about a hand for all those younger players 13-15 who were at their innaugural airsoft event. Most of these kids were on Kali's side and I gotta say from my vantage point I could see how intimidated they were but on the most part they did well. Yeah they'd get pinned quick and yeah sometimes they were wild with their fire. But the ones I interacted with certainly moved well and listened to orders, a couple even pulled my fat shot-up butt to a corpsman. The rest (fire discipline, etc) they'll learn with experience.

So a big hats off to Black Eagle for taking a hosting chance and letting younger players attend. IMO thats one way we'll grow more good/fun/honorable players for this sport so it doesn't peter out.

Lu
04-30-2006, 08:32 PM
" Hey how about a hand for all those younger players 13-15 who were at their innaugural airsoft event. Most of these kids were on Kali's side and I gotta say from my vantage point I could see how intimidated they were but on the most part they did well."

I would say that to a degree... there was definatly good sportsmanship running with alot of the younger folk. Then to the other, I saw very hazardous disreguards for safety and the game rules on there end. I am in no way trying to single anyone out. This game is over and all we can do is learn from mistakes, but cannot jump on certain instances that we should have fixed right then and there.

I saw alot of the newer guys removing goggles, sometimes in the middle of a fire-fight! This wasn't the usual "trying to clean goggles" excuse, but merely doing it for the hell of it. I think next time safety reasons should definatly be better enforced (not blaiming Black Eagle or others, but then the players themselves) I really don't want to see a 2 or 3 event player lose an eye because of his own stupidity.

Cheating: This honestly had to be one of the most cheating filled events I have ever attended. While I know none of this lays on Black Eagle's shoulders really, and can only be preached so much, it was still a very obvious problem on both sides of the table. I am not here to point fingers by any means, but the cheating got so ridiculous around 2ish that I actually got off the field early. It's sickening to see people spend so much time, money, and resources on such a decent event only to have it literally hosed down by the lack of people calling there hits.

The good news. Black Eagle, out of all the ops I have attended, this was a pretty good event. The terrain was interesting, your role players definatly added something to the event, and it was well run, well managed.

Kali side: good game. The first few hours brought great, fair competition. Some of the early firefights were worth the 3 and a half hour drive alone. Thanks for those who really kept it clean, and fought the good fight.

US Side: Good game guys, definatly brought home the W through those early morning objectives. I can't say that I saw any of the head shooting incidents (I was not on the recieving end nor was I around any of the for-mentioned events) so I stay out of that area. The only thing on the US side I saw was very pointless, immature aruging between certain squads at times. While I know debate is always part of an Op, this was just a waste of time and definatly made the players look childish. I would hope next event that if those players come, remember to respect fellow players on both sides no matter what the situation is at hand.

All in all, a decent Op. See ya guys at the next one.

P.S. TAC, it was a hell of a time runnin' with ya, see ya at the next op.

Son of Liberty
04-30-2006, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Hillslam
a couple even pulled my fat shot-up butt to a corpsman.

Haha, all in a day's work Hillslam. I healed ya a couple times. I even dragged you back.

Decoy
04-30-2006, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by CAR15A2
Decoy,

Its only unsportmanslike if it truly IS intentional. I agree that there was an unusually high number of headshots. I don't know why it happened that way and you don't either.

To claim that one team is intenionally targeting people in the heads without incontravertable proof is in my mind at least, very unsportsmanslike.

You are not in the head of the person or persons that shot you. You have absolutely no way knowing what their motovation is or if they even know that they hit you in the head. You might not even be right about who shot at you.

If you needed to get a hold of Blackeagle for a gross violation of the rules you could have raised them immediately on channel one, or your commander could have. They were very pro-active in dealing with problems all day long. Complaining now is a day late.

I brought this up at the event with the organizers. The reason this is posted, and I should have spoken with iP privately which is my mistake, is that stuff like this needs to be seen/known by all. Even you've stated there is an 'unusually high number of headshots.' so would we like new players to come to the game thinking that the unusually high number of headshots is situation normal, or leaning towards either bad taste or dangerous play?

If you feel that I am being very unsportsman like, so be it. I'd rather have you thinking that of me off the field where the damage I have done is to people's feelings rather than physical damage or honor on the field.

This is another just like MEDs. How can you obtain total proof? If I had approached someone who had been shooting for the head all day and asked "have you been aiming for the head?" and they say "no", what then? If someone violated MEDs and no one other than the shooter and victim are there, where is the proof that the shooter violated the MEDs. I say this because my "proof" is numerous people complaining of the same issue concerning the same people at different times in different situations. Not just "the other side is doing X", but "so and so or team Y has been doing X" adds some creditbility.

The other problem with this is this isn't a violation of anything except the "gentleman's rule". And didn't think too much of it until more than 3 people complained about the same group doing the same thing.



Seems a bit harsh...
I dont feel I am letting my honor, morals slip down the drain by not complaining about being hit in the face.
I have had a tooth shot out once, and been hit in the face many times. My safety is my business, I dont expect others to be responsible for it considering what I am getting myself into.
There where roughly 100 people their yesterday with all levels of experience, just like any game, the best way to handle incidents is onsite with all invovled.

My comment probably wasn't typed the way it was really intented. Between MEDs, higher occurances of baseless headshots, hot guns, not calling hits, etc. not much has been done to either condem these actions or steps to prevent them. My safety is my business...but I also treat myself ACCOUNTABLE for my actions that hurt other or betray my honor. Doing nothing to solve the problem is almost as bad as being apart of the problem. So turning a blind eye to these game play issue that involves not your honor, but the honor of those around you, is almost the same as violating your own honor. Hence why I'm becoming more and more vocal on these boards and at the fields to try to make those around me more honorable and accountable for what they do.



___________


I am sorry if I am in err, or if I struck a nerve within a part of this community. The fact of the matter is only those who pulled the triggers know 100% of the truth of their actions. It is up to their honor/guilt (if they feel any thing) to prevent such things from happening again. I admit that my accusations may only be accusations. We will never know if they were accusations or actual things that happened in the manner implied.

With that said iP, and anyone else there on either side in the game, ask yourself what you may or may not have done that day. If you did nothing wrong (by rules or sportsman like conduct) then you did nothing wrong. If you did something wrong, be honorable and take responsibilities for YOUR actions and hold YOURSELF accountable. Dont do whatever it is you did again....

Bruscomusco
04-30-2006, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by red_spetsnaz


I know that yesterday was BY FAR the MOST gunfire I've heard in a long time at an airsoft event. There was so much ammo flying through that valley at the beginning, it wasn't even funny.

In the first half hour or so it got so crazy in that little valley! It was loud for airsoft guns!

THX
04-30-2006, 08:55 PM
First I would like to again thank everyone that attended and ESPECIALLY the roleplayers. Every single on of them understood and got exactly what we were going for. We were stretched a little thin with RPs dropping out at the last minute and had even more fun in store for everyone if we had a full RP staff but by god the people that did show were some of the best I have ever seen and were up for everything we threw at them.

All of our sponsors AirsoftSmith, Airsoft Arms, and Combat Depot provided much needed props and safety items. Without their generous donations of needed items we could not have provided you this OP for the price. These 3 sponsors are THE backbone of the central Ohio airsoft community (along with airsoftohio) - continue to give them your business.

Also Rockin Ridge Campground and Xtreme CombatZone were GREAT to work with. They were very impressed with all of you and had nothing bad to say about any airsofters (except that noone ate breakfast at their restaurant :). If you are looking for a place to host an event or even just practice they are friendly to airsofters, will bend over backwards, and are the most reasonably priced field around. Black Eagle now holds out weekly practices there because of how cool they have been.

We are working on an official AAR with a point breakdown so watch for that soon.

Black Eagle will be discussing and dealing with everything negative that occured at the OP to try and figure out how to improve the next one and resolves issue if they need resolved.

THX
04-30-2006, 08:56 PM
These are my own personal thoughts - As for headshots this is much like something we have in hockey. Many adult players wear full cages, some wear halfshields, and some wear no face protection at all. I have seen horrible things happen to players only wearing half-shields and no protection other than a mouth guard. Things far worse than any airsoft gun could ever do. That is their choice and many will continue not to wear a full cage even after getting a stick in the mouth because they think it gives them a better feel for their surroundings, they feel lighter, they "breathe" better, its more fashionable, etc. So everything is exactly the same as it is in airsoft except for one important distinction.

Noone looks down on, or makes fun of the guys wearing the full face masks in hockey.

When I wear a helmet cam I wear a full mask for the cameras stability and EVERY time multiple people have something smart to say about the mask. Its always in the form of "arent you man enough?", "Im braver than you because you are wearing a mask", yada yada yada. Until people stop ridiculing players wearing masks there is only one other failsafe against getting hit in the face and that is trusting the muzzle and trigger control of the person on the other end of the gun. Since you cant control that and every other variable THEY are dealing with (fog of war, adrenaline, fear, wind, not being able see clearly) why not protect yourself? Im sure this sounds like total heresy to many of you, and I dont always practice what Im preaching but it is a valid point. Just something to think about.

Grease Man
04-30-2006, 09:00 PM
Decoy,

Our team has always been in good standings with 6mm and have always enjoyed running with you guys, there is simply no reason why we would purposely aim for the head, this game is about fun and not inflicting bodily harm. While i'll admire your dedication to look out and take care of your team, it simply solves nothing on these boards. These problems NEED to be addressed on the field. Let this be a lesson for future events.

Predator
04-30-2006, 09:05 PM
IM sorry for butting in like this but things happen and you just need to figure out what to do better. no names are needed there was probaly more ammo going around than whos to blame. take it as a learing experence and move on.

Son of Liberty
04-30-2006, 09:08 PM
The face shots on both sides were bad, lets just use this as a lesson for next time. And let it go, we are a community, we are supposed to be friends. I did get hit in the face a lot, luckily I had a balaclava on. My Grandfather also complained about some U.S. *No one is getting blamed* for not calling their hits. Both sides did this. We should all be friends, as I said we are a community, we are friends. Use this as a lesson. I know some are really mad about this, but we should all be mature people and address it in a mature, sophisticated manner. I speak for both sides when I say that Kali and U.S. didn't call hits and shot for the head. Lets just put this behind us, set it straight and become a community.
Originally posted by vbtb110
Also, at the end firing the M79 into the lake was pretty funny too :D :D
I would like everyone to know that I used my LAST slug on that lake. And then the funnier part was me trying to get it out and almost pushing Red Spets into the lake.

vbtb110
04-30-2006, 09:09 PM
Very good event to all of you gents. The firefight at the hospital when Spartans went up against iP was just plain amazing. Also, I was shot a few times in the face by iP, it may have been a mistake Im not sure, and also had a few incidents where at the hospital battle guys that had been shot already were being shot again, but stuff like that happens. And your welcome Hillslam, I took you back to a corpsman a few times ;)

Also in mid-match, when all of the Kali guys were advancing toward the creekbed, that was awesome. Just awesome. We were all moving very slowly, then Strikers ran through and we all rallied behind them, pushing back the US team to the opposite side, then the Kali side found 2 aircraft pieces. Also thanks to Decoy for being the and i quote "pack mule", and carrying the stuff back to base. Good job all. You will see me back at Black Aurora 2 (if there is one).

Also, at the end firing the M79 into the lake was pretty funny too :D :D

Steamer
04-30-2006, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Decoy
My comment probably wasn't typed the way it was really intented.

I'll leave it at that.

Thanks

Thatfatmacdude
04-30-2006, 09:19 PM
Man, from all that I am reading about it, can't wate for OP: BA2. *Hint to Task Force Black Eagle*

Decoy
04-30-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Grease Man[iP]
Decoy,

Our team has always been in good standings with 6mm and have always enjoyed running with you guys, there is simply no reason why we would purposely aim for the head, this game is about fun and not inflicting bodily harm. While i'll admire your dedication to look out and take care of your team, it simply solves nothing on these boards. These problems NEED to be addressed on the field. Let this be a lesson for future events.

Like I said, my mistake. But let me pose this question, given the time frame of the events that occured? Either we address this on the field with tempers flaring (and they were at the time), we address this by stopping the game to have a 'chat' about it (not likely), we let those who are angry leave the field/event and we never resolve this issue, we discuss this after the event. Following the later for other people's personal safety (the temper issue) and keeping people who love airsoft playing airsoft (not letting people leave). As stated, once I was able to 'check out' my squad member for the extent of the damage to his tooth, inform the event staff of the incident your cars were already pulling out. So due to bad timing all around I chose a poor medium to bring this out.


THX,
for the hockey anology (I play too) why are there refs in the game or why aren't there pads made to protect the goalie's back sides? ;) I have to make my players on the ice willing not to start anything but willing to protect me (the goalie). No matter how much padding I'd wear, it wouldn't in my last game stopping one player from kneeing me in the head each time he "interfered" with me. There is a line in hockey for player's conduct being between ok and unsportsman like, and that line is enforced. We don't have that in airsoft.

Grease Man
04-30-2006, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Decoy
[B]Like I said, my mistake. But let me pose this question, given the time frame of the events that occured? Either we address this on the field with tempers flaring (and they were at the time), we address this by stopping the game to have a 'chat' about it (not likely), we let those who are angry leave the field/event and we never resolve this issue, we discuss this after the event. Following the later for other people's personal safety (the temper issue) and keeping people who love airsoft playing airsoft (not letting people leave). As stated, once I was able to 'check out' my squad member for the extent of the damage to his tooth, inform the event staff of the incident your cars were already pulling out. So due to bad timing all around I chose a poor medium to bring this out.



Honestly disscussing these things at the event seems best to me still, even if its during the game.

THX
04-30-2006, 09:46 PM
Decoy - Im a goalie also but you may have missed the point of my analogy. There is nothing really stopping anyone from wearing a mask in airsoft and 99.9% of these incidents wouldnt matter other than the shame that should be felt by the player spraying someone in the face when they shouldnt have. You can wear a mask to protect yourself, you can choose not to and rely on the people you play with or we can play in groups of 5 in an 85x200 field with 3 referees and a dozen off-field refs watching to make sure noone breaks the rules. Sounds an aweful lot like speedball. If you are cheating, not calling your outs or arent practicing muzzle/trigger control you are dragging the game down the speedball road and we all know what that looks like.

shooter77
04-30-2006, 10:15 PM
first of all i want to say thanks to blackeagle and the whole staff who participated in black aurora. i want to say thanks to all the sponsors, and to everyone who attended. this was my first event ever as a newbie and i loved it, but for all the arguments being said about face hits, not calling shots etc. i witnessed quite a bit. not taking U.S side or KALI, but i was on U.S side 3rd squad marines under big pappa ans hondo. special; thanks and good job leading, but anyways cheating was going on bad from the kali side later in the day. when 3rd squad and tac and 08 were in the city or village we were all together mowin down the kalis and they were not calling any hits. i personally hit one guy at about 40 ft with a slu of bb and no call out. he retreated back. and the chemical gas bomb what was that. calling soldiers out left and right.

well anyways we experienced the good and the bad. we need not to make enemies we are all a team and do this with honor. i really appreciate everything and i will attend more events.

special thanks to the 08,and big clips
wisconsin team who lead the 3rd squad
and to blackeagle for making this a safe and fun filled day and to airsoftsmith
combat depot and airsoft arms.

great job for making my experience a great one.

out

Loki
04-30-2006, 10:17 PM
To Black Eagle:
That was a truly AMAZING first event, and the best event i've attended since Irene. I had actually drawn many parallels between this and Irene, and I must say that is one hell of a compliment.

I personally got shot in the dome as well, and I just let it roll. I never found out who it was but I did yell something along the lines of "NOT IN THE FACE! NOT IN THE FACE!!!!!" at them jokingly. You just have to let this stuff roll, accidents will happen.

I do kinda agree with Decoy in that the person firing a weapon is ultimately responsible for any damage done. I also agree with THX in saying that YOU are responsible for your personal safety and well-being, and if that means wearing a Shemagh/Mouthguard/Paintball mask/etc, then so be it. I personally have started using a Shemagh that's 100% cotton, and believe me it was HOT, but I dealt with it, because I like my chompers.

There were a few people at the event that had attitude problems, but that happens at every game. For instance, I had some random kid pass me and whilst I was emptying a PTW magazine into a dirt mound and say "well thats one way to burn your motor up" in a rather haughty tone. I also heard some guy yelling out "get some", and I was truly waiting to run into that guy so I could shoot him and say to him "looks like I just got some", LOL.

I can't say I was really unhappy with the game, even given all of the "incidents" that happened. I think the Refs/OC's did one HELL of a job.

I would happily go back to the game in a heartbeat, and look forward to the next chance I will be able to do so.

THanks to Tac for letting me play with them, 08th and Hillslam for giving me some of their water and other misc things. Finally thanks once again to Black Eagle for putting on one hell of an event, you all deserve a big pat on the back.

THX
04-30-2006, 11:18 PM
I just found a link to this mornings issue of the Kaliningrad Chronicle - must be their local newspaper? Might be interesting with all that stuff we've heard on the news about the spyplane crashing over there...

http://forums.blackeagleairsoft.net/viewtopic.php?p=2785#2785

output01x
04-30-2006, 11:34 PM
Well, I guess I'll make my thanks and rants.

Black Eagle: Thanks for the game. I truly had a great time. When are you guys accepting payment for Black Aurora 2? :p

US side: Good job with that battle cry in the morning - we really showed those Kalis!

TAC: Had a great time playing and chillin' with you guys. See ya'll at SS2.

IP: I had a great time at the hospital with you guys, but you guys attract too much attention lol. Oh, and thanks for the bottle of water - much appreciated.

Shooter: Where are my thanks for drivin' your *** down there? (jk) And by the way, no more Waffle House for you!

The 08th's interpreter (sorry I don't recall your name): you did a great job. Thanks for your help and I hope you are feeling better.

Anyway, the game was awesome. Yeah cheating happened, but then, it always happens. A little advice - if you are going to cheat, don't make it blatantly obvious. Tssk tssk.

And now for a little constructive criticism - Black Eagle, (1) I think it would have helped if you had watched for and penalized more people for cheating and unsportsman like behavior. (2) I think you could have gotten away with charging $20 for this event, especially since this event was worth more than that! (3) Also, a raffle would have been nice - its always fun to watch people win stuff.

Once again, thanks, it was awesome.

Glaeken
05-01-2006, 12:44 AM
Black Eagle,
Way to go, bros. I think that this was one of the outstanding events that should be remembered for more than what's been typed so far.
Well thought out, well executed, and overall one heck of an event.

The role-players did an outstanding job. Way to go, folks.
I would like to personally thank the 'surgeon' lady for sacrificing herself so many times while saving me. She took a lot of rounds in her valiant humanitarian effort.
There were many times that she was going from Kali wounded to US wounded, healing everyone! She didn't know the words "enemy". All she saw were wounded soldiers - some screaming "...don't leave me, I bleed!" :D.

I'd also like to thank the man (don't recall your name, sir), wearing black BDUs and a blue shirt, for his gallant efforts at the valley village early in the day. Well done, sir!

Mr. Banker, it was nice seeing you out there today. I hope you had fun because we certainly enjoyed having you out there. Thanks.

Again, well done Black Eagle. Welcome to the world of event organization. I'm glad to see role-players in events becoming a 'norm'.
Register me for BA-2 today, please!



Gypsy Squad,
I'm quite proud of you guys. We may have had the largest percentage of younger players, some new...some old like me, but you guys showed you have guts.
Your willingness to listen to my pre-game speech was greatly appreciated. You made me very proud of you by executing what we talked about throughout the day.
I'd like to thank you personally, but like I said, I forget names quickly. Rest assured that I'll remember your faces, though. Over time I'll remember your callsigns. ;)
I would like to thank my fire team leaders, Red Spetz and Assault. I know their names because we talked over the radio so often.
You guys got the jobs done. You acted as my 'sergeants' and you did it well. 'Your' guys did what was needed and that's what it is all about. You kept together and did things as a team. Well done!

You guys pushed with us and followed us into some of the heaviest battles AO has seen. You didn't hesitate when I asked you to take 'Point'.
I can't ask for much more from my men than what you delivered.
All I do ask is that you remember what we talked about; during the pre-game speech and sometimes during the battles. We spoke of some of the things that keep us together. We have to watch out for each other. Help each other. Be there for each other.
These are the things that you should take with you for the future.
Target acquisition, trigger control, range estimation, and techniques, all come with experience. You'll get that, but it takes time.
Remember the basics: Watching out for each other, taking care of each other, being there for your battle buddy, and above all else let your honor stand without question. Never sacrifice your quest for playing honorably for some game objective.
As you progress with airsoft, keep control of your temper. No matter the odds against you, no matter the weight of the games objectives; your own personal honor must stand out - and stand true.
I say these things merely as last words as I send you out on your own.
(Yeah, I know many of you have played for a while, but I say this like a 'coach' to his players.)
Continue to make me proud by doing your part in upholding the values that this sport demands. Honor, Integrity, Sportsmanship.




On a side note, there are times that despite all your efforts to maintain these values slip-ups occur.

Case in point:
I was in the valley. I had been hit and was waiting my time when a group of US players pushed to my position.
(Keep in mind that up to that point the only healing I had was from the 'surgeon' lady - who only had to 'touch' you to heal you.)
Like I said, I was hit and wounded. I eventually was able to persuade a US medic to heal me. I think it was to get me to shut up, but he would have to confirm that.
He 'touched' me and, thinking I was miraculously healed, I stood up and proceeded to double-tap the legs of the US players surrounding me. They were astonished and thinking to themselves that mischief was afoot. Rightly so they promptly informed me that MEDICs required 1min of healing time. Oops, I'd forgotten that quirky little rule when the adrenaline rushed into my heart when I made my move.
The guys had all donned their red rags despite the fact that I was wrong. Of course I made it right by saying "you guys aren't dead, I was wrong, sorry".
I then asked this medic to heal me properly. Good-naturedly the medic informed me he was way too busy to give me the 1min required for a 'legal' healing.

Another case:
I was behind a tree with US players approaching from the wooded area. I was quickly hit and put on my red rag. Minutes later a medic low-crawled to me and rendered aid. In my haste to fire on the attackers, I reached for my pistol before taking the time to remove my red rag. The US player I hit was puzzled by my action. From his point of view, I was a non-threat because I had a red rag on my helmet. Consequently he didn't bother to target me.
embarrassed, I quickly threw off the red rag but by that time the damage was done.
The player and I spoke across the distance and I can only hope that he understands. He took the hit, donning his red rag, as did I. This was to 'punish' myself for the mistake.

So, mistakes can happen.
We just have to remember that when the game is over and it's Miller Time, we can remain friends. We don't have to be 'best friends', but never should our actions on the field interfere with our camaraderie. Like someone has already pointed out, we are a community. Communities must help each other. If we lose our humanity we will lose everything.
With this game being a competition, competitive behavior is fine. Good-natured 'ribbing' and macho bravado is all part of the action. I don't have any problem with someone 'acting' the part. We are, after all, imitating tough guys/gals.
When I play the Russian mafia godfather at Blind Fury I 'act' the part. I do 'nasty' deeds, I talk 'trash', I have people 'whacked', I 'act' like a tough guy. Those that know me know I'm not some crazed psychopath. But, I do play one from time to time.
That's all part of the game.
We're still friends afterward. We can laugh about these things later...sometimes for years.
There are those that can't wait to pay me back for having been 'whacked'. But, that doesn't mean we can verbally beat each other up or speak to one another using language that crosses all boundaries of decorum.
Don't let bravado turn into something ugly.

That's what it boils down to - the way things are handled when mistakes occur. Keep a level head.
You may be madder than you've ever been. The outcome of the game may be at stake. Still, you've got to at least try and remember we're not REAL enemies. You don't have to like everyone, but you must remain in control of yourself. There are no censors to say what you can or can't say. There are, however, personal ethics and moral character that should guide you in your behavior.
You should remember that actions speak louder than words. Don't try to mimic deplorable actions with deplorable words. Demand, from yourself, positive character and action.

Be willing to admit your mistakes and then take steps to demonstrate your character positively. Be willing to apologize if you do step over the line. It takes courage to do that, but you'll be a better person for it.
We constantly emulate courage on the battlefield. Why not extend that courage to personal life. Take that courage with you where ever you go. Don't let it show only when you are under fire and pushing forward.
Show it when it's needed the most - when it really and truly counts.




OK, enough about that.




I had a lot of fun at this game. I'm sure most of you did too.
There are several moments that, despite a 'war' going on, funny things happened.
I saw two guys shoot themselves in the foot rather than listen to any more of my 'ravings'. Yes, ravings.
I was crying about blood loss and calling them "...capitalistic, murderous, pig-dogs...". Screaming for help from a 'surgeon' that really didn't want to endure the hail of gunfire that accompanied her rendering aid.
So, I think "capitalistic Greaseman" can tell the story from his view point, right? :)

There was a moment that a US player got a round of applause from a very dead group of Kali players. His quiet prone position did some major damage. He remained motionless, stoic in his effort. He took quick shots and was finally silenced, but his gallantry deserved recognition. We gave it to him with applause.

These are the things I take with me. I think everyone should look for defining moments to be cherished.


Black Eagle, sign me up for BA-2. I'm there, bros.

john
05-01-2006, 01:59 AM
1st forgive my sick sense of humor but i thought both of these from the aar were hilarious

#1We regret to inform you that Kaliningrads beloved Mayor Suri Yavenko was gunned down in cold blood by US forces while at work in the Capital Building. A North Korean was exchanging fire with the US from his window of the embassy wing of the Capital Building. The mayor was pronounced dead at 12:06pm from 3 gunshot wounds to the HEAD. He will be greatly missed by all of Kaliningrads residents.



i don't know what happened here i just laughed when i read it is all.





#2 2 Kaliningrad University student protesters led a rally against the Kaliningrad mercenaries in Polessk Saturday afternoon. Both were later found with their throats slit outside of the Kali headquarters. Their families request that any donations be sent to the Regional Hospital.




i don't know what happened here either ...Cause i stuck both of those pigs more than twice!! lol lol lol. But i'll have you know they weren't just protesting. The one gentlemen actually pushed me. lol Anyone who knows me?...!!&$ knows what was to happen next.

Official spetnaz response.

Any claims that russian officers have committed war crimes are unfounded. 2 protesters were taken into custody for questioning. private HNIC of spetnaz special forces was ordered to interrogate the two suspects known to have relations with US occupants of kal. during the interrogation the suspects refused to provide their source of communication with the terrorist west. With the recent capture of spetnaz officers this was considered high treason under the wartime doctrine. during the interrogation the male prisoner became violent with HNIC forcing a lethal conclusion. the female was tried judged and executed immediately by... HNIC... Both protestors have confessions on file in moscow available for any un council review and authentication. Sorry for the blood on them.

lol

Down with the dictator Down with the dictator do... ..looandflakf garggle garggle. thud.

H-Nugget.

ps bigclips the guy you spoke of was ray ray. who just discovered he lost his rag. upon discovering he lost his 2nd rag of the day(i know he had 2 cause i gave them to him).. he moved to sit next to redeye who was also hit. they were both sharing a rag (meaning they both had the rag draped over their heads when he was shot admittedly by you.). i am sure he didn't mind getting shot.. getting shot again... standing and getting shot again.. redragging with redeye and then getting shot again was enough. All while still visibly hit within reason. he received a 3rd replacement right after. It was another player who stuck up for him. Ray Ray took his bbs like a man. i am just curious if the kali forces lit you up while trekking back to get your 3rd rag? Or if they could see that your hand was raised or you were sitting next to another dead soldier to share a rag for your 5 minute bleed out? how many times did you get hit? (just busting your balls.)

i am not trying to harp on you at all. just using this as an example of someone who was in the same situation you mentioned only they paid for it. And their payment was your .20s. it could have happened to you too. i think he handled the realization that he had lost all his rags well. He also didn't make a big deal about getting lit up because of it. Another player noticed the punishment he was taking and thought it.. excessive.

This was the only prob i had during the day. Getting shot after dead. As i am responsible for myself i quickly learned to cover my face after being hit. Even still i was taking bbs to the red rag covering my face. not 1 second or 2 but for the entire 5 minute bleed out.

this should not detract from the honor black eagle deserves for their event. nor should it be viewed as me wanting to point fingers. i know big clips is an honorable airsoft player. i just wanted to remind (and sorry to say your name clips before you rebut i am not saying you did anything wrong.) everyone that things aren't always what they seem from your side. often times there is a simple explanation. Also to remind people to please not shoot dead soldiers. This is something that is going to happen. and if you are going to an event expect it to. i could never say intent. Only effect.

This event was policed more than any event i have been to. Any player looking to go to a black eagle event should not get the impression that they are soft on cheating. This is not the case. i saw multiple instances where a cheater was talked to by a ref. i have never seen this happen in airsoft before. the simple fact someone was caught cheating by a ref is a landmark all it's own. they also kept in mind that there are always 2 perspectives when it comes to cheating in airsoft and didn't assume the players intent.. like i said huge step forward. sslps

Glaeken
05-01-2006, 04:58 AM
I'd like to speak on a subject that may border on "off topic".
I think it's relevant because the subject has reared it's ugly head in this thread as well as several past event AARs.


The subject I'm talking about is demanding that we pay attention to the founding values upon which airsoft is based - honor.

We can all talk about honor and whether we, as individuals, have it or not. But, we must, if this sport is to survive, come together as a whole and start demanding honor from ourselves, our teammates, and our friends.

I'm not going to point fingers or say 'this' team or 'that' team is at fault or pick out any individuals.
I will say that I back Decoy's concepts and the point he is trying to make.
I think everyone here should also. Both sides of this coin.
Because if you aren't you are giving tacit approval to behavior that is unacceptable.



Now, hear me out.

There is no way that there could possibly be as much 'cheating' as is talked about after these games with the amount of red-rag clad players I see all the time.

There is also no excuse for the following statement: "I had to have hit him."
This statement makes me want to vomit.
What do you mean you had to have hit him? Do you have 'smart' BBs? Are you some sharpshooting god or something? Do you have magical powers that provide you with unerring or anti-gravity effecting BBs?
Get real, man. Every time you pull the trigger does not mean you automatically hit your target.
Sure, the BB looks, at first, to be flying straight and true. But, in it's last few seconds of travel it veers off course or impacts a branch or leaf.
I've seen it happen with my own rounds.

Remember, this isn't a video game and the rounds don't automatically impact where the cross-hairs are set. It doesn't happen that way.
This is real-life and physics is all too prevalent.
So is Mr. Murphy of Murphy's Law fame.
I don't know how many times good 'ole Mr. Murphy gets his grubby hands on my BBs. Either in the magazines or in-flight.

Also, I've seen with my eyes some amazing "Matrix" moves. I've watched, horrified, as some of my perfectly fired rounds are dodged by a very vigilant player. He sees them approach (due to the rather slow fps of BBs...yes, 400fps is still slow at range) and with 'Neo-like' reflexes is able to bend his body to avoid the hit. Amazing, and quite true.
I've done it myself. Not often, maybe twice in my gaming career, but I know it's possible.

I've emptied entire magazines of BBs into bushes or the cover of players and not had a single round hit them.
I've been behind some good cover ...maybe some bushes with thick, intertwining brambles.....and been completely safe from BBs despite the 'hosing' coming from the assaulters.
Every time you fire does not automatically equal a hit.

With the amount of gear that everyone wears, the physical sensation of BB impacts is greatly reduced. You know as well as I do that more often BB impacts are heard rather than felt.
Exposed skin impacts or to the spot on one's sides that aren't covered by vest or accoutrements are easily felt. No doubt about those.
So, if a player is firing his weapon, ear next to his weapon, gearbox making all kinds of noise, his ability to hear impacts is greatly diminished. Give the dude the benefit of the doubt.
I saw such an occurrence this game.
I was firing with my pistol (battery dead in my AEG) and saw 2 of my rounds bounce off the vest and ammo pouch of my target. He made no indication that he even noticed the hit. He was firing his AEG at the time and I know for a fact that he actually didn't notice the hit.
Did I then aim for his face, hell no. I shot a couple more his way once he stopped shooting (incidently he heard my errant rounds hit his tree and promptly returned accurate fire!).



I'm saying this to demonstrate the fact that sometimes things aren't always 'cheating'. Sometimes you have to really observe what is happening before you pass judgement.
Don't jump to the conclusion that someone is 'cheating' because you simply pulled the trigger and they didn't immediately pull out their red rag-o-death.

Relax. Take a breath. Calm down. Chill out. Count to ten. Do what ever you have to do to retain control of yourself.
Don't, for pete's sake, start immediately screaming "foul". Don't start yelling and cussing the person out. That's uncalled for and just makes you look like the jerk.

The subject of 'wounded' getting hit is often the nature of this game. You're in combat and rounds are flying around....those errant rounds talked about above...you're likely to get hit.
However, if you are the shooter start paying attention!
I understand that these red rags aren't body suits. They don't cover alot or show up all the time. My red rag sometimes only shows on the back of my head. I move it into view after a few rounds tells me that I'm not displaying the thing. I don't become a jerk and neither should you. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

I even heard a few times players asking me if I'm out or not prior to them 'hosing' me. You guys know who you are and I applaud you for it. That is playing with honor, folks.

If you are indeed one of those types that think it's fun to shoot wounded and pretend that they are 'errant' shots start mending your ways now.
If you hold some grudge because of some previous assumption or presumed behavior and are taking it out on players while they're wounded; get rid of it. I don't care how, just leave it at home.
Shooting wounded in a vain attempt to prove a point or act out some aggression does not make you a 'tough guy'.



NOW, this in no way is saying that you have excuses to use if you are indeed knowingly not calling hits.
I don't care what reason you imagine for doing so. It's wrong. It will destroy this entire sport. If you are actually not calling hits then you are acting like a low-life scumbag. I don't want you to return to the game.


Saying all this is coming to a point.
I agree with Decoy's call for community awareness and community demand for this crap to stop. Be it the knowingly not calling hit...if you do indeed do that....or the constant banter and complaint about it on these past events threads.
It's starting to make me sick. In fact, I get sick every time I see a post wrought with such accusations - truth or not.

I am asking, nea DEMANDING, for everyone's support in demanding honorable action from their team. If you see one of your teammates get hit and they don't call it, by God tell them and make them acknowledge the hit. Don't allow it to continue. Tell them they are going to give your team a bad reputation.
Even if that person honestly didn't notice the impact due to noise or gear, or any myriad of reasons.
Demand it.

If we don't start doing something about this now it's close to getting way, way out of hand.
In fact, it's on the verge right now of completely destroying the very fabric of our beloved sport.

This event, Black Aurora, was a fantastic event. Now, it's been completely overshadowed by this nonsense.
Black Eagle donated their time in organizing, securing the playing field, role-playing, and 'reffing' this event and we thank them by acting like fools on the field?
What kind of immature action is this?

Each one of us has to look at themselves in the mirror. What kind of character stares back at you?
Are you a jerk waiting for the slightest thing to set you off? Are you just waiting to demonstrate just how many curse words you know? Are you knowingly not calling your hits?
If you are, then stay home. We [the community] don't need you. The player's don't need you. The game certainly doesn't need or want you.
Stay home and pose in front of your mirror and be 'Billy-bad-boy' with yourself. Stay home, take pictures of all your gear, and pat yourself on the back for being the 'baddest' thing since King Kong. I don't care. Just don't come back.




So, in conclusion, who is with me on this issue?
Are you willing to demonstrate you honor and positive character by 'policing' your own?
Are you willing to admit that you aren't Annie Oakley?
Are you willing to demand that you, yourself, play with the utmost honor and sportsmanship?
Are you willing to bite you tongue and not use so much profanity on the battlefield?

Bravado is fine, but don't let it turn ugly.
Competition is fine, but don't let it ruin your humanity.
Shooting each other in-game is fine, but don't become REAL enemies.
Seriousness about the sport is fine, but don't lose the "FUN".


This must start with us as individuals if we are to save what we love.
Do your part.

India
05-01-2006, 07:06 AM
Here are my comments as the banker.

1. I was very impressed with both sides' attempts to secure my favor (and the other villagers). An unknown U.S. Special Forces member twice sacrificed his life to try to get me to his HQ to return some of the money they stole (in exchange for information I'm sure). Kali forces were very polite (particularly the squad leaders), gave me food, and I'd like to give a special THANK YOU to Strikers who told me they'd get some of my money back and actually did. No, it wasn't the entire amount, but that doesn't matter.

2. I got a little nervous while heading back to the mine to do some work. I was on the coastal highway when a few Special Forces members searched me. Everything seemed fine until one of them noticed my beeper, then it got tense. He raised his weapon quickly and demanded I back up and get on my knees, saying, "I WILL LIGHT YOU UP MAN!!" Considering what happened with the suicide bomber, I guess I can't blame them. It turned out okay, but I had to change my shorts after that. :D

3. I was sitting in he bank, minding my own business, munching some pretzels, when all hell broke loose and my building was occupied by Kali forces. I dropped everything and got my butt out of there. This happened several times actually, but this time was special. When it was all over, I returned to the bank and was horrified to see that my pretzel box had been assassinated!! Two clean holes, center mass!! I demand a full UN investigation into this atrocity!! That box was a civilian non-combatant, and I will not rest until the murderer is found and punished!!

4. Later in the game, I saw something that really impressed me. Sierra (Black Eagle) was fighting at the bank, got hit, and got healed. She began fighting again, but forgot to take the rag off her head. Once she realized her mistake, rather than just say "oops" and keep going, she called herself out again as a way of apologizing to her opponents. Very nice Sierra!

Steamer
05-01-2006, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by jmstallard


2. I got a little nervous while heading back to the mine to do some work. I was on the coastal highway when a few Special Forces members searched me. Everything seemed fine until one of them noticed my beeper, then it got tense. He raised his weapon quickly and demanded I back up and get on my knees, saying, "I WILL LIGHT YOU UP MAN!!" Considering what happened with the suicide bomber, I guess I can't blame them. It turned out okay, but I had to change my shorts after that. :D


:D Please believe none of us would have actually pulled the trigger on you being that close, we where just playing the role. You role players did such a good job we just got into it!

India
05-01-2006, 07:29 AM
No, I didn't think you guys would actually shoot, but it was still intense because the idea that my "beeper" could have been a weapon never dawned on me until that moment, so I was pretty confused for a minute. I just wore it to complete the businessman look.

Edit: That's why I came out of character temporarily and explained that it wasn't actually a beeper. Once it dawned on me why you were concerned about it, I felt kind of stupid.

Puma
05-01-2006, 09:11 AM
I was that US SF person who was killed twice trying to get you back to the HQ. Note to self, avoid bankers.

xray
05-01-2006, 09:12 AM
Thanks to all that attened the game. I'm glad to see that you guys had a good time and was no serious injury. I'm glad to see the good comments and the rants also. I believe that communication is needed to make this situation better. This was my first time as an organizer/ ref. I have been in several events and enjoyed most of them and see what you all are saying.

The problems I see are these: 1 you shoot at someone and you think they're hit. If they don't call there out shoot again don't scream at them to call there out. I seen this throught out the day most of which the people where in brush and unless I'm directly beside them or in the line of fire it's hard to say they are hit. 2 There was alot of head shots on both sides I think THX does bring up a point the saftey equipment is there to wear. 3 People get bent out of shape on the field and instantly argue about the situation there in without thinking. Notify the event staff if the need is there. 4 If you do get in a situation that is bad enough to notify the event staff besure to find out who you're haveing a problem with. It's hard to determine the exact person if you don't get a callsign or stay in the area where they are to point them out so the problem to be addressed.

There we're instances where people had a problem and didn't want to say who they had altercations with or saw cheating. I know nobody wants to rat out the other guy. If it's that bad maybe you should. I could have given both sides minus points for unsportman like conduct. I felt it was unnessary, maybe I should have. I appoligize for not seeming to do anything, I just felt that they would have been off setting and result in the same point outcome. Even if the would have changed the outcome I would have hated to change it do to somebody's bad conduct for that side to lose the OP.

I would appericate feedback from you guys and hope to the next event organizers to pick up the ball from the feedback here. I know the next event I will do so thank you.

India
05-01-2006, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Puma
I was that US SF person who was killed twice trying to get you back to the HQ. Note to self, avoid bankers.

I felt bad because I didn't *have* any information for you. I just wanted my money back.

:p

gertrude
05-01-2006, 09:22 AM
Umm. Blame Loki. He had it. (The money). And CAR. Blame them both. ;)

Puma
05-01-2006, 09:23 AM
I should have just shot you ;) . Oh well, just trying to do my job. I did have a blast. Look forward to the next little shin dig ya'll have.

I also am waiting on those pics.

Atomic
05-01-2006, 09:24 AM
My .02s on good sportsmanship:

1. NEVER assume you are hitting the guy you are aiming at. Your $1000 tricked out all-Systema upgraded CQB cannot guarantee that your $.002 plastic BBs are hitting their intended target.

2. NEVER assume that you will hit ANYTHING (execept brush) when blindly firing through brush, no matter the volume you fire.

3. ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt that to the person you are assuming is cheating you. We wear lots of equipment and the gnat-like impact of a plastic BB often goes unnoticed. This especially applies to a running target.

4. NEVER resort to cursing and acting a fool. ALWAYS play like the local news is doing a story on Airsoft. Play like you are on TV (or how a sensible person would play on TV.)

5. And for Heaven's sake, lighten up. You aren't really in Somalia or Afghanistan. If you do get hit, be a gentleman and respawn or wait for a medic. Every time you cheat you are robbing someone else of their well-deserved kill. They outfoxed you and your $1000 all-Systema upgraded CQB, just accept it.

**Edit** Refs (or the need for them) was the downfall of paintball. Watch the speedball games on TV. The players keep on playing hit after hit until a ref calls them out. I would rather play with 6-8 guys at my home field than come to an event that relied on refs instead of honor.

Lu
05-01-2006, 10:30 AM
To say that there was alot less cheating then people are saying is a tainted statement. I know there does seem to be a bug for the "fire in a theatre" syndrome when it comes to cheating with airsoft, but to say there was non Saturday is blasphemy. All in all I just hope at the next event there is non to the level at which alot of us saw (and I am not siding here, I heard Kali's speaking about US all day to.) As was formentioned with the need of refs in paintball. What is sad about this is that most paintball competitions have a true prize, most tournaments have cash prizes into the thousands, that's something that the average cheater would die for to the end. I remeber one tournament I went to years ago they gave away 5 brand new Mustangs to the first place team. Of course the cheating was horendous. I would just hope that while everyone wants to "win" at a event, that there pride and respect by their peer players would come first. Sorry if I am ranting, I just hate to see a good Op tarnished by a poor few.

Once again, BE, thanks for the good event. Hope to see more of them in the future.

Big Clips
05-01-2006, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Atomic
1. NEVER assume you are hitting the guy you are aiming at. Your $1000 tricked out all-Systema upgraded CQB cannot guarantee that your $.002 plastic BBs are hitting their intended target.

And if you see BBs bounce off them through your scope?

2. NEVER assume that you will hit ANYTHING (execept brush) when blindly firing through brush, no matter the volume you fire.

3. ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt that to the person you are assuming is cheating you. We wear lots of equipment and the gnat-like impact of a plastic BB often goes unnoticed. This especially applies to a running target.

Again, for this, there is no excuse. You dont take your hits, your an a$$. Simply put. Yes it happens. But when it happens and happens and happens, then you have to draw a line somewhere.

4. NEVER resort to cursing and acting a fool. ALWAYS play like the local news is doing a story on Airsoft. Play like you are on TV (or how a sensible person would play on TV.)

I didnt see where the arguments were, but I heard them from all over the field.

5. And for Heaven's sake, lighten up. You aren't really in Somalia or Afghanistan. If you do get hit, be a gentleman and respawn or wait for a medic. Every time you cheat you are robbing someone else of their well-deserved kill. They outfoxed you and your $1000 all-Systema upgraded CQB, just accept it.

Systema dosent make a CQB, so dont be a douche.

**Edit** Refs (or the need for them) was the downfall of paintball. Watch the speedball games on TV. The players keep on playing hit after hit until a ref calls them out. I would rather play with 6-8 guys at my home field than come to an event that relied on refs instead of honor.

This I think is the point that is trying to be made.

Players are going to make or break our sport. So the responsibility lies in you the player, not the people watching you cheat.

Atomic
05-01-2006, 11:31 AM
Slow down, take a deep breath.

Cheaters are cheaters, and it happens. See #5 in my list, which is directed toward them.

The rest of my points stand. The most annoying thing in paintball was the "how bout it buddy" that started with the first trigger pull.

Systema makes upgrades for all guns. Hence "Systema-upgraded."

Big Clips
05-01-2006, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Atomic
Systema makes upgrades for all guns. Hence "Systema-upgraded."

If you used all systema parts in a CQB, the cost of the parts and the gun itself would run you far less than 1000.

By saying $1000 and systema in the same sentace it is common practice you are refering to the PTW, a weapon which you obviously do not own and prolly never will, and only want to knock someone who spent money on a far superior weapon.

You have no right to accuse someone of making a dumb purchase for somthing they enjoy. You shouldnt be an a$$ and rip on them everychance you get to make yourself feel better either.

What really boils blood is when players who take the game seriously and play it like it should be played have to deal with an army of people with death rags on launching BBs and not taking hits. I saw a SAW (heh) put at least 100 BBs downrange into a mass of Kali troops and I didnt see one person wearing a deathrag (who didnt allready start with it on) halt the advance.

Grease Man
05-01-2006, 12:03 PM
Clips,

It was just a phrase used to show that even the people with really expensive guns and gear can get shot by a kid with a $250 mp5. There is a veery small trend in airsoft where you see/hear of people who spend $500 on gear and thousands on guns, go out and just because they have that much money into equiptment think they are invincible and "better" than just the "average" airsoft player. Your taking it completely wrong.

Atomic
05-01-2006, 12:06 PM
Let me PM you since this is going nowhere fast...

**Edit**

Thanks, GreaseMan. I absolutely believe that fancy weapons and gear have an effect on [a very small] bunch of players that leads them to believe that they really are better than everyone else. Then they cannot grasp the concept of getting taken out by a kid with a $100 GBB. Sometimes you have bad days, maybe you should just practice more, but call out when hit. Some people are just immature and cheat at everything.

I wanted to bring up this line of discussion after my last event, but thought it would detract from the game, which was an overall good time.

Big Clips
05-01-2006, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Grease Man[iP]
It was just a phrase used to show that even the people with really expensive guns and gear can get shot by a kid with a $250 mp5.

I know, it makes it even easier when these youngins are blind firing, not taking hits, and wearing death rags as camo.

There is a veery small trend in airsoft where you see/hear of people who spend $500 on gear and thousands on guns,go out and just because they have that much money into equiptment think they are invincible and "better" than just the "average" airsoft player. Your taking it completely wrong.

Yes there are people like that, but most players with cash are usually very respectable players in terms of getting shot.

Hillslam for example. (Not to knock you buddy) But when I first heard of him I said to myself "ohh no, another rich guy" because I thought the same thing you said above. However my thoughts turned out to be just the opposite. Hillslam is by far one of the most respectable and it one of my favorite players on the field today. (We need more Hillslams)

However when people cheat, it gives me this nasty feeling inside, and makes me lose respect for those who are doing it.

The systema thing also bothers me, because I notice that the only people who really knock them, are people who have never even held one.

The $250mp5 yea, you can get shot. You remember the kid at FUBAR this past summer with the two MP5ks? Who came running on our position, took no less than 500 BBs to the chest and then ducked under a barrel to keep playing? This was virtully the same thing.

Grease Man
05-01-2006, 12:43 PM
clips,

I agree with you %100. But there is a trend, and I simply said it to explain what Atomic was trying to say. Thats all. Atomic was not knocking a systema PTW/SCR (or whatever it is, I cant keep track of it) or systema parts in anyway. I think his point was that just because you have all the fancy stuff with all the bells and whissles, that doesnt make you invincible on the field. I've seen people lug their Paraclete rigs with armor plates, three day assauly packs fully loaded, and tricked out $3000 guns into battle, get hit by a BB in the first minute and get extemely mad and accuse everyone of cheating only because they got hit right away and have to lug all their gear back to respawn. This was nobody from Ohio, it was at Irene2, nor have I ever seen anyone in Ohio act this way. I like all the gear and if I had the money I would buy it as well, but just dont think your invincible. Atomic wasnt talking about anyone specifically but simply talking about a small trend that happens every once and a while.

but anyways this is way off topic now, so i'll shut up.

Violator
05-01-2006, 01:01 PM
The arguing on this thread can stop now. We don't need that. There are enough issues that have come to light, don't make it worse.

Arguing about details in somebodies post is a waste of everybodies time. Atomic is trying to make a point. I have a PTW and I didn't take offense.

Let's ALL try to stay on topic.

Thanks.

THX
05-01-2006, 01:26 PM
Id be interested in hearing peoples most memorable moments so we know what to include more of should we do this again.

Puma
05-01-2006, 01:34 PM
Wow, what an event. Black Eagle, you guys rock. I will never miss an event there (or Springfield) if possible. This is going to be a long post, so let me get started.

To Kali- Thank you guys for putting up an outstanding fight. Truly it was amazing to witness two forces of such large sizes go at it as skillfully as we did. To AlphaSix, bravo in leading. To 6mm (whom I ran into more than once) you guys were amazing fighters who were always maneuvering. I can personally think of three times I directly encountered your guys, and that was on both extreme flanks and the second, furthest (from me) village, showing you guys were moving. To Blade, that's right baby, Special Force always work alone ;) .

To the US- What else is there to say? We won. Actually I have a lot. Rangers, I was looking forward to working with ya'll. After two weeks of talking online, getting to know each of you, and even shooting the breeze with you guys for an hour prior to launch, I got switched out. That's the way it happens, and I hold no grudges, but I did miss working with TIMMY! Marines (Third Squad), you guys are great. I had a blast working with you guys all day, even if I was inadvertanly the point man (it's not my fault, I just have long legs). Even though it took us a little bit of a while to figure one and other out, we had it by noon and we were cooking. Hondo, good job leading the squad around and thanks for staying flexible with me always running off talking with locals (I'm just too outgoing for my own good).

Big Papa- Good luck at flight school. Good job as XO this weekend. You were aggressive and smart, staying in touch with who needed to be in touch. It was a pleasure to work with you.

CAR15A2- You are the mack daddy homie. Good job on the plan and execution. As we kept saying prior to the game, plans change. We stuck to ours as much as we could, which was a lot more than I expected. You kept us in step with one another and it wouldn't have worked otherwise. Bravo.

To the roleplayers- It was fun needing to interact with ya'll. To the banker, no, I will never trust you again :p (3 friggin times!) To the Cop, I still don't know why I didn't shoot you. To Suri and Agnes, I really wanted to get to talk to you two. I was going to use as much intel against you guys as I could and darn it, I wanted the insurgents with us. But alas, that was not to happen.

And now for my favorite story of the day:
So after getting pushed back to our forward respawn, our forces start making headway the other way, pushing Kali back. It took violent action, quick thinking, and good communication (there were a couple of times I came very close to being capped by my own players, thank you for verifying you targets). I was able to sneak down the middle, in no mans land (I think), and ambush AlphaSix and his bodyguard at the time. After checking on his point value at the time I went down for being stupid (actually I got shot, but its the same thing). After bleeding out I move back into the same area, and working with a fire team size element moving on my right and iP on my far left (other side of the trail), we work our way up. After watching my friendly fire team on my right take fire, I move into position to flank and successfully take out three enemies who directly engaged them and two more who were just in the way. However, all that to say, I got shot again for being stupid (over confident).

That my friends is why I play airsoft. Leave the crap in the mud of the field. I had fun and I was not the only one.

India
05-01-2006, 01:38 PM
Simulating a foreign language didn't affect my situation much. With the Kalis, it wasn't necessary, and 95% of the time I interacted with the US, there was always a Special Forces guy there. I guess props to the US for seeing the need for interpreters, utilizing their resources, and containing a possible liability!

Funny story though. I don't know russian, but I do know german. I figured it didn't matter since it's all gibberish to english speakers. So the game gets under way, and I spot a US group heading to the bank. I yell "nicht schiezen" and put my arms up. Well just my luck, the first guy to get to me spoke...you guessed it...GERMAN (*cough* IP *cough*). -sigh- So here I am trying to say something that he won't understand and basically I'm just fumbling my way around looking like an idiot. Luckily there was a Special Forces guy with that group, so humiliation only lasted 30 seconds.
:D

Puma
05-01-2006, 02:13 PM
Btw, THX, where will the photos and videos be posted at? You're gallery, forums, here, etc?

red_spetsnaz
05-01-2006, 02:35 PM
Who was it that ran at the troops in the hospital in the very last few minutes of the game yelling "spring pistol"? That was an effin' riot.

Iceman
05-01-2006, 02:47 PM
Spetz, you mean the guy you dusted with my Shotty. Maybe the funniest moment on the field. Come to think of it, some of the funniest moments came at the end when Red was using my shotgun by the hospital. I still can't forget that guy that you were shooting at that couldn't figure out where he was taking fire from. Hilarious. Shotguns lead the way!!!! BTW, Red, anytime I am going to a game and you want to know if I am bringing the *****, just shoot me an email and I will let you know if I am, or so that way I can pack it....

red_spetsnaz
05-01-2006, 03:16 PM
Hooah. Consider it done.

john
05-01-2006, 03:16 PM
xray to answer your question about memorable moments. i think it had to be the role players man!! it's been said by everyone that they enjoyed the role players. And i beleive that adding 3 times the role players next time is giong to be 3 times the fun with 3 times the objectives and confusion. The best part about the civilians or RP was that they were alll diff and all had diff personalities. This was a stroke of genius!

Glaekan. i will say i agree with you. i will also say that everyone should go back and reread your statements. i did.

H

THX
05-01-2006, 03:32 PM
Puma - theres already a couple photos in the Kaliningrad Chronicle mentioned earlier in this thread. We will probably just post any photos in the Black Eagle forums when we get them.

vbtb110
05-01-2006, 03:40 PM
I am torn for my favorite parts-


1st- Me, 3 other Spartans and a few others were holding the hospital for the Kali side, when all of the sudden about 20 U.S. guys composed of (what I saw) iP, 08th EU, and various others. Man that was one helluva firefight


2nd- When the Kali side with about 20 guys was advancing towward the creekbed to find the airplane parts, wow, all I can say is wow. We were taking heavy fire, and moving slowly forward, then all of the sudden Strikers ran through, we rallied behind them, and we pushed back the U.S. team past the creekbed I believe.



These were two of the most intense firefights I have ever seen/been in. Simply amazing. That is why I play airsoft. :)

Son of Liberty
05-01-2006, 03:47 PM
My favorite thing was the Spring Pistol!!! God I was in stitches! Then I tripped over my M14... I love how entusiastic some of you guys were, especially Glaeken. And also, Glaeken that was my Grandfather in the blue shirt and black BDU pants. His name is Ed. To the banker,*or whoever I gave the food too* hey man you owe me for one Peanut Butter Nature Valley breakfast bar! Lol

CAR15A2
05-01-2006, 03:52 PM
My most memorable moments were:

Robbing the bank. I've never done that before.

Getting blown up by a suicide bomber.

Watching my guys capture the Kali CO.

India
05-01-2006, 03:57 PM
Mmmmm that was a good peanut butter bar!

vbtb110
05-01-2006, 03:59 PM
Heh heh, jm I remember me Spartans and a couple Strikers were standing behind your bank as cover and trying to figure out what to do, adn youre like "Im gettin out of here" :D

Puma
05-01-2006, 04:00 PM
So I missed this 'Spring Pistol' incident. What happened?

THX
05-01-2006, 04:06 PM
Puma - theres already a couple photos in the Kaliningrad Chronicle mentioned earlier in this thread. We will probably just post any photos in the Black Eagle forums when we get them.

India
05-01-2006, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by vbtb110
Heh heh, jm I remember me Spartans and a couple Strikers were standing behind your bank as cover and trying to figure out what to do, adn youre like "Im gettin out of here" :D

Yep, I remember that, plus about four other times I had to make a similar emergency evac. My pretzels weren't fast enough though, and made the ultimate sacrifice.

I remember one time, early in the day, where the shopkeeper and I were hanging out at the bank, talking to a Kali soldier, when out of nowhere the Kali guy gets dropped by a burst. Whoever took that shot, Nice aim!!!!

Glaeken
05-01-2006, 04:33 PM
XRay,
This was a great event.
Your storyline was well conceived and with plenty of back-story.

I'm sure that when you [BlackEagle] first decided to host an event that you wanted more than just attack & defend scenarios.
I think you folks excelled in providing good scenarios. Sure, there were choke points and defendable spots, but the objectives required the players to do more than just hold something for 15 mins. or attack arbitrary points.

The role-players were a fine addition. Keep those for your next event.
Someone pointed out that each role player has their own personality. That's the great thing about role-players, there is no 'set' pattern or specific 'script' they follow. Sure, there are 'script' guidelines and lines of thought, but (I'm sure) not verbatim specifics that are set in stone. Things happen as they happen. Their moods change or they may decide, on their own, to act one way or another. Fantastic.
The 'surgeon' lady was super cool! Keep her.

The objectives had a 'layered' effect, meaning that some objectives relied on others to be valid or important.
That's what makes an event, and it's scenarios, memorable. Keep that in for your next event.
You did very well this time....now the fun part for you is to incorporate the results from this game into the next event (if they're related or ongoing).


I personally didn't see the entire field. My missions were, although not completely bound by phase lines, mostly concentrated into a specific sector.
Did everyone notice that the downed aircraft sat in a location that resembled a crash-site? The area 'looked' like the aircraft had knocked down trees and scattered foliage. Well done!
I missed out on whatever the 'landing craft' looked like. So, I can't comment on those things. What I did see, however, showed that you guys didn't just haphazardly throw this thing together.
That alone would make me attend another game you [BlackEagle] host.

The 'Kaliningrad Chronicle' is a real nice touch! Good job. Adding some 'reality' into the aftermath keeps an event history and allows for the ongoing scenario.



I have to hand it to Gertrude. She can appear to be very innocent when she's actually thinking devious thoughts.
Namely, assassinating the spetsnatz 'leader'.

I had just received intel that a small band of 'indigs' were looking for the Spetsnatz 'leader'.
Since I was "running interference" for him, I formed my team into a search party in hopes of finding this small band.
Before we set out on our quest, Gertrude approached asking for the spetsnaz 'leader'. In good faith I holstered my pistol and said "Da, what can I do for you?"
IMMEDIATELY, she pulled a pistol and said "Bang. You're dead, you've been assassinated."
Yikes. That was quick.
Aegis, rushing to my side, quickly drew a 'bead' and demanded her surrender. She complied, of course, but that didn't help heal my wounds. :)

I don't know what became of this or what impact it had on the game or if points were involved. But, if by my small sacrifice, the REAL Spetsnaz leader was spared and points not able to be won then it was worth it.



All in all, the event provided for rather even distribution of force. Everyone had something to do and the 'overlap' created by that is what brought about the fire fights. That is a nice touch. Not specifically creating the time and place for the fight, but allowing the players to determine how and when to apply their firepower.

Keep that concept alive and you'll always have great events.

Kudos.

animal
05-01-2006, 06:36 PM
most of you know me by shadow and black Eagle you guys did a good job.I hope the petty complaining on here after the fact does not keep you from hosting another one.Yes i was on the recieving end of some things and saw a few things did not agree with but it was still a great event a least now i know what being mowed down with a saw feels like.One of my teammates was getting pretty upset about getting shot with a rag on his head but granted we were in the middle of a firefight and a member of IP gave him some very good advice. If you get mad then leave the field for a moment and come back after you cool off. Dont play mad.I think all of us should heed that in the future.

THX
05-01-2006, 07:02 PM
For those of you wanting pics from Black Aurora head over to http://forums.blackeagleairsoft.net/viewtopic.php?t=545

This may take a while with dialup so plan accordingly. These were all grabs from one of our videotapes.

vbtb110
05-01-2006, 07:14 PM
Very nice pictures THX! :D

red_spetsnaz
05-01-2006, 08:12 PM
The 'spring pistol' incident took place about ten minutes before the end of the game. Decoy, Iceman, another 3-color desert, and I were holed up in the hospital hanging out, when a burst cut down Iceman and decoy. The other 3-color desert (I am sorry I forgot your name:( ) Got hit soon after that. I shot two of the three out from behind the plywood that I was sitting behind with the Super 90, when I hear a blood-curtling battle cry followed by the words "SPRING PISTOL!". It kinda happened in slow mo for me as I popped up over the plywood and jacked a shot right into the brave (if not somewhat misguided-hey, join the club, we have jackets!:)) soldier's chest. The next thing you know, everybody is laughing their asses off. After we recovered our composure, we pulled off the farthest sniper shot ever with the super 90, down onto the ravine trail. Man, that made my day.

Talk also about being caught dead in the middle of a battle; at the very beginning, as I was positioned and dead where my fireteam had been pinned (it just so happened to be the least defendable position- also covered by at least two SAWs) I caught one right where it counts. That was my interesting (and painful) moment of the day. I still thought it was hilarious. :) Good job, once again, to everyone!.

Timmy Timmy
05-02-2006, 07:26 AM
I loved the event, I mean after all...... I shot alot of rounds, got to run around (and pay for it for days later), meet new friends, play with old friends, and plainly just be a kid again - if it was only for a day and forget about the real world. The only thing that I didn't like..... was that I.P. shot all of 6mm befor I had my chance. I just got accustomed to shoot'n them like rats in those caves at Bermuda. Well there is always next time. While I am on the subject of "pitching a *****".... I can not understand why the U.S. side didn't want to use my TIMMY TIMMY! as our battle cry? One more thing.... U.S. forces.... practice on how to break ambushes. If Kali had done the ambush right, we would have gotten wiped out in the first two minutes. Kali, all that I can say........ TIMMY TIMMY !!!!!!

gertrude
05-02-2006, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Glaeken

I have to hand it to Gertrude. She can appear to be very innocent when she's actually thinking devious thoughts.
Namely, assassinating the spetsnatz 'leader'.

I had just received intel that a small band of 'indigs' were looking for the Spetsnatz 'leader'.
Since I was "running interference" for him, I formed my team into a search party in hopes of finding this small band.
Before we set out on our quest, Gertrude approached asking for the spetsnaz 'leader'. In good faith I holstered my pistol and said "Da, what can I do for you?"
IMMEDIATELY, she pulled a pistol and said "Bang. You're dead, you've been assassinated."
Yikes. That was quick.
Aegis, rushing to my side, quickly drew a 'bead' and demanded her surrender. She complied, of course, but that didn't help heal my wounds. :)

I don't know what became of this or what impact it had on the game or if points were involved. But, if by my small sacrifice, the REAL Spetsnaz leader was spared and points not able to be won then it was worth it.



What? You weren't the 'real' spetsnaz leader? Oh, man, you should have told me when I was wounded/dead. Mind you, I wasn't looking for the CO of Kali forces, but the Spetsnaz leader in particular.

And I wanted to say 'sorry,' by the way, when Aegis was wounding me with a 'bang bang', I thought I was far enough away at that point that he'd shoot me so I raised my pistol and fired at y'all. Sorry. Hope my aim was bad enough that I missed!

And as for the 'far enough away' thing- I had made up a whole reason as to why I would be looking for the Spetsnaz leader, etc, but when I climbed up there, no one stopped me! Heck, I said "helloah...." .... "HELLOAH...." and then finally I took a few steps and you noticed me. No one disarmed me, asked me what I was doing there... nothing. And then I started to walk away and no one paid any attention to the fact that I was leaving, except Aegis, who seemed pretty surprised that you were dead. I knew I couldn't have run because that would have attracted attention and bb fire, but oh, well. I think this was my favorite moment of the day, as well. Only because virtually no one noticed when it happened.

Oh, and thanks have to go out to whatever Kali forces found me wandering in the woods just out of bounds. I really was lost. Seriously. I'd accidentally taken a wrong turn trying to find the US headquarters (oops, right instead of left) and gone completely around the playing field to the other side. Thanks again for those guys who gave me directions and made sure I didn't get shot.

Son of Liberty
05-02-2006, 10:05 AM
Hey a guy from iP had a camera and I know he got some good pictures. He should post those ones up. And the picture of the banker he has my peanut butter bar!! Those things are uber good.

THX
05-02-2006, 12:16 PM
The mayor also liberated one of those peanut butter bars for the people of Kaliningrad.

THX
05-02-2006, 08:55 PM
I just want to say thank you Black Eagle for inviting me to be a roleplayer in Op: Black Aurora. I was very worried about being a roleplayer as I had never been around crazy Airsofters shooting their guns around me before but it was soo fun and exciting that I couldn't stop talking about it when I got home that night. I even had dreams about Airsoft!
The best moment I had during the event was when I decided that the market wasn't safe because there was soo much crossfire and I decided to jump in the creekbed for safety. I believe it was Loki who was posted behind a skid just down from me who asked if I was ok after we were being fired upon from all directions. I was having soo much fun and had soo much adrenaline pumping that I couldn't help from telling him that that was the best day I have had all year! I also enjoyed pestering people for rubles by shaking my jar and annoying them and making hard bargains with the Strykers on the Kali force. Thank you EVERYONE for making this such a memorable day for me! Congrats to the US forces for a narrow victory and great job Kali!

Aegis
05-02-2006, 09:17 PM
To the banker, i was the Striker who popped in at the start and swore I'd get your money replaced and hunt down those robbers. Then, later in the day, I was the one who got the money to you. :) By the way, i liked your character, good role playing. I actually felt the need to defend you from the evil US forces. lol.

To the surgeon, you're awesome! Thank you!! Krayzie, ED and I were trying to buy power lines, and I had the second half of the payment. The surgeon kept healing Ed, Krayzie and I through our transaction. Being the medic, when I was hit, we were all pretty pooched. I was so thrilled to see her.

Gerty, you were fun to run across during the day. As a mad demonstrator, as an evil assassin, etc. :) You get into your roles. Even if, as a demonstrator, you refuse to listen to logic ( my whole speel about how the US robbed the bank, which causes him to increase interest rates, which negatively impacts the quality of living for your people, whereas we were returning money into your economy and hunting down criminals thing just went compeltely past your character, but hey, that can be true to form). :) As to the bang bang, I am one of very few people who try to sue bang bang within 20 feet all the time. I don't want to hurt people. Thats not what i'm out there for, and whether it is considered safe or not, I still try to avoid it. My weapon chronoed at 304fps. I could probably hold my hand in front of the muzzle and pull the trigger without too much pain. But still, if I can avoid shooting someone unnecessarily, I avoid it. Usually I have fast enough reflexes that I can tell if they are going to honor the bang bang, or if they intend to shoot me even though I tried to surrender them I can usually still fire first or at least dodge their rounds (no, you didn't hit me, thankfully. ;) )

To the organizers, I had a great time, I will definately be back. I did take an inordinately disproportionate amount of fire to the face at this event for some reason. And no it wasn't when I was only showing my face and a weapon for targets. I had an incident where I was shot in the face while standing, in the open, on a ridgetop (no way to miss my raised arms being shiloutted against the sky), with no targets around me, both hands up, my weapon slung, and a red rag draped over my helmet and goggles, on the side of a trail. Immediately after my partner took a burst to the face, and similarly took a defensive stance and red rag, and then recieved the exact same treatment. And then I took a few more rounds to the face while concurrently yelling hit. Not a single hit to any other part of my body. That, I can't explain. *shrugs* I will definately back up Decoy in this regard. I have been to a lot of events, but I have never seen so many face shots, nor have I recieved so many, especially in situations like the one i just described. I have no idea why. I wasn't yelling at anyone, I wasn't cheating anyone out of their hits, I didn't call anyone out. I didn't do anything that could have pissed anyone off enough to warrant a retaliatory attack like that. So I'm quite confused over that one. And it had to be intentional, I don't care what anyone says about it. Did I get pissed off? No, I covered my face. lol. Then I politely asked a ref if I could move before my 5 minutes were up because I was still taking fire.

I don't aim for skin. I try not to hurt people. Look at gerty's post above. I was well within my right to shoot her. We had a good distance between us, and my weapon was just barely shooting over 300fps. But I chose not to fire. Thats the type of person I am. I get in more arguements with people over being pissed off ebcause I didn't shoot them because I was afraid I'd hurt them. It was never an arguement over whether it should be honored, because I usually only do it when I have the drop, dead to rights, on a person, by complete and total surprise, from the rear or side. People in airsoft for some reason, don't like to be surrendered. Its like, some, macho BS thing. They want to go down being shot, rather than being surrendered, because its more of a manly death (insert idiotic man grunt here). I, being the generally accepted emergency responder for most events around here, perfer not to hurt people whenever possible.

So I am confused about that more than upset. *shrugs* Does it detract from my day? Hell no. I still had a good time. I took a lot of really great memories with me from this event, from the role playing, from the battles, for the comraderie, etc. I always like seeing my friends, and old aquaintences. I applaud when someone gets me good, and I like to go down to friends. Being overrun by a squad of enemy combatants who I know outside the event, sitting there with my red rag on, as they move past, smiling and joking and congratulating them on their push, that is a good time for me. Watching them move through, and just taking that second to congratulate them on a good push, I think that reminds everyone out there that we may be on opposite sides, but i still like them. I don't think of people out there as enemies.

What I would want to see for the second incarnation of this event is continued role playing, perhaps even expanded. Keep the good stuff alive here. Do I think we need more refs? I don't want to say that. I want to say that I feel I can reasonably put my trust in these people I consider friends without the need for having a referee hanging around. I liked the multiple objectives, and I'd like to see the results of this event play into the start of the enxt one somehow. :)

Good job. :)

And yes, Gleaken, I compeltely support and endorse the concepts you've outlined here.

Oh, and Timmy Timmy? There were 4 of us at the "ambush" at the start of the event, against your ENTIRE force. We had some confusion over event boundaries, compounded by mistaken understanding of a description passed on by an event ref, and beleived we were set up along the primary path your people would take to flood into our territory. We weren't trying to ambush your force. If we had tried to ambush a running force of 50 people properly, with AEG's, 1) we're not idiots, and we know that half the reason people know they are hit is from hearing the hits not feeling them. A running force of 50 isn't going to hear squat. What would you have us do? Ambush something we know isn't going to feel/hear their hits and result in our positions being given away and overrun within seconds? Its not an issue of expecting you'all to cheat, its an issue of being smart enough to realise what the highest probablity of slowing you down enough to hear/feel our rounds was and taking that initiative. Getting pissed off in the first two mintues of a game ebcause we properly shot an entire moving force of 50, and having maybe ten of them call it (because the others simply didn't feel it), is a good way to get bent out of shape quickly and launch an event on the wrong foot.

Airsoft isn't real life, and you need to take these kinds of things into consideration. People who are running, hard and fast, do not feel their hits. Its not cheating, its just honest adrenaline. So how about you not be so disparaging with your comments without stopping to consider why things might have been done the way they were?

Secondly, we were not trying to ambush the entire force. Were it real life, sure, we could have killed every single person there. But its not real life, its airsoft. Its never gonna happen in airsoft unelss you can get 30 people to surrender. Not likely. People won't feel it. People won't expect it. people won't hear it. Expecting something like that to work is rediculous.

No, our actual job was much much simpler. We were simply to slow you down. Thats it. Our job was to shoot on sight, cause panic and disarray, make your well thought our squad operations go jumbled when all of a sudden fire came from nowhere and no all the squads are broken up with their people ducked down randomly and seperated. Force you to cancel all of your well laid start plans to hastily form a response to an unknown number of entrenched enemy fighters, and hopefully, the confusion created, followed by the secondary issuance of new orders, would cause even more slowing within your ranks as people tried to recover after the contact and remember what it was they were supposed to be doing.

And, by the way, it worked perfectly. Only 4 of us slowed down your entire force for a good 5 minutes, which was more than what our main force needed to take their primary objectives without contest and grab strategic positioning. ;)

So, anyway, I felt I needed to address that. It seemed as if you were assuming our intentions were something else, and that we had failed in those intentions somehow, or that we had done something wrong, which was compeltely untrue, and I couldn't let that slide. ;)

I had a great tiem at the op. Several fun memories. Charging an enemy line knowingly with a dead battery aeg to draw fire for my partner with his pistol to get a couple rounds off at the bad guys while shaking my gun to pretend it was firing (some people actually ducked!!). My partner and I pulling pistols and taking point on a charge against enemy positions down a trail. Running around with literally no weapons as an unarmed medic, trying to keep people alive under heavy fire. Negotiating with Koreans. Making promises to villagers. It was a good time.

Thank you. :)

xray
05-03-2006, 06:42 AM
I'm glad to see that people had a good time at our event. I'm glad to hear the feedback and hope that maybe by all of us communicate with each other to fix the problems on the field. The main point is to have fun and step up to the challenges of the event holders give us at their event. I think that you all have points, and I do appericate the threads. Thanks to all of you again and hope to see you guys soon.

Timmy Timmy
05-03-2006, 08:05 AM
Aegis. I was trying to give you a pat on the back!!!!!!! Good job sort of thing. Your delaying action in the military relm, is called an ambush! To have four of you pull that off was very cool and even though I was on the wrong end of that ambush... I loved it! If it was not for the actions of myself and the rest of 7th. R.A.I.D. and a couple stragglers, things would have been real bad for the U.S. forces. About 10 of us got hit in that, alot of the shots were high(just F.Y.I). It seems to me that every time a person gets shot at like that they drop for cover. The Marine Corps told us that was a bad idea and they were right. You lay down maxium fire power and charge the ambush. So to keep this from turning into a pissing contest.... good job on the ambush!!! Maybe next time I will get to return the favor. Timmy Timmy!

Timmy Timmy
05-03-2006, 08:12 AM
P.S. That was funny on the Kali side of the hill when you ran down with no battery. I was woundering what the hell you were doing. I hope that I didn't overshot you too much, thanks for the laugh. Timmy Timmy!

Aegis
05-04-2006, 09:34 PM
LOL. Dude, don't even worry about shooting me. Its a game where people get shot, and I'm not going to get upset over getting shot while doing something that is deserving of being shot! :)

Yeah, charging enemy lines with a dead battery is kinda funny. Umn. yeah. ROFL.

I got hit just as much as I should have. ;)

A LOT. :D

oh, and no pissing contest. It was just hard to read where you were going with that post. The lines of intention and sarcasm are thin on forums, and rather than try to discern intent which may or may not have been the correct interpretation, i decided just to respond to the stated words. My intention was to clarify our position, and why we launched in the manner we had. Nothing else. No offense taken. None intended on delivery. ;)

I have a legal background, and as such, ambiguity doesn't sit well with me. Neither does misinterpretation, or leaving things 'hanging'. So I reponded to clarify on the point you made, nothing more. :)

THX
05-25-2006, 03:32 PM
The official Operation: Black Aurora video is now available for your viewing pleasure at:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2981774127155881547

This was compiled from footage taken at the day of the event from various cameras.

vbtb110
05-25-2006, 03:36 PM
Wow, amazing video! Good job BlackEagle!

Son of Liberty
05-25-2006, 03:52 PM
It's all U.S. no Kali! Nice video though

THX
05-25-2006, 03:58 PM
Look closer - Theres Kali in that video. They are talking to the mayor, speaking with the militsia in the Square about getting the electric back on, etc.

THX
06-04-2006, 03:33 PM
We've posted a bunch more pics from Op: Black Aurora taken by the imbedded US photographer Sean Murphy. Sean has taken some REALLY great pictures and they are high quality!

http://gallery.blackeagleairsoft.net/main.php

vbtb110
06-04-2006, 04:13 PM
AWESOME pics! :D

THX
06-05-2006, 07:51 AM
Ive barely got half of the ones he sent me up so far. Ill be working on the rest for the next couple days.

Lu
06-05-2006, 09:59 PM
35 pages of pics. That is awesome. Thank you for putting them up, and for the Photographer for working the field that day.

Miyagi
06-05-2006, 10:13 PM
Another great addition to your great OP!!!!!!

THX
06-05-2006, 11:08 PM
There are even more to come.

THX
06-07-2006, 08:46 PM
All 327 photos taken at OP: Black Aurora have finally been posted. Enjoy.

http://gallery.blackeagleairsoft.net/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=340&g2_navId=x899c2aef

THX
07-19-2006, 02:10 PM
Although not enabled in a viewer, all pics from Black Aurora are available for viewing/download at our new URL.

http://www.taskforceblackeagle.net/images/blackaurora/

vbtb110
07-19-2006, 03:08 PM
The pictures look VERY nice! Good Job!

PS, when will we be expecting a Black Aurora 2?


;)

THX
07-19-2006, 03:45 PM
With as much work as it was we may have to make that an annual event but we will see.